78 FRR is done

kk5fan said:
They get a purse, don't they? Someone pays for that.
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DRS3 said:
It all grows on a tree!!!!
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It used to.....nomow.......Madison Ave. knows that advertising monies now should be spent on more modern methods of reaching consumers.....Sponsors are realizing that there is more exposure for their product on T V, the internet , and any other device that the modern world has it's nose stuck in.....works better than a name or a few words on a car that runs once a week ..
 
Anyone bashing JGR clearly doesn’t understand modern day economics...FRR was a main source of competition within their industry. So they made the decision to raise the price. Essentially, it works out to be a buyout. They’ve now absorbed a main competitor and assumed their costs without taking on bad debt, banking on the future revenue/earnings/performance that team will bring in. It was a difficult but also very shrewd move by JGR.

I just wonder how Toyota/TRD views it. Perhaps they view as lateral, they had 5 factory teams and only 4 were really competitive. That number should continue with Suarez being shuffled aside. @Revman what are your thoughts?
 
3wideinturn1 said:
Anyone bashing JGR clearly doesn’t understand modern day economics...FRR was a main source of competition within their industry. So they made the decision to raise the price. Essentially, it works out to be a buyout. They’ve now absorbed a main competitor and assumed their costs without taking on bad debt, banking on the future revenue/earnings/performance that team will bring in. It was a difficult but also very shrewd move by JGR.

I just wonder how Toyota/TRD views it. Perhaps they view as lateral, they had 5 factory teams and only 4 were really competitive. That number should continue with Suarez being shuffled aside. @Revman what are your thoughts?
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...and Visser wanted out. Win/win for everyone.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm basing this on what we think we know, that Visser agreed to foot the bill for the team for 2019 even with the lack of sponsorship and the jacked up fees from JGR. If that is in fact true, then Truex bailing to go to the guy partially responsible for putting the financial crunch on FRR, especially if he did it behind Visser's back is just plain slimy, no matter how you slice it. If 2019 had played out, and FRR still didn't have solid backing in place, then I wouldn't have such a problem with this, and chances are, Visser would have told him to go look for work. That 19 seat likely wasn't going anywhere anyway. Unless Suarez improved dramatically in 2019, Preacher Joe could still show him the door and bring in Martin for 2020. If any of the information we think we know is not correct, I reserve the right to adjust my stance, but so far I haven't seen anybody from the Truex/JGR camp try to justify or explain what happened, so until I hear otherwise, I'll assume that the deal is as slimy as it appears.
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You just summed up how I feel about this whole deal....well said.
 
BobbyFord said:
I don’t see how it’s slimy at all.
How much money was coming out of Visser’s pocket and going out the tailpipe of the 78?
How much financial assistance, if any, did Toyota offer?
What sponsors were lined up and what were the final negative numbers?
None of us know any these answers but we’re certain something shady happened?
What if it were a Chevy team closing it’s doors. Let’s say CGR closed up next year...where would you want Larson to go?
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I’d actually want Larson to go to Indy Car if we can be honest here.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
Anyone bashing JGR clearly doesn’t understand modern day economics...FRR was a main source of competition within their industry. So they made the decision to raise the price. Essentially, it works out to be a buyout. They’ve now absorbed a main competitor and assumed their costs without taking on bad debt, banking on the future revenue/earnings/performance that team will bring in. It was a difficult but also very shrewd move by JGR.

I just wonder how Toyota/TRD views it. Perhaps they view as lateral, they had 5 factory teams and only 4 were really competitive. That number should continue with Suarez being shuffled aside. @Revman what are your thoughts?
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Thanks for asking. I can tell you that David Wilson sounded flat out distraught on Moody's show yesterday. I think that David truly valued the relationship with FRR, and is absolutely heartbroken that they could not continue. Having said that, he made it very clear that he was working on keeping MTJ in a Toyota. I believe that he adores MTJ, and that the feeling is mutual. I agree with your assessment that this acts as a buyout. If Suarez goes to a JGR affiliate Levine car, then you still have five cars, and kind of the same situation you have this year which has Toyota with a 1 point lead in the Manufacturers Championship, and four of five drivers headed to the Playoffs. Not bad. Overall, this is kind of a push in terms of teams/cars....but only kind of. Someone already pointed out that Cole Pearn will be a huge asset to JGR if all of that pans out. I do believe that David deeply values relationships, and the fact that FRR is gone is hugely disappointing to him. I do wonder if they are going to work on finding other teams. In this razor edge environment, losing cars counts can happen very quickly obviously. TRD doesn't have much wiggle room in this area.
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't know why you would feel slimy in either case. Kyle's contract was up at the end of the season, and Rick chose not to pick up the option on the contract, and he did it in June, giving Kyle plenty of time to land on his feet, which he did in spades. As for Mark, that was a year to year deal, and Mark knew he was at the end of the road as a full time driver, and Mark is the one that brought Kahne to HMS. I thought it was a brilliant move at the time. Sadly, it didn't work out so good.
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I thought remembered they tried pushing Mark out a year early to put Kahne in the 5 but Mark wouldn’t budge so Rick had to stash him at Red Bull Racing for a year while Mark raced the whole season and then retired?
 
Revman said:
Thanks for asking. I can tell you that David Wilson sounded flat out distraught on Moody's show yesterday. I think that David truly valued the relationship with FRR, and is absolutely heartbroken that they could not continue. Having said that, he made it very clear that he was working on keeping MTJ in a Toyota. I believe that he adores MTJ, and that the feeling is mutual. I agree with your assessment that this acts as a buyout. If Suarez goes to a JGR affiliate Levine car, then you still have five cars, and kind of the same situation you have this year which has Toyota with a 1 point lead in the Manufacturers Championship, and four of five drivers headed to the Playoffs. Not bad. Overall, this is kind of a push in terms of teams/cars....but only kind of. Someone already pointed out that Cole Pearn will be a huge asset to JGR if all of that pans out. I do believe that David deeply values relationships, and the fact that FRR is gone is hugely disappointing to him. I do wonder if they are going to work on finding other teams. In this razor edge environment, losing cars counts can happen very quickly obviously. TRD doesn't have much wiggle room in this area.
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I really liked that GMS news before it fizzled and before the FRR announcement.. I’ve also heard LFR might go into a partnership with JGR.


Either way, I tired of seeing that 78 dominate but I loved that team and where it came from and what they accomplished. Extremely sad to see it end and I can’t help but root for them to close out the year. May need to pick up a diecast. The Furniture Row 78 is going to be a legendary car from here on out.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
Anyone bashing JGR clearly doesn’t understand modern day economics...FRR was a main source of competition within their industry. So they made the decision to raise the price. Essentially, it works out to be a buyout. They’ve now absorbed a main competitor and assumed their costs without taking on bad debt, banking on the future revenue/earnings/performance that team will bring in. It was a difficult but also very shrewd move by JGR.

I just wonder how Toyota/TRD views it. Perhaps they view as lateral, they had 5 factory teams and only 4 were really competitive. That number should continue with Suarez being shuffled aside. @Revman what are your thoughts?
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some say shrewd, I really don't know who, but most say cut throat and other things unmentionable in this forum. In the short time they 78 was an "affiliate" with the preacher, he messed with their cup winning pit crew while they were on a stretch run and now has with his actions eliminated them as a viable team. They have set a precedent for what at the very least could be called tampering with the competition. Never in the history of affiliates have either of those actions been displayed. And then we have how he has treated the drivers who have contracted with him. Talk about giving the sport a black eye.
 
Revman said:
... If Suarez goes to a JGR affiliate Levine car, then you still have five cars, ... Overall, this is kind of a push in terms of teams/cars ...
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That sounds as if you think Toyota regards Levine as comparable to Furniture Row. I don't see how Toyota can regard this as breaking even, even in the unlikely event of the entire #19 crew and all its cars and resources transferring to the #95 with Suarez.
 
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StandOnIt said:
some say shrewd, I really don't know who, but most say cut throat and other things unmentionable in this forum. In the short time they 78 was an "affiliate" with the preacher, he messed with their cup winning pit crew while they were on a stretch run and now has with his actions eliminated them as a viable team. They have set a precedent for what at the very least could be called tampering with the competition. Never in the history of affiliates have either of those actions been displayed. And then we have how he has treated the drivers who have contracted with him. Talk about giving the sport a black eye.
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I feel like Suarez is going to learn this the hard way. If he goes to LFR I think you could pretty much write his career off. I just don’t think he has enough experience to survive at a single car satellite team, especially one that hasn’t shown near the promise that FRR did.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
It was a difficult but also very shrewd move by JGR.
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Like many moves in racing, I suspect this is one of the kind a team can only get away with once.
Truex_rox said:
...and give it a Ghost Rider paint scheme.
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It sure won't be the Washington Redskins.
tclarson said:
I feel like Suarez is going to learn this the hard way. If he goes to LFR I think you could pretty much write his career off. I just don’t think he has enough experience to survive at a single car satellite team, especially one that hasn’t shown near the promise that FRR did.
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I dunno, we wrote Bowman off after he left whichever single-car team he was with and returned to X. Of course, it took connections and someone else's injuries to give him a second shot. Suarez may not get those breaks.
 
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tclarson said:
I feel like Suarez is going to learn this the hard way. If he goes to LFR I think you could pretty much write his career off. I just don’t think he has enough experience to survive at a single car satellite team, especially one that hasn’t shown near the promise that FRR did.
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I think he has the experience just not the talent...and I like Suarez.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That sounds as if you think Toyota regards Levine as comparable to Furniture Row. I don't see how Toyota can regard this as breaking even, even in the unlikely event of the entire #19 crew and all its cars and resources transferring to the #95 with Suarez.
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JGR is cool with it, to the average Joe this looks like the same situation, but we know better. They are loving the fact that they can pass this off as FRR 2.0 to the public but won't have to worry about the 95 actually stealing wins. That's why Suarez needs to just go elsewhere if at all possible.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
JGR is cool with it, to the average Joe this looks like the same situation, but we know better. They are loving the fact that they can pass this off as FRR 2.0 to the public but won't have to worry about the 95 actually stealing wins. That's why Suarez needs to just go elsewhere if at all possible.
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I don’t think Suarez has many options.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That sounds as if you think Toyota regards Levine as comparable to Furniture Row. I don't see how Toyota can regard this as breaking even, even in the unlikely event of the entire #19 crew and all its cars and resources transferring to the #95 with Suarez.
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Maybe the thinking is truex will be as good in the 19 as the 78 with Pearn moving with him, and Suarez will be as irrelevant in the 95 as he is in the 19.
 
BobbyFord said:
I don’t think Suarez has many options.
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A driver with full funding always has options. He might not get a JGR quality ride again for a while, but I'm sure a secondary team like RCR would be happy to give a guy with lots of sponsorship money a ride.

I could even see SHR picking him up if no one Tony likes is available and Kurt leaves. A ride buyer that keeps the car in one piece would certainly beat the last ride buyer they had
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That sounds as if you think Toyota regards Levine as comparable to Furniture Row. I don't see how Toyota can regard this as breaking even, even in the unlikely event of the entire #19 crew and all its cars and resources transferring to the #95 with Suarez.
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I am thinking that your big Toyota 4 are still in the premier TRD stuff--no real changes there. To your point, the 95 becomes an interesting study. No, they are not what FRR is/was obviously, but out of necessity, TRD will have to give them tons of help. It will be difficult to benchmark how effective that help is given the baseline of somewhat limited resources, and Daniel's own struggles/somewhat limited experience. However, it will still be interesting to me to see what TRD can do when they kind of have to do it themselves--kind of. This is all taking into account that the 95 will be a satellite team, so TRD will not be on their own, but they will have to be a whole bunch more involved IMO.
 
Westy said:
A driver with full funding always has options. He might not get a JGR quality ride again for a while, but I'm sure a secondary team like RCR would be happy to give a guy with lots of sponsorship money a ride.

I could even see SHR picking him up if no one Tony likes is available and Kurt leaves. A ride buyer that keeps the car in one piece would certainly beat the last ride buyer they had
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Revman said:
I am thinking that your big Toyota 4 are still in the premier TRD stuff--no real changes there. To your point, the 95 becomes an interesting study. No, they are not what FRR is/was obviously, but out of necessity, TRD will have to give them tons of help. It will be difficult to benchmark how effective that help is given the baseline of somewhat limited resources, and Daniel's own struggles/somewhat limited experience. However, it will still be interesting to me to see what TRD can do when they kind of have to do it themselves--kind of. This is all taking into account that the 95 will be a satellite team, so TRD will not be on their own, but they will have to be a whole bunch more involved IMO.
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I can't help but wonder if Levine manages to become semi-competitive, will JGR dump on them too?

It looks like JGR wants customers, not partners.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I can't help but wonder if Levine manages to become semi-competitive, will JGR dump on them too?

It looks like JGR wants customers, not partners.
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Gotta love that Preacher Joe Gibbs attitude, if you can't beat em, put 'em out of business.

JGR is nothing without Kyle Busch if you ask me. And that's coming from a hater of KB.
 
Spotter22 said:
Carlos Slim putting in a call to SHR
"Hello, yes I have the money, you see they threw my fellow Mexican out like trash, how much will it cost to ourtun them?"
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It will be interesting to see what happens there but I have read somewhere that Arris might be tied to JGR and not Suarez. Maybe someone else can confirm that.
 
sloggie said:
It's too easy to exploit a cap. "We bought these emgines real cheap from Toyota. Only 100 dollars each!"

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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OK, then there isn't a fix. The ownership in the sport will continue to leave. A 43 car field turns into a 40 car field. A 40 car field turns into a 38 car field. A 38 car field turns into a 35 car field and then we are Indy car. You know, the place where you can field a team for $ 3 million dollars instead of NASCARland where it costs $ 10 to 20 million.
 
Towmater said:
OK, then there isn't a fix. The ownership in the sport will continue to leave. A 43 car field turns into a 40 car field. A 40 car field turns into a 38 car field. A 38 car field turns into a 35 car field and then we are Indy car. You know, the place where you can field a team for $ 3 million dollars instead of NASCARland where it costs $ 10 to 20 million.
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Unfortunately I kinda think it is going that way.
 
Towmater said:
A 38 car field turns into a 35 car field and then we are Indy car. You know, the place where you can field a team for $ 3 million dollars instead of NASCARland where it costs $ 10 to 20 million.
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Are you saying there's something wrong with that? I'm not sure what you're getting at. I enjoy IndyCar, especially when they aren't on ovals.
 
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