Maybe they can do like Nascar did. Get off their privileged asses, create a car, find and use tracks that others own to race on like Nascar did. Novel Idea I know in these days and times.
23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement
- Thread starter Blaze
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Blaze
The Midnight Rider
They arent many Tracks ready for a big stock car series they dont own. They would have to basically race on small tracks that aren't up to good enough safety standards for a stock car series that could be on the level of NASCAR.
Maybe this will sway you, think if their monopoly was broken up, and someone could actually one day start a competive series, maybe then we could get a damn good points system that's not the joke that you constantly bitch that it is. Because if some other series comes along, does that, gains momentum, and NASCAR is still using some sort of playoff BS, maybe it makes NASCAR adapt.
I'm guessing a lot of them, but no one has filed a lawsuit over it.
Pretty much shows the insanity. Trying to set a precedent that most of the Auto racing series are momosponies.... And we need trebble damages because we have been harmed.
virtualbalboa
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In order to file a lawsuit, you have to first have suffered damages as a result of the actor you are suing since that is the purpose of bringing a civil suit. The average person doesn't qualify. Those who might qualify to sue such a company generally have reason not to do so and/or they don't meet the criteria.
wi_racefan
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Am I missing something here and does SMI have a contract to only hold nascar stock car races?
That's what 12 major tracks that anyone can run at right?
That's what 12 major tracks that anyone can run at right?
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
No contract, but NASCAR could easily prevent it from just saying they would pull races from them.
11 tracks SMI owns. One of which isn't active(Kentucky) so basically 10 tracks. Charlotte is basically NASCAR's home, so i doubt they would work with a competitor. So we're down to 9. So if all tracks had 2 races we're looking at an 18 race maybe 20 if I'm wrong about Charlotte. But that's also assuming they would work with another stock car organization.
NASCAR being able to use any sort of power to do that, is what makes it a monopoly.
wi_racefan
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So this is all based on the potential of a possible threat? Boy that sounds thin.
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
Well if NASCAR would never do it, what would be so bad about ruling they couldn't? I mean if it wouldn't change anything on how they would handle the situation then its no big deal, correct? Or do we have to let them do what they want, and just hope they won't do it?
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^ If 2 sausages were sitting in a frying pan discussing The Sherman act, it would sound something like this.
Cooked sausages, naturally.
Cooked sausages, naturally.
Blaze
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I thank you for your valuable input.
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I wear my welding jacket to fry sausages.
Wasn't there an issue within the last couple of years regarding the CARS tour not running at Rockingham because of NASCAR markings around the track?
Didn't my English teacher tell me to not use run-on sentences?
You may want to change brands of sausages.
wi_racefan
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If it is an issue then why do they run the same week as cup at North Wilkesboro?
I was asking a question. I can't answer yours until someone answers mine.
virtualbalboa
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It was one of the vintage series IIRC and they wound up at the smaller track instead as a result of NASCAR throwing a fit.
Naitch
Reads history books
Four bros who are totally unrelated to NASCAR.
LewTheShoe
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@Blaze is wrong, I believe. I am almost 100% certain that Nascar's sanction agreement includes a clause that the host track cannot also host a non-Nascar stock car race in the same year, unless Nascar grants special permission to do so.
This contractual prohibition is relevant to the lawsuit in several ways, IMO. First, it's an example of Nascar's enormous power over other members of the racing community being used to stifle competition. Do any other sanction agreements include such an extraordinary provision?
Second, Nascar's exclusionary clause specifies stock cars but makes no mention of Indycar, F1, sports cars, motocross, or sprint cars... because these various forms of racing are not part of Nascar's market, which is premier-level stock car racing.
That is from the previous contract. This below is from the current one
“The provision was expanded upon in the 2025 charter agreement. … teams with 2025 Charter Agreements are now prohibited from participating in any ‘automobile or truck racing’ series not sanctioned by NASCAR.”
I think the clause @LewTheShoe mentioned refers to host tracks, not teams.
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
Thanks for the correction
LewTheShoe
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Charlie, I posted from general knowledge having observed many discussions of the sancring agreements over the years. However, it is also discussed in 23XI & FRM's original fijing of the lawsuit in 2024, widely reported including...
23XI, FRM lawsuit accuses NASCAR of ‘unlawful monopolization’ | RACER
23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports have jointly filed an antitrust lawsuit against NASCAR and its CEO Jim France. It was filed Wednesday morning in the Western District of North Carolina. The suit alleges NASCAR and its leadership have used anti-competitive practices that have prevented fair...
racer.com
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
The Tracks were being discussed, not the teams.
SMI Tracks cant hold a non NASCAR Stock Car race in the same year, unless NASCAR approves it.
Please keep up with the discussion.
wi_racefan
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Doesn't RWR run a car in the CARS tour? I thought it won the owner's title?
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
It could be authorized. Like I said, they don't see CARS as a threat.
RWR also runs a two-car team in F1. Between that and Penske and Mark's participation in multiple series, authorization looks to be as easy to get a driver's waiver. Still, having to ask permission sounds anti-competitive to my untrained ear but I'm not a lawyer.
Justin Marks races in other series also. Jr. races in Xfinity, CARS etc. Haas F-1. Pretty sure the latest stronger rules were put in when Nascar got a whiff of what 23XI is attempting to do.
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
To be fair to that one, it doew say Stock Cars
To be fair to that one, it doew say Stock Cars
Please try to keep up with the discussion.To be fair to that one, it doew say Stock Cars
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
My mistake
See how easy it is to admit when you make one?
I definitely deserve that lol.Please try to keep up with the discussion.
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
Do they run the F1 team under another name? Only non NASCAR thing i see them in is NHRA and American Flat Track.
My apologies, it's Gene Haas that has the F1 team.
Haas F1 Team | Haas F1 Team
www.haasf1team.com
I like salsa on my crow.
I think we have entered the Knife, Spoon, Fork stage of the off season.
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
Ahhh okay.My apologies, it's Gene Haas that has the F1 team.
Haas F1 Team | Haas F1 Team
I like salsa on my crow.
Wonder if it's because they already had the team before this year that its allowed