Matthew2470
It's not that serious
I understand your points regarding NASCAR but I don't understand why you watch something you appear to hate. It seems like you are happier watching racing at the independently owned short tracks.
A call to arms for NASCAR
- Thread starter dpkimmel2001
- Start date
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robbybee
Guest
There is some truth there. Especially about the "fun to drive on" part. While a driver should enjoy driving and be able to celebrate success as something special, this is supposed to be a job! Jay - Oh - Bee. The cars are safer. That's good! But are they now too easy to drive. If so, that's NOT so good.
It is supposed to be HARD to win a CUP Race! But with power steering, cool suits, body-supporting seats and other advancements for driver comfort, it's maybe too easy.
(BTW, I understand that it's hotter for today's drivers since they have to wear NOMEX and full-face helmets...)
Right On. Safety is key. There were safety features available which were not always used by drivers, for whatever reason. Now those are mandatory - which is a good thing!!
YEP! While there is a lot of points driving done at end of the regular season, there is also additional drama with borderline chasers trying to secure their spot in the chase. And it DOES bring additional attention to the sport, which we have long-ago established, is a good thing!
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Huh? When did the fans ask for the chase? I seem to remember Brian France selling it as an exciting playoff format to rival Baseball and Football.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
The fans asked for it when they whined about Kenseth running away with the championship, championships being locked down with 4 races to go and Kenseth only winning one race.
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
The only thing that is 100% clear is that not everyone will ever be 100% happy with NASCAR.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
But NASCAR has done things to piss off 100% of their fans like, for example, removing IRP (I know, Lucas Oil Raceway
) from the Nationwide and Truck calendar.That move alone is indicative of which direction NASCAR wants to take the sport. They know they won't get more fans at the Brickyard than they've gotten at IRP in the past, they know that the racing at IMS is going to suck balls. But, they don't care.
1
#17D500winner
Guest
I'm a Nascar fan and I personally take offense to being blamed for decisions made by Brian France. Nascar isn't some democracy where the majority rule but at the same time bear the brunt of the criticism. It's the Brian France show - take it or leave it.
And, Ted, I have no idea why you have such a problem with Nascar fans stating their opinions but I have to wonder if you'd be happier if ALL Nascar fans packed it in and said screw it - I'm done with Nascar. I wonder what Brian France would have then?
And, Ted, I have no idea why you have such a problem with Nascar fans stating their opinions but I have to wonder if you'd be happier if ALL Nascar fans packed it in and said screw it - I'm done with Nascar. I wonder what Brian France would have then?
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I seem to remember fans asking for wins to mean more, not a chase format. I recall a lot of resistance to the chase point reset.
Fans complain because the product isn't as good as it could be one year, and nascar overreacted. Tires shred at Daytona, and NASCAR overreacted. Driver curses on TV, and nascar overreacted. Owners complained about aero costs, and NASCAR overreacted with the unimodel CoT.
I see a patern here. They've taken nascar from very popular to a now marginal broadcast property. Somehow, NASCAR the organization keeps racking up nice profits by competing with teams for sponsor dollars. Anyone who defends the France's stewardship over the past 10 years has their head in the sand. If they want my time and money, they better work on the product. I'm getting tired of calling marginal racing action "A good race" because so many are boring and pathetic. Is late lap passing too much to ask for while watching a race?
But NASCAR has done things to piss off 100% of their fans like, for example, removing IRP (I know, Lucas Oil Raceway
That move alone is indicative of which direction NASCAR wants to take the sport. They know they won't get more fans at the Brickyard than they've gotten at IRP in the past, they know that the racing at IMS is going to suck balls. But, they don't care.
Do you honestly believe that NASCAR and the France family are trying to destroy the sport so they will have to find other jobs?
Wake up Andy.
Greg
2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader
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People are going to always gripe and complain. We just has the Internet now, the biggest innovation to verbal warfare since the invention of the printing press. A person with the same level of past discontentment has so much more verbal firepower now, the same levels of anger, like going from a Saturday night special to a machine gun.
NASCAR needs to realize as much to prevent an insanity that would drive them toward totally changing everything. They would be wise to only listen to me.
NASCAR needs to realize as much to prevent an insanity that would drive them toward totally changing everything. They would be wise to only listen to me.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
No, I don't. I just think Brian France is honestly stupid enough to believe that a ****ter product at a ****** open wheel track is better than a good product at a good stock car track.
I agree with you about ORP or whatever it is called today. I do not know why that track was lost but someone had to make a decision. It is a done deal and life isn't fair.
Your open ended statements about 100% of the fans being upset is just not accurate.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
I haven't seen anyone who thinks replacing IRP with Indianapolis is a good idea.
Let's wait and see how the sponsors line up. Mean while, we will just have to agree to disagree.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
Yep that was the premise that France used to bring the Chase to Nascar. I don't think it has added any more excitement to the sport. There are years when it is exciting and years when it has not been, just as it was under the old system. I'd like to see the Chase go bye bye, I've long thought it was just a gimmick like the All Star race is one big gimmick. Let these guys race for points the entire season under the new points system and don't reset it for the last ten races. I've always felt that consistency is part of being great, that if you have a dominant team for 36 races you should be rewarded for that. Instead there are two seasons, that is fine in stick and ball sports, but I don't feel it belongs in any form of automobile racing. The biggest probelm in Nascar is "Aero Push", in my opinion, it isn't the tires, Good Year finally has come up with a good tire and now there are people complaining about it.
How quickly we forget how bad some of the tires Goodyear has had not very long ago. If Nascar addresses the aero issue, which I feel starts with the splitter, I think racing will improve vastly. Once that happens the interest will increase with the sport.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Ultimately, the splitter and larger spoiler are what stress the tires so much by allowing higher speeds to compensate for the extra 600 lbs the CoT brings. NASCAR screwed up by not going to a larger tire than they settled for. I for one wouldn't mind seeing the cars go 10 or 15 mph slower with no aero dodads because the racing would be better. That 10 mph would go a long way to allow softer compounds without raising the risk of blowouts.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
I've said this many times also...so what if the qualifying speeds drop 10-15 mph, the driving quotient will once again be a factor.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Racing at Indy could be exciting, but the aero equation puts a huge damper on the excitement.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
Just as it does at any track bigger than a half mile.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Yep. I'm so sick of this momentum and aero crap. Take the aero away and they'll have some extra pedal exiting the turn. A softer tire will bring back the ability to cut hard for the crossover. Slower speeds could even bring back the bump and run. There's so much missing from the racing these days. Aero push, gentlemans agreement, excessive respect.............Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It's why I enjoy watching Kez and Stenhouse race side by side. Those 2 know how to bang and rub without flipping out.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
True, but Indy has some interesting potential for running high and crossing over in 4 different places.
PeopleAreStrange
2016 Yahoo Fantasy R-F Champion
I'm not crazy about the chase, but if we must have it, there needs to be more diversity. Five cookie-cutters, three 1-mile tracks, and no road course or 2-mile track. If you're going to have the chase, at least make it to where the drivers have to be good at every type of track. Also, wins need to mean more, chase or no chase. I know y'all already mentioned that, but I'm not too happy that Tony got 5 wins, Carl only got 1 win, and yet they tied.
Oh well, it's not as bad as it could be. I love NASCAR and enjoy almost every race anyway.
Oh well, it's not as bad as it could be. I love NASCAR and enjoy almost every race anyway.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
It would have been very ironic if the attempt to fix Kenseth's 1 win championship resulted in the very same outcome. 1 more pass in one of 7 chase races, and Carl is a 1 win champ.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
1 more pass in any of the 10 chase races for any spot.
No. Carl finished 2nd in 3 of the chase races. 1 more pass in one those 3 races would have made him a 2 win champion.
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
When Helton, Pemberton and France read this thread tomorrow morning they will have learned how much time we wasted on a Thursday evening.
I have been up for nearly 48 hours so I am missing your point. Carl and Tony were tied in points but Tony had more wins so he got the cup. Had Carl finished one spot higher in any of the chase races, he would have gotten the cup.
sloggie
Racing I will teach you
If you want NASCAR to get better, then stop watching, stop going to races and do something else. The only thing that Brian France and his board of directors understand is $$$.
mike honcho
Knuckleheads
If we quit watching then how will we know when nascar gets better to the point we will be happy watching it again?
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
It really doesn't matter. Tony won. Now get some sleep! LOL
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Different subject that what I was talking about. If he made 1 more pass in the 3 races he finished 2nd, he wouldn't be a one win champion, which was the whole point of what I wrote earlier. Obviously, I know there are 10 races in the chase, and you know one more pass from 2nd is a win.
Hey! The life of a medic is one few understand.
Matthew2470
It's not that serious
I'm glad there are people who can do what you do because I would not be able to function.
mike honcho
Knuckleheads
Tony raced for the wins,Carl points raced.Tony won the Championship.
JimmieGordon2448
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I like the chase format, but your right the tracks should change.
buckaroo
Here kitty, kitty, kitty
One thing is for sure, as someone said, you ain't never going to get everyone to agree with anything. I read recently that a judge threw out a suit filed by retired NFL players, saying the NFLPA wasn't a union during the lock out and couldn't talk for the retirees. At the end of the story, the writer said something to the effect, NASCAR and the France family might have something right. One way or another, it's the only game in town at present and trying to get another stock car series up and running is all but impossible. Not even ARCA can compete with NASCAR on a national level. And of course the reason is coverage and sponsorship. Many here have only known the Cup series as being something that could be seen on TV each and every race. But it wasn't always that way. ESPN is responsible for the rise of NASCAR as we know it today because they are the ones who began to televise more and more races live. That is the most important thing, being televised nationally. Without that, NASCAR would be much like it was in the 70's, and for many older fans, much better. I can't say the France family is doing the best job, but I can say that if we put together a committee of just the members of this board to run the series, it wouldn't go anywhere. There is such a divide in the fan base as to what and where to take the series and how to get it done. While Brian France is the head of NASCAR, to think that he doesn't have the sport in it's best interest is just ludicrous. There are probably any number of advisors that he has to listen to as well as sponsors, owners and of course drivers, not to mention the fans.
I'm a huge NASCAR fan and watch all the races I can, but more and more of them have become races that I can't watch live because they have moved them to Saturday night and that is when the majority of the local tracks hold their races. I've told time and time again my problem with NASCAR so I don't need to rehash it now. But I do wish that we had the ability to see some of the best racing that isn't in the front, or cars that involve "special" people. When I'm at the track, I'm very seldom watching the leaders unless it's obvious that there is some great competition going on there.
I'm a huge NASCAR fan and watch all the races I can, but more and more of them have become races that I can't watch live because they have moved them to Saturday night and that is when the majority of the local tracks hold their races. I've told time and time again my problem with NASCAR so I don't need to rehash it now. But I do wish that we had the ability to see some of the best racing that isn't in the front, or cars that involve "special" people. When I'm at the track, I'm very seldom watching the leaders unless it's obvious that there is some great competition going on there.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
ARCA blew their best chance. I firmly believe that if ARCA had attempted to get a national TV deal with VS in 2009 after their popularity surge in '08 (and the championship being decided in the funniest race ever) like a lot of people wanted in the garage, they might have more viewers than Nationwide. Instead, they elected not to even try to get a better television package and they decided to stick their middle finger up at anyone who suggested they utilize social media (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube). The racing in ARCA is usually better than NASCAR, always has been, but the people in charge are stuck back in the 1990s.
Greg
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Thread learnings:
It shore is tough being a NASCAR fan these days.
Just remember that the indignities can always be worse, Just try to see the good, many have remained cheerful in far more challenging situations. An example of a difficult problem requiring far more patience follows:
Once there was a co-joined pair of simease twins. One was straight and the other gay.
Their greatest challenge to co-exit occurred as adults, when one of them planned a hot date.....
See it always can be worse, this NASCAR crisis will pass and if we are blessed enough to enjoy a few more years of life, most of us will still be NASCAR fans in 2022 or 2032. Maybe even remembering 2012 as a great year, or just telling stupid stories like me.
It shore is tough being a NASCAR fan these days.
Just remember that the indignities can always be worse, Just try to see the good, many have remained cheerful in far more challenging situations. An example of a difficult problem requiring far more patience follows:
Once there was a co-joined pair of simease twins. One was straight and the other gay.
Their greatest challenge to co-exit occurred as adults, when one of them planned a hot date.....
See it always can be worse, this NASCAR crisis will pass and if we are blessed enough to enjoy a few more years of life, most of us will still be NASCAR fans in 2022 or 2032. Maybe even remembering 2012 as a great year, or just telling stupid stories like me.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
The risk outweighs the reward. The risk of hard, side by side racing and the result of a bad finish has greater consequences than it ever has in the past under the current points system. Drivers are too conservative. Finishing 4th is almost as good as a win these days, points wise. And that's the ultimate goal under this new system. Just stay close for the first 26. Don't do anything crazy that could cost you to have a bad points day. If anything needs to be done with this current system, reward the winner. Make it so much of an award to finish P1 that it's the only goal. If they have to stick with this stick & ball, made for TV Chase system then only allow race winners in the top 20 into the Chase.
Aero push..... No offense to all of the aero engineers on this board but if it were as simple as just allowing more air under the car, removing this or that, wouldn't there have already been a change made by NASCAR? I have to think that this is much more of a challenge then many of us seem to think.
The presentation of the sport, TV & Radio..... Television will never be able to cover this sport in a way that shows all of the action on the track. The guy in the truck is the one that we are watching the race with and the television announcers are only reporting what they see. Those announcers sitting high atop the 50 yard line are watching the same race that we are on television and that is all that they comment on. They can't comment on the things that we are not seeing. Could you imagine the outrage if they started calling the race outside that little window that we are allowed to see? Think about it. Radio is the next best thing to being there IMO. Their team of announcers are located all over the track watching the entire race at every single moment bringing us all of the action. No comparison there.
I'm anxious to see the type of racing that will be on the track next year with the new, unknown body style effects. They're in the car that they are right now but it seems like they are making an effort to make them more racy so I'll wait to see how that works out.
Aero push..... No offense to all of the aero engineers on this board but if it were as simple as just allowing more air under the car, removing this or that, wouldn't there have already been a change made by NASCAR? I have to think that this is much more of a challenge then many of us seem to think.
The presentation of the sport, TV & Radio..... Television will never be able to cover this sport in a way that shows all of the action on the track. The guy in the truck is the one that we are watching the race with and the television announcers are only reporting what they see. Those announcers sitting high atop the 50 yard line are watching the same race that we are on television and that is all that they comment on. They can't comment on the things that we are not seeing. Could you imagine the outrage if they started calling the race outside that little window that we are allowed to see? Think about it. Radio is the next best thing to being there IMO. Their team of announcers are located all over the track watching the entire race at every single moment bringing us all of the action. No comparison there.
I'm anxious to see the type of racing that will be on the track next year with the new, unknown body style effects. They're in the car that they are right now but it seems like they are making an effort to make them more racy so I'll wait to see how that works out.