78 FRR is done

Greg said:
Joe Gibbs is a classless piece of sh!t.
Click to expand...
StandOnIt said:
He's family. We just love Barney
Click to expand...
Amen. Ol' Pious Joe is cashing the big Toyota checks, and is also covering his costs plus a margin by supplying FRR at $4 million per year... then decides to jack it up $8 million higher... just for "F U Blood Money." No bueno. Signing Truex and Bass Pro to the Gibbs 19 team is just adding extra nails in the FRR coffin.

The team ownership business model is very difficult... essentially non-viable economically for the last decade or more. I've been a big supporter of Barney Visser and his red-blooded American bootstrap story... a self-made man who started with nothing. I've been appalled frequently at the scorn heaped upon Visser, his race team, and his driver. I believe it stems mainly from jealousy. But despite that, this story also shows that Visser is... where the rubber meets the road... essentially he is a hobbyist racer. Racing is not in his blood, not in his DNA, the same way as Rick Hendrick or Roger Penske or Chip Ganassi or others in Nascar's team owner ranks. Visser chose the exit ramp, but there were other routes, other sources of chassis supply and engine supply. All the other owners have had to overcome loss of sponsors.

So this story leaves a new and ugly tone on The Preacher, but also a new tone to Barney Visser, IMO. If he "needed" to race the way the other owners need it, he'd still be doing it. It's Nascar's loss that he doesn't. Just my $0.02.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Amen. Ol' Pious Joe is cashing the big Toyota checks, and is also covering his costs plus a margin by supplying FRR at $4 million per year... then decides to jack it up $8 million higher... just for "F U Blood Money." No bueno. Signing Truex and Bass Pro to the Gibbs 19 team is just adding extra nails in the FRR coffin.

The team ownership business model is very difficult... essentially non-viable economically for the last decade or more. I've been a big supporter of Barney Visser and his red-blooded American bootstrap story... a self-made man who started with nothing. I've been appalled frequently at the scorn heaped upon Visser, his race team, and his driver. I believe it stems mainly from jealousy. But despite that, this story also shows that Visser is... where the rubber meets the road... essentially he is a hobbyist racer. Racing is not in his blood, not in his DNA, the same way as Rick Hendrick or Roger Penske or Chip Ganassi or others in Nascar's team owner ranks. Visser chose the exit ramp, but there were other routes, other sources of chassis supply and engine supply. All the other owners have had to overcome loss of sponsors.

So this story leaves a new and ugly tone on The Preacher, but also a new tone to Barney Visser, IMO. If he "needed" to race the way the other owners need it, he'd still be doing it. It's Nascar's loss that he doesn't. Just my $0.02.
Click to expand...
Reading what has been posted here and other stories, I think your a little off.
First: Barney just had a near death experience and no time off with sick pay to recover.
Second: He is not the sole owner of the family business and can not through money, not his, at a race team. There are many parts to this puzzle and none have to be the villain here.
Joe did what he wanted with his business and he is not obligated to make decisions for the benefit of another team. Martin is not the villain because Barney told him to look for a ride.
So all three made their own decisions what they thought best for them.
Martin Truex has never been a top 10 driver IMO and he is damn lucky he got this CC.
 
Team Penske said:
Like he said, no option to "click to expand"
Click to expand...
Ok on the yellow box in the original post on racing forums not the articles website there is a click to expand, you can see it in your last post where you quoted someone
 
StandOnIt said:
Click on what FL has posted here at the forum
Click to expand...
The story behind the fall of Furniture Row
Compounding factors, challenging NASCAR ownership model lead to departure of series champ Furniture Row Racing.
By Adam Stern
October 15, 2018
After proving that a small operation based west of the Mississippi could be successful and then reaching NASCAR’s pinnacle, Furniture Row Racing owner Barney Visser decided to pull the plug on the team. Photo: Getty Images B arney Visser has always bee...

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TexasRaceLady said:
The whole article is there. Just click at the bottom of the quote -- where it says "click to expand".
Click to expand...
But he is right TRL, there is no "click to expand" for me either. I am guessing its in the area that I have screen grab?
NYBZdt5.jpg
 
I had the article sent to my INBOX ( thank you very much.)
I had read that article before and it is where I formed my opinion that
no one is the villain.:D
 
LewTheShoe said:
Amen. Ol' Pious Joe is cashing the big Toyota checks, and is also covering his costs plus a margin by supplying FRR at $4 million per year... then decides to jack it up $8 million higher... just for "F U Blood Money." No bueno. Signing Truex and Bass Pro to the Gibbs 19 team is just adding extra nails in the FRR coffin.

The team ownership business model is very difficult... essentially non-viable economically for the last decade or more. I've been a big supporter of Barney Visser and his red-blooded American bootstrap story... a self-made man who started with nothing. I've been appalled frequently at the scorn heaped upon Visser, his race team, and his driver. I believe it stems mainly from jealousy. But despite that, this story also shows that Visser is... where the rubber meets the road... essentially he is a hobbyist racer. Racing is not in his blood, not in his DNA, the same way as Rick Hendrick or Roger Penske or Chip Ganassi or others in Nascar's team owner ranks. Visser chose the exit ramp, but there were other routes, other sources of chassis supply and engine supply. All the other owners have had to overcome loss of sponsors.

So this story leaves a new and ugly tone on The Preacher, but also a new tone to Barney Visser, IMO. If he "needed" to race the way the other owners need it, he'd still be doing it. It's Nascar's loss that he doesn't. Just my $0.02.
Click to expand...

I agree with all but the Visser assessment as hobbyists rather than a pure racer. He has invested a lot already. After getting screwed by the Preacher enough was enough. But that is not the only context, his age and health etc, paired with rebuilding just created a good timing for an exit. Drivers have to make a similar call as well, it does not diminish any as racers, imo.

I agree with you about Gibbs he is a low life, as well as TRD for pairing up with the sanctimonious ahole.
The preacher has created a revival, a little hate and it's purpose in racing can be a good thing, I am glad it has been rewakened.
 
upload_2018-10-15_21-42-18.png


Do you see the box UNDER the link? At the bottom of the quote box, in the center, are the words Click to expand -- right under the words "needed to be competitive." You may need to highlight
that to see it more clearly.
 
Team Penske said:
Like he said, no option to "click to expand"
Click to expand...
not the link he posted. click the written text below the link, left click below on Post #430. For some of us there isn't any click to expand on the website, or in post 430 wherever it is supposed to be.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
View attachment 36489

Do you see the box UNDER the link? At the bottom of the quote box, in the center, are the words Click to expand -- right under the words "needed to be competitive." You may need to highlight
that to see it more clearly.
Click to expand...
OK Thanks. I didn't see what your trying to point out so I just started to left click on the whole message and at some point it expanded.
See you can, with the patience of Job, teach an old dog a new trick. :D
 
Greg said:
If only I could be as unbiased as you are.
Click to expand...

Well, Barney himself said that the alliance price had nothing to do with anything, but okay. .....and before you go off on Barney just being politically correct, keep in mind that your boy Adam Stern refers to him as a maverick, and Barney refused to join the RTA, so it isn't like he is going to say stuff just to kiss somebody's ass. I am biased as hell, but there really isn't anything here. Barney didn't want to pay out of his own pocket again. It wasn't like he had been with 5 Hour for 20 years or anything. The narrative about Joe Gibbs being a "piece of ****" isn't supported anywhere but on this completely unbiased forum. SMDH.
 
Revman said:
Well, Barney himself said that the alliance price had nothing to do with anything, but okay. .....and before you go off on Barney just being politically correct, keep in mind that your boy Adam Stern refers to him as a maverick, and Barney refused to join the RTA, so it isn't like he is going to say stuff just to kiss somebody's ass. I am biased as hell, but there really isn't anything here. Barney didn't want to pay out of his own pocket again. It wasn't like he had been with 5 Hour for 20 years or anything. The narrative about Joe Gibbs being a "piece of sh!t" isn't supported anywhere but on this completely unbiased forum. SMDH.
Click to expand...

maybe ol Joe will show up and raise your living expenses over three times more than it is now, and you can join us. :p:D
 
StandOnIt said:
maybe ol Joe will show up and raise your living expenses over three times more than it is now, and you can join us. :p:D
Click to expand...

Contract details are never released, so you go with Stern? Okay.....and you are calling Barney a liar? Okay....
 
Revman said:
Well, Barney himself said that the alliance price had nothing to do with anything, but okay. .....and before you go off on Barney just being politically correct, keep in mind that your boy Adam Stern refers to him as a maverick, and Barney refused to join the RTA, so it isn't like he is going to say stuff just to kiss somebody's ass. I am biased as hell, but there really isn't anything here. Barney didn't want to pay out of his own pocket again. It wasn't like he had been with 5 Hour for 20 years or anything. The narrative about Joe Gibbs being a "piece of sh!t" isn't supported anywhere but on this completely unbiased forum. SMDH.
Click to expand...

I don’t know Joe Gibbs and don’t know if he is good or bad but I don’t think an honest assement can be made on his dealings with Visser. Visser said bowing out had nothing to do with JGR and everything to do with lack of sponsorship. Visser has no reason to lie as he is done with NASCAR in a month and will never be seen or heard from again.

JGR had a championship winning product it was selling FRR and they can sell high, low or give it away as it is literally their business. I suspect all the Joe Gibbs hate on this issue is just a cover for other things but it is only my opinion.
 
I guess if you have your head stuck in a barrel that makes sense. Increasing over three times the money it takes to be an affiliate is equal to Barney's sponsor leaving. Wonder if Levine family racing is paying the same amount ol Joe was trying to get out of Barney.
 
StandOnIt said:
I guess if you have your head stuck in a barrel that makes sense. Increasing over three times the money it takes to be an affiliate is equal to Barney's sponsor leaving. Wonder if Levine family racing is paying the same amount ol Joe was trying to get out of Barney.
Click to expand...
Yep, if 5-Hour were spending $10M as reported, and JGR decided to raise the fee by an additional $7-9M, that's effectively two major sponsors FRR would've had to lock down in a very short period of time - damn near impossible in NASCAR's current economic climate. And on top of that, GMS balked at the JGR alliance fee when Barney was discussing selling his assets to them.

I'd be surprised if LFR will pay what was asked of FRR. I don't think JGR view them as a threat at the moment.
 
JGR had an agreement with FRR and honored the terms of the agreement. The agreement expired and JGR upped the ask which Visser didn’t seem to take issue with. Visser said he was closing up shop because 5 hour energy left. Barney is done with NASCAR so why would he lie about this?

I don’t have an issue with any owners but if I did it would probably be the convicted felon and tax cheat.
 
IanMcVittie said:
JGR had an agreement with FRR and honored the terms of the agreement. The agreement expired and JGR upped the ask which Visser didn’t seem to take issue with. Visser said he was closing up shop because 5 hour energy left. Barney is done with NASCAR so why would he lie about this?

I don’t have an issue with any owners but if I did it would probably be the convicted felon and tax cheat.
Click to expand...
uh nope, reports were Visser was going to cut expenses and go without 5 hr. Ol Joe broke the back.
 
Umm, Visser stated in his interview about the situation that 5 Hour leaving was what sealed the fate of the team. Once that happened he let Martin out of his contract to search out a new seat. I love the revisionist stuff that gets posted here.
 
Towmater said:
Umm, Visser stated in his interview about the situation that 5 Hour leaving was what sealed the fate of the team. Once that happened he let Martin out of his contract to search out a new seat. I love the revisionist stuff that gets posted here.
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Official press release:

“This is not good for anybody,” said team owner Barney Visser. “The numbers just don’t add up. I would have to borrow money to continue as a competitive team and I’m not going to do that. This was obviously a painful decision to arrive at knowing how it will affect a number of quality and talented people.

“We’ve been aggressively seeking sponsorship to replace 5-hour ENERGY and to offset the rising costs of continuing a team alliance with Joe Gibbs Racing but haven’t had any success. I feel that it’s only proper to make the decision at this time to allow all team members to start seeking employment for next year. I strongly believe that all of our people have enhanced their careers by working at Furniture Row Racing.”
Click to expand...
https://furniturerowracing.furnitur...o-Cease-Operations-After-2018-Season/16101555
 
StandOnIt said:
uh nope, reports were Visser was going to cut expenses and go without 5 hr. Ol Joe broke the back.
Click to expand...

Barney said he and JGR were close to extending the agreement until 5 Hour pulled out. I can only go with what Barney said as he would know and has no reason to lie.

“Visser later tried to downplay that relationship, telling ESPN that the fee increase wasn’t “ridiculous,” and that the sides had been close to extending the deal before 5-hour pulled out.”
 
StandOnIt said:
Doesn't say who came first if you read it, but 5 hr was first.
Click to expand...

All I know is that Barney said the sides were close to extending the agreement until 5 Hour decided not to continue sponsorship.

Unless Barney was misquoted, is lying or got confused it seems pretty clear what happened. If Barney needed to protect a relationship with NASCAR, JGR or Toyota I could see him fudging things but there is no reason for that.
 
IanMcVittie said:
All I know is that Barney said the sides were close to extending the agreement until 5 Hour decided not to continue sponsorship.

Unless Barney was misquoted, is lying or got confused it seems pretty clear what happened. If Barney needed to protect a relationship with NASCAR, JGR or Toyota I could see him fudging things but there is no reason for that.
Click to expand...

you believe what ya want, The rumors and announcement and the timing I was around for. Timing a side, jack up the price from 2 or 3 mill to 10 or 12, doesn't matter about timing anyway.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Yep, if 5-Hour were spending $10M as reported, and JGR decided to raise the fee by an additional $7-9M, that's effectively two major sponsors FRR would've had to lock down in a very short period of time - damn near impossible in NASCAR's current economic climate. And on top of that, GMS balked at the JGR alliance fee when Barney was discussing selling his assets to them.

I'd be surprised if LFR will pay what was asked of FRR. I don't think JGR view them as a threat at the moment.
Click to expand...

LFR is going to be a factor down the line, but seeing where FRR was after 2015 and where LFR is now, its going to be a while.

I wonder how much the Levine family is paying for this partnership?
 
It is interesting that people lay this at Gibb's feet but won't aim any of the blame at 5 Hour leaving. You know, the sponsor, that was paying the bills and is leaving NASCAR.
 
Towmater said:
It is interesting that people lay this at Gibb's feet but won't aim any of the blame at 5 Hour leaving. You know, the sponsor, that was paying the bills and is leaving NASCAR.
Click to expand...
That's what I don't understand either, if 5 Hour stayed we wouldn't of had this thread. It's all about major sponsors leaving. Until NASCAR makes this sport a hell of a lot cheaper we will continue to have these discussions.
 
Towmater said:
It is interesting that people lay this at Gibb's feet but won't aim any of the blame at 5 Hour leaving. You know, the sponsor, that was paying the bills and is leaving NASCAR.
Click to expand...

Most who have addressed the matter have mentioned 5-hour Energy's departure and Gibbs' increasing the alliance cost as dual factors. As posted above by @FLRacingFan, one was effectively a $10 million annual hit, and the other around an $8 million annual cost increase. Both are certainly relevant.

If you prefer to read message board posts criticizing the actions of an "energy shot" business as opposed to those critical of a racing team, maybe you should find a caffeinated beverage forum for that kind of discussion.
 
IanMcVittie said:
JGR had an agreement with FRR and honored the terms of the agreement. The agreement expired and JGR upped the ask which Visser didn’t seem to take issue with. Visser said he was closing up shop because 5 hour energy left. Barney is done with NASCAR so why would he lie about this?

I don’t have an issue with any owners but if I did it would probably be the convicted felon and tax cheat.
Click to expand...

I get where you're coming from, and posted early on in this saga that JGR can certainly decide who to do business with and on what terms. They did not do anything illegal, or strictly unethical. However, they are a public-facing company participating in what is to some degree an entertainment business. Fans and observers can and will judge their actions.

I'm with you that the NASCAR owners club is not necessarily full of saints, nor is any major sporting institution I'm aware of.
 
Towmater said:
It is interesting that people lay this at Gibb's feet but won't aim any of the blame at 5 Hour leaving. You know, the sponsor, that was paying the bills and is leaving NASCAR.
Click to expand...
Sponsor come and go; it's the nature of the business. Senior management is there to make decisions that are in the company's best interest, not necessarily looking out for their marketing partners. 5 Hour's contract was up; it's not like they pulled a Nature's Bakery.
 
gnomesayin said:
I get where you're coming from, and posted early on in this saga that JGR can certainly decide who to do business with and on what terms. They did not do anything illegal, or strictly unethical. However, they are a public-facing company participating in what is to some degree an entertainment business. Fans and observers can and will judge their actions.

I'm with you that the NASCAR owners club is not necessarily full of saints, nor is any major sporting institution I'm aware of.
Click to expand...

I do believe that had 5 Hour stayed and FRR had to pay 8-10 million in alliance fees it would have done them in. Had 5 Hour stayed a lower fee may have been negotiated or perhaps Toyota would have done something.

I am fine with forum members not liking Joe Gibbs but I think making him the face of why FRR closed shop is not accurate. Just my opinion for what it is worth.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Yep, if 5-Hour were spending $10M as reported, and JGR decided to raise the fee by an additional $7-9M, that's effectively two major sponsors FRR would've had to lock down in a very short period of time - damn near impossible in NASCAR's current economic climate. And on top of that, GMS balked at the JGR alliance fee when Barney was discussing selling his assets to them.

I'd be surprised if LFR will pay what was asked of FRR. I don't think JGR view them as a threat at the moment.
Click to expand...
I see LFR having its wings clipped by JGR, so to speak, before it gets too competitive. It will be sort of like the relationship between Red Bull and Toro Rosso that we see in F1. Jmo.
 
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