'21 Generation 7 Car news

Hawaii808

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They only are allowed 12 chassis this year per car and some teams had well over a hundred before that rule. I don't think it will be that big a task
12 chassis for the whole season? What happens when a team has a run of bad luck and runs through the chassis? Is the design built to be (relatively) easy to repair?

Could you imagine a certain retired drivers fortune with this rule?
 

StandOnIt

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I screwed up, they have 12 active chassis and 4 inactive for a total of 16

NASCAR will track use on chassis for 2020. A total of 16 chassis are allowed for each car number, 12 active and 4 inactive.
-Each car number will be allowed a maximum of 12 certified chassis designated as “active” at any given time. There was previously no limit. Each vehicle number will also be allowed to retain four chassis designated as “inactive,” set aside for future use.
-Chassis can be de-certified or retired only after use in a minimum of three races or if damage from a crash is deemed irreparable. Chassis designated for the preseason Clash exhibition race at Daytona International Speedway will not count against a car number’s active allotment, unless that chassis is also used in the Daytona 500.

https://racingnews.co/2019/10/02/2020-nascar-rules-announced/
 
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Charlie Spencer

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So they've already chosen a chassis constructor, just haven't announced it yet.

From what Knaus and St. Hilaire said it does sound like there's a big concern dollars-wise in junking everything Gen-6 and then building up an entirely new fleet. Long term budgets sound much more reasonable though.
Could they phase the new car in? Require it on plates, R/Cs , and short tracks the first year, and the 1.5s and 2s the following year?
 

StandOnIt

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What Chad is probably fretting about is about all the data they have gathered on the Gen 6 car that is mostly worthless for use on the new gen car and the rumors of layoffs in the shop because of reduced manpower needed with standardized parts like the chassis.. St. Hilaire in the article wasn't concerned about the cost involved or building an entire new fleet. In fact, what he said below is that he is pleased with the progress on the car and it is UNDER budget

“NASCAR and the teams are doing the right thing, and I think that summer timeline is the right time that we’ll need that car.”

Not much is yet known on who the suppliers will be. St. Hilaire offered that the process is still being worked out on “a ton of things. Things like the chassis and certain parts and pieces have been awarded, which has been good, and we’re under budget as of now, so that’s always a good thing. We saw a big number in the beginning, but a lot of things coming in is a lot less than what we initially anticipated, so that’s good to see. I think everything is going to come out pretty good.”

https://racer.com/2020/02/07/cup-teams-weigh-the-challenges-of-next-gen-preparations/
 

StandOnIt

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I'll remember I had my doubts about the statement "they won't be building the actual chassis"
yeah I have read many articles that hinted Dallara was going to build the chassis, and on the other hand heard Nascar was taking bids on building the chassis. I think this clears that part up at least.
 

wi_racefan

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I think it's the only way it can be done and keep the playing field level

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StandOnIt

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I think it's the only way it can be done and keep the playing field level

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yeah and Dallara could have done that, but it isn't happening for some reason. I think it is because going with multiple chassis builders the price will be lower and they can also supply a lot of chassis in a short time. Nobody has said multiple chassis builders though, it could just be one manufacturer awarded the contract from a bid.
 

Charlie Spencer

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Multiple builders offers a backup in case one has a quality or production issue. This is a series that has one of the largest fields and longest schedules. There's enough demand to support at least two builders.
 

StandOnIt

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Multiple builders offers a backup in case one has a quality or production issue. This is a series that has one of the largest fields and longest schedules. There's enough demand to support at least two builders.
That is why I guessed at having multiple builders when there really hasn't been much said about it. They are talking about having multiple cars to test this summer so something has to happen pretty quick if it hasn't already.
 

StandOnIt

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This is my marketing guy thinking here...perhaps the lack of info on the builders and car details is meant to prevent all that from taking attention away from this years racing. The old “look here, not there”.
yeah for sure, the press hasn't been invited to any of the tests so far, a few photo's have leaked out and some fans have shot some very amateurish videos of track time. That's about it
 

jws926

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This is my marketing guy thinking here...perhaps the lack of info on the builders and car details is meant to prevent all that from taking attention away from this years racing. The old “look here, not there”.
The ole famous "slight of hand" tactic .
 

Mispeedway15

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Multiple builders offers a backup in case one has a quality or production issue. This is a series that has one of the largest fields and longest schedules. There's enough demand to support at least two builders.
Yeah we do this at Honda all the time. Stamping presses always go down at suppliers which causes component shortages down the line. It’s why when awarding business we fan out what company gets what
 

Kiante

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New article featuring David Wilson of TRD:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a30982374/engine-manufacturers-want-nascar-to-go-hybrid/
Some points:
Wilson told us that Toyota and the other OEMs are in the “way early days” of discussing engine regulations for the series. In fact, there hasn't been a decision by the OEMs or NASCAR yet that there will even be a new engine.
And even if there is a decision on a new engine, Wilson said, whatever they go with is not likely to be production-based.
The problem with using production engines in NASCAR, Wilson said, is that if the series moved in that direction it would also have to introduce Balance of Performance (BoP). According to Wilson, BoP is a four-letter word in the NASCAR garage.
When they do decide to build a next generation engine, Wilson predicts that it will likely be a more modern design while sticking to a single rule set for all OEMs. Some of these changes could include moving to an aluminum engine block with an overhead cam arrangement and direct injection. This would be a huge departure from the current iron block pushrod engine. While it would not be production based, it would implement more current technology seen on production cars.
... implementing a hybrid for the Cup series has been how the system will work on tracks with minimal braking, since that would impact battery regen. Wilson said that he only sees the hybrid being deployed for about half the tracks on the schedule because of the lack of braking.
Wilson sees road courses and short tracks as the real application for the technology as they want to be able to make good use of the technology.
He states that they are in the early days of developing this technology but that he sees a tactical deployment of the tech for certain situations and that it could add a whole new element to the race strategy and to the entertainment from a fan perspective.
Along those lines, he believes that a 90 to 95 kilowatt system would do the job. That metric roughly converts to something in the 120 to 130 horsepower range from the electric system.
One of the strategies Wilson liked for the electrification would be a “push to pass” system.
But for NASCAR, while the Next Gen car promises a lot of change for entrant, the teams can have some comfort knowing that they won’t have to invest in new engines right away.
The push-to-pass is a headscratcher. For me, at least. Cost effective self-deploying system would be much better for ovals, that way the hybrid tech can be used more often than not.
 

FLRacingFan

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New article featuring David Wilson of TRD:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a30982374/engine-manufacturers-want-nascar-to-go-hybrid/
Some points:

The push-to-pass is a headscratcher. For me, at least. Cost effective self-deploying system would be much better for ovals, that way the hybrid tech can be used more often than not.
That’s a pretty powerful ERS. Damn.

The philosophy behind wanting more short tracks and road/street courses makes even more sense then. More applicability for the hybrid and then the idea to showcase it in major metro areas is in the same vein as Formula E.
 

Acs

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... implementing a hybrid for the Cup series has been how the system will work on tracks with minimal braking, since that would impact battery regen. Wilson said that he only sees the hybrid being deployed for about half the tracks on the schedule because of the lack of braking.
He can't possibly be that naive. Lack of braking is no object to the engineers at Ford, Chevy and Toyota. As long as the infrastructure is allowed on the cars I can guarantee you they'll find a way to recharge the battery even at Talladega.
 

Ventisca

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He can't possibly be that naive. Lack of braking is no object to the engineers at Ford, Chevy and Toyota. As long as the infrastructure is allowed on the cars I can guarantee you they'll find a way to recharge the battery even at Talladega.
Pinwheels? Solar? Driver methane recovery system?
 

Charlie Spencer

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He can't possibly be that naive. Lack of braking is no object to the engineers at Ford, Chevy and Toyota. As long as the infrastructure is allowed on the cars I can guarantee you they'll find a way to recharge the battery even at Talladega.
The word 'deployed' to me implies the system won't even be present on the cars taken to minimal-braking tracks.
 

NASCAR Apologist

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Half a year of multi-car testing...last-minute. Ok.

Center-lock wheels are happening, btw. Mr. France recently told a prominent team owner to shove it when they went off in a meeting about the audacity of moving away from the five-lug design.
 

Formerjackman

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Half a year of multi-car testing...last-minute. Ok.

Center-lock wheels are happening, btw. Mr. France recently told a prominent team owner to shove it when they went off in a meeting about the audacity of moving away from the five-lug design.

All I can tell you is that I were running this project, I would want at least 6-8 of these cars on the track no later than Mid-May. They could pick a variety of tracks and bring in the teams needed a day early before the races there and at the VERY least, have all the cars make at least one simulated fuel run in a mock race. Assuming no major complications pop up, by Mid-September at the latest everybody would have their final specs and car and component building could begin in earnest. As for the center lock wheels, that's an absolute non-starter as far as I'm concerned. All they are trying to do is eliminate another skill position so they don't have to pay for real talent. When it comes to the over the wall guys, I'm going to side with them nearly every time.
 

StandOnIt

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As for the center lock wheels, that's an absolute non-starter as far as I'm concerned. All they are trying to do is eliminate another skill position so they don't have to pay for real talent. When it comes to the over the wall guys, I'm going to side with them nearly every time.
Curious to know how a position would be eliminated
 

Formerjackman

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Curious to know how a position would be eliminated
Not a position, the skill required to do the job. Any warm body can change single lock wheels. Have you watched an IMSA race lately? Actually, with single lock wheels, it wouldn't be out of the question to eliminate tire carriers altogether.
 

StandOnIt

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I'd like to see 5-lug wheels remain; it's one of the few remaining things that's close to production vehicles. On the other hand, a change to center locks isn't going to cause me to stop following the sport.
Problems I see is that with only on nut instead of five, wouldn't that increase the odds of wheels coming off or cross threads with only one nut would put a car behind the wall. More mistake free skill I would think would be required
 

Formerjackman

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It doesn't seem to be an issue in other series that run that way.
I've seen more wheels come off cars with single lock wheels than I have ever seen with 5 lugs. At the 1987 Indy 500, one was punted into the grandstands by another car and it killed a spectator.
 

NASCAR Apologist

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All I can tell you is that I were running this project, I would want at least 6-8 of these cars on the track no later than Mid-May. They could pick a variety of tracks and bring in the teams needed a day early before the races there and at the VERY least, have all the cars make at least one simulated fuel run in a mock race. Assuming no major complications pop up, by Mid-September at the latest everybody would have their final specs and car and component building could begin in earnest. As for the center lock wheels, that's an absolute non-starter as far as I'm concerned. All they are trying to do is eliminate another skill position so they don't have to pay for real talent. When it comes to the over the wall guys, I'm going to side with them nearly every time.
There are four full weeks' worth of testing with Next Gen, including a little over two weeks of multi-car testing. If anything is glaringly wrong with the componentry during single-car testing they'll have time to work on it. Once August and September hit they'll be logging so many damn miles of pack running they'll know everything they need to fairly quickly in order to get it addressed for February. The test program is about as extensive as can be.
 

Formerjackman

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There are four full weeks' worth of testing with Next Gen, including a little over two weeks of multi-car testing. If anything is glaringly wrong with the componentry during single-car testing they'll have time to work on it. Once August and September hit they'll be logging so many damn miles of pack running they'll know everything they need to fairly quickly in order to get it addressed for February. The test program is about as extensive as can be.
At how many tracks?
 
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