23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Charlie Spencer said:
I've also heard of the Kardashians. Those are the kind of 'cultural icons' that render the phrase meaningless.
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I’ve heard of the Kardashians but I don’t know how many of them there are or what they do or why they would be cultural icons. I’ve heard of Taylor Swift but that was mainly seeing her at Chiefs games. Maybe I should get out more🤣
 
StandOnIt said:
Contrary to certain beliefs here at R-F, Big Bill France said publicity is publicity. So some of ya can go mess in your pants about it, but I agree with the late Bill France. Publicity is publicity.
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I’ve heard it said that there is no such thing as bad publicity and you should only be worried when they stop talking about you.
 
MJ might have been the GOAT at basketball, but his managing sports teams record is lackluster (at best). He had a failed superbike team that managed1 win in 10 years, his time managing the wizards was a disaster (to put it mildly) and his 423-600 record for owning the hornets isn't very impressive.
 
wi_racefan said:
MJ might have been the GOAT at basketball, but his managing sports teams record is lackluster (at best). He had a failed superbike team that managed1 win in 10 years, his time managing the wizards was a disaster (to put it mildly) and his 423-600 record for owning the hornets isn't very impressive.
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And Jordan has Hamlin making decisions for him here. Good luck with that. Rolled right into a lawsuit. Hamlin can't believe it costs so much money to be a team owner. Oh buddy, wait until you start paying those lawyer bills. It costs like hell to get someone in court to call them a S.O.B. if you even get there. Hamlin should have stuck to his pod cast.
 
wi_racefan said:
Lets be honest it wasn't really from scratch. It was a 5th JGR team. Equipment and people were supplied by TRD/JGR
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It still kind of is. They have competition meetings together, but you don't hear a peep out of sold out Joe about this charter contract dispute thing. Hamlin and Jordan are on their own on that deal.
 
jaqua19 said:
"he's not that significant to me like any other celebrity, but I do know he's MASSIVELY famous and important to pop culture, even if he isn't to me."
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Nope, not a clue. If asked before last month, I'd lump him in with Tom Brady, Lewis Hamilton, David Beckham, and Rafael Nadal*. I have close to zero interaction with pop culture, and haven't for a couple of decades. Heck, I don't even know where the people I listed rank these days, just that they were the top names in their sports at one time. But apparently he's in a league with Taylor Swift, although I'd put her in her own class.

*In attempting to come up with that list, I realized I can't name a single MLB player, maybe only a handful of NFL, and no NBA beyond Lebron James**

** He is still playing, right?
 
StandOnIt said:
And Jordan has Hamlin making decisions for him here. Good luck with that. Rolled right into a lawsuit. Hamlin can't believe it costs so much money to be a team owner. Oh buddy, wait until you start paying those lawyer bills. It costs like hell to get someone in court to call them a S.O.B. if you even get there. Hamlin should have stuck to his pod cast.
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I will guess that most of Hamlin’s decision making input is on the racing operations side. The man has a lot of Cup Series experience … and wins.

Hamlin doesn’t get handed the microphone for commentary on the lawsuit.
 
aunty dive said:
Hamlin doesn’t get handed the microphone for commentary on the lawsuit.
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Nah.
www.newsweek.com

Denny Hamlin Reveals Personal Motivation Behind NASCAR Lawsuit

Denny Hamlin reveals his personal motivations behind a federal antitrust lawsuit challenging NASCAR's monopoly.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
www.newsweek.com

Denny Hamlin Complains To NASCAR: 'Took Away All Of Our Rights!'

Denny Hamlin criticizes NASCAR for stripping teams of their rights in a lawsuit challenging unfair terms in the charter agreement.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
Quoted from the first above article Denny said "For myself personally, I've invested a lot back into this sport to help put on NASCAR's show. All I've asked them from the very beginning is show me an avenue where I can get that investment back. I'm not looking to bank a bunch of money or anything like that. Just show me a way that investment can be recouped, and I've not seen that yet."

Then I have to ask why would you buy another charter and expand if it is so bad
 
Whiskyb said:
Quoted from the first above article Denny said "For myself personally, I've invested a lot back into this sport to help put on NASCAR's show. All I've asked them from the very beginning is show me an avenue where I can get that investment back. I'm not looking to bank a bunch of money or anything like that. Just show me a way that investment can be recouped, and I've not seen that yet."

Then I have to ask why would you buy another charter and expand if it is so bad
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Lets not let facts get in the way of a good argument.....
 
I had to Google chuck yeag
Formerjackman said:
Funny you should mention Chuck Yeager. Certainly a hero of mine and perhaps the most iconic pilot in history, but I was talking to a late 20's parts salesman that I have gotten to know fairly well the other day, and he had not the first clue who Chuck Yeager was. Sad, but true. I showed him one of Chuck's old ACDelco commercials on Youtube, and neither the name or the face rang a bell.
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I'm in my mid 40s and had no idea who chuck Yeager was.
 
Daytripper said:
I had to Google chuck yeag


I'm in my mid 40s and had no idea who chuck Yeager was.
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It's a decent example of how time changes many celebrities. Yeager is a line maybe more in some school books, but at the time he was the point of the spear in the science of space travel and not just sport fans but almost every American knew who he was.
 
Whiskyb said:
Quoted from the first above article Denny said "For myself personally, I've invested a lot back into this sport to help put on NASCAR's show. All I've asked them from the very beginning is show me an avenue where I can get that investment back. I'm not looking to bank a bunch of money or anything like that. Just show me a way that investment can be recouped, and I've not seen that yet."

Then I have to ask why would you buy another charter and expand if it is so bad
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I wasn't aware NASCAR was responsible for guaranteeing return on investment.
 
StandOnIt said:
It's a decent example of how time changes many celebrities. Yeager is a line maybe more in some school books, but at the time he was the point of the spear in the science of space travel and not just sport fans but almost every American knew who he was.
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Sadly on the other side of the coin we have people who believe we didn't go to the moon, the earth is flat, and our government can control the weather. :idunno:
 
Daytripper said:
I had to Google chuck yeag


I'm in my mid 40s and had no idea who chuck Yeager was.
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And people wonder why us older folks rag on modern education so much. I have absolutely no idea what they teach in school nowadays, because every time I have a conversation with someone under 40, they don't seem to know much of anything about anything unless it's TV or a some computer game. I started learning American history at about age five , mostly thanks to my mom, and have never stopped. The very first book I ever bought at the school book fair in second grade was a paperback on the Battle of Midway.
 
Formerjackman said:
Funny you should mention Chuck Yeager. Certainly a hero of mine and perhaps the most iconic pilot in history, but I was talking to a late 20's parts salesman that I have gotten to know fairly well the other day, and he had not the first clue who Chuck Yeager was. Sad, but true. I showed him one of Chuck's old ACDelco commercials on Youtube, and neither the name or the face rang a bell.
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I think my error with underestimating MJ’s popularity is my age group. Also I’m like Charlie as I don’t follow or know what is happening with pop culture.

I was recently sitting around a table that included a few younger people. I made a reference about Jimmy Hoffa and they had not even heard the name. Chuck Yeager sure was a hero and very brave man.
 
wi_racefan said:
MJ might have been the GOAT at basketball, but his managing sports teams record is lackluster (at best). He had a failed superbike team that managed1 win in 10 years, his time managing the wizards was a disaster (to put it mildly) and his 423-600 record for owning the hornets isn't very impressive.
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I’m so out of it I was unaware of MJ’s NBA ownership. I still think of Washington’s NBA team as the Bullets 😅
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Nope, not a clue. If asked before last month, I'd lump him in with Tom Brady, Lewis Hamilton, David Beckham, and Rafael Nadal*. I have close to zero interaction with pop culture, and haven't for a couple of decades. Heck, I don't even know where the people I listed rank these days, just that they were the top names in their sports at one time. But apparently he's in a league with Taylor Swift, although I'd put her in her own class.

*In attempting to come up with that list, I realized I can't name a single MLB player, maybe only a handful of NFL, and no NBA beyond Lebron James**

** He is still playing, right?
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I can name MLB players like 2 of my favorite catchers Thurman Munson & Carlton Fisk. No one could throw a ball from the plate to 2nd base like Fisk!
 
Whiskyb said:
Quoted from the first above article Denny said "For myself personally, I've invested a lot back into this sport to help put on NASCAR's show. All I've asked them from the very beginning is show me an avenue where I can get that investment back. I'm not looking to bank a bunch of money or anything like that. Just show me a way that investment can be recouped, and I've not seen that yet."

Then I have to ask why would you buy another charter and expand if it is so bad
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Let me explain this quote by Hambone. What he really means is …”I’ve always wanted to be really BIG, and I see my buddy MJ who’s as BIG as it gets, so I talked him into buying into NASCAR with me, cause I want to be a B I G racing enterprise owner! Now, we had to buy expensive charters, but heck, they were bound to be worth a LOT more when I’ve finished racing…and of course I wanted TO BUILD the BEST FANCIEST RACING OPERATION MONEY COULD BUY, so I BORROWED A CRAP LOAD OF MONEY AGAINST MY BANK ACCOUNT, MY MASSIVE HOME, AND THE PROJECTED FUTURE VALUE OF THOSE CHARTERS! So NASCAR cannot just TAKE THAT FROM ME 😭, cause without those, I am UNDERWATER 😳.”

Hamcrap is all about him, his legacy, his desires. He’s a classic narcissist.
 
I'm 38 and know who Chuck Yeager is, but had no idea he was a spokesman for AC Delco. Really cool. I'm glad someone uploaded the commercials on YouTube
 
Conover said:
Let me explain this quote by Hambone. What he really means is …”I’ve always wanted to be really BIG, and I see my buddy MJ who’s as BIG as it gets, so I talked him into buying into NASCAR with me, cause I want to be a B I G racing enterprise owner! Now, we had to buy expensive charters, but heck, they were bound to be worth a LOT more when I’ve finished racing…and of course I wanted TO BUILD the BEST FANCIEST RACING OPERATION MONEY COULD BUY, so I BORROWED A CRAP LOAD OF MONEY AGAINST MY BANK ACCOUNT, MY MASSIVE HOME, AND THE PROJECTED FUTURE VALUE OF THOSE CHARTERS! So NASCAR cannot just TAKE THAT FROM ME 😭, cause without those, I am UNDERWATER 😳.”

Hamcrap is all about him, his legacy, his desires. He’s a classic narcissist.
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We've now hit the part of this discussion where the junior college psychologists hit the ground running. Good grief, how can you someone even remotely think this is true without even having a conversation with that person? So, Dennis flaunts his money, good for him. I'd have my own helicopter pad if I had that kind of money... God bless him.
 
wi_racefan said:
MJ might have been the GOAT at basketball, but his managing sports teams record is lackluster (at best). He had a failed superbike team that managed1 win in 10 years, his time managing the wizards was a disaster (to put it mildly) and his 423-600 record for owning the hornets isn't very impressive.
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He’s got a pretty good shot at being a championship winning car owner this season. So I say he’s doing pretty good for himself as an owner in NASCAR, compared to those he didn’t do so good at.
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
But does he actually bring anyone with him? Can it be documented? (Same questions regarding Pitbull, by the way.)

I confess I've never understood this effect. If Matt Kenseth, Jimmy Buffett, and David Attenborough had bought a basketball team, I wouldn't have given it a first glance. Are there that many of Jordan's fans that haven't already been exposed to motorsports enough to have formed an opinion?
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I'm sure it could. The effect you're describing is people being invested enough in one person who is particularly good at what they are known for deciding to jump ship and try something new... and usually those who are invested in said individual for whatever reason will follow. As you're getting at though, personal preference plays a part too. I take it you're not a basketball fan and that even Matt Kenseth couldn't convince you to become one. :p
 
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