Better Racing Will Bring More Fans to Nascar

AtomicPunk55 said:
I agree that anything can happen to alter the course of a race.

I never said I was in favor of engines grenading or cars retiring due to other mechanical problems. I said that it did happen so it kept me on the edge of my seat. I don't advocate gremlins being introduced into cars today as those things were just a product of the times.

I don't know what a NASCAR lifestyle is and I don't care about changing things to a previous time. NASCAR could do some things to improve the series that don't involve turning back time in my opinion
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The point of 400-500 mile races was to test man and machine. The problem often with IndyCars in the 80's and 90's was they would break down and if there was contact of any sort they'd be done. Some races became comical with 8 or 9 cars running by the end. Cup races never got that bad but there were races with less than 20 cars making laps at the checkered.

It was usually the same teams having the same issues. Kenny Bernstein's engines would explode like clock word, early Roush engines were really sketchy and Gant had a 2-3 year stretch of grenades under the hood. Rusty's and Earnhardt's cars were generally bullet proof iirc. Elliott's reliability was up and down. Likewise with the Hendrick Cars. Junior Johnson's cars were pretty reliable up until '93.
 
I got to see the last sixty laps of the Xfinity race today, and was more entertained by it than ANYTHING I've seen in Cup this year. If it weren't for Logano being in the race, we would have had a photo finish for the win.
 
That Martinsville race had 16 cautions with 14 cars out of 43 finishing on the lead lap:D I don't see anything there that could be charitable or a joke like the original poster was carping about and that was one race in 13 years ago? Were those the good ol days?
 
StandOnIt said:
That Martinsville race had 16 cautions with 14 cars out of 43 finishing on the lead lap:D I don't see anything there that could be charitable or a joke like the original poster was carping about and that was one race in 13 years ago? Were those the good ol days?
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I guess the stages let him get his laps back....no wait
 
Spotter22 said:
I remember 1 car on the lead lap. Thats not better
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It was for that car. I'll bet Brian wasn't around that day to black flag the car for
spoiling the event.
Formerjackman said:
If it weren't for Logano being in the race, we would have had a photo finish for the win.
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Logano didn't spoil the race, his car was just a little better than the 7 and 9. Actually I think the 9 car was the best at times. The only difference Logano made was he drove error free and was able to overcome a pit error.
If you think the 7 and 1 would have been a photo finish you don't know Sadler very well.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
I don't think the type of races held at current Nascar tracks will increase TV ratings because my opinion is that traditional American motorsports no longer capture the imagination of people the way they did in decades past. In other words you could have finishes like Busch and Craven at Darlington each week and it wouldn't improve ratings. Something like that showing the last lap and a half might be very popular on Youtube though. IMO there will always be a market for Nascar so I am not suggesting it is dying but just on its way to becoming smaller. Smaller is not synonymous with poor quality bad racing either.
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I agree. Look at a series like Global RallyCross, where they race Tuner cars that the younger folks like. The racing is great, short, and they get a turnout of about 10,000 fans at most.
 
Team Penske said:
It was for that car. I'll bet Brian wasn't around that day to black flag the car for
spoiling the event.

Logano didn't spoil the race, his car was just a little better than the 7 and 9. Actually I think the 9 car was the best at times. The only difference Logano made was he drove error free and was able to overcome a pit error.
If you think the 7 and 1 would have been a photo finish you don't know Sadler very well.
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A LITTLE better? The ONLY laps he didn't lead was when he was out of sequence on pitting. Why do you think the finish between the 1 and the 7 would have been any different if it was for the win instead of second?
 
Some people consider a rivalry between drivers to be a hostilities on and off the track while others will see it as what Dale and Rusty had. I definitely would not what the former as to me it makes the series a laughing stock and I don't need the drama. If drivers like Kevin Harvick and Kyle Busch competed neck and neck (or on the case of Ryan Newman neck and no neck) every week it would be fine with me but rivalries are not important to me in racing.
 
Team Penske said:
It was for that car. I'll bet Brian wasn't around that day to black flag the car for
spoiling the event.

Logano didn't spoil the race, his car was just a little better than the 7 and 9. Actually I think the 9 car was the best at times. The only difference Logano made was he drove error free and was able to overcome a pit error.
If you think the 7 and 1 would have been a photo finish you don't know Sadler very well.
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Brain hasnt spolied anything for me. Maybe when Penske starts running better you'll like it better
 
Formerjackman said:
A LITTLE better? The ONLY laps he didn't lead was when he was out of sequence on pitting. Why do you think the finish between the 1 and the 7 would have been any different if it was for the win instead of second?
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Why can't you just be happy you saw a great race for second place?? Who cars if there was a car ahead of them?? What is great racing if not for 2 or 3 cars jockeying for position? Why is it only great if it is for the win??
I don't think you like racing.
 
Spotter22 said:
Brain hasnt spolied anything for me. Maybe when Penske starts running better you'll like it better
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Penske cars ran OK today, but not good enough to beat 78,18,42. Who knows if Happy had been smarter, he may have challenged for the win as well.
I am quite happy with the race I saw today and yes I would have enjoyed seeing any one of the Penske cars in victory lane. I still don't think they have enough to beat the Toyota's.
The #78 and #4 have what the #48 used to have.
 
homer.gif
homer.gif Under the weather yesterday so stayed on the couch all day. The race started and I just happened to have a stop watch next to me. Green flag to 30 minutes later equaled 17 minutes of commercials and 13 minutes of race coverage. After awhile I switched to something more exciting, golf. Flipped back and forth all day. 10 cars on the lead lap, had there been 5 more laps, only 8 cars would have finished on the lead lap.
 
rocket dawg said:
View attachment 33973 View attachment 33973 Under the weather yesterday so stayed on the couch all day. The race started and I just happened to have a stop watch next to me. Green flag to 30 minutes later equaled 17 minutes of commercials and 13 minutes of race coverage. After awhile I switched to something more exciting, golf. Flipped back and forth all day. 10 cars on the lead lap, had there been 5 more laps, only 8 cars would have finished on the lead lap.
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lol. This guy is actually clocking the broadcast. Nah, he's not looking for anything to complain about.
 
rocket dawg said:
View attachment 33973 View attachment 33973 Under the weather yesterday so stayed on the couch all day. The race started and I just happened to have a stop watch next to me. Green flag to 30 minutes later equaled 17 minutes of commercials and 13 minutes of race coverage. After awhile I switched to something more exciting, golf. Flipped back and forth all day. 10 cars on the lead lap, had there been 5 more laps, only 8 cars would have finished on the lead lap.
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NASCAR was so much better back in the "good old days" like, for instance, 1965 in Nashville when Dick Hutcherson led every single lap and lapped the entire field, with only seven cars finishing the race, en route to his second career win.

http://racing-reference.info/race/1965_Music_City_200/W
 
rocket dawg said:
View attachment 33973 View attachment 33973 Under the weather yesterday so stayed on the couch all day. The race started and I just happened to have a stop watch next to me. Green flag to 30 minutes later equaled 17 minutes of commercials and 13 minutes of race coverage. After awhile I switched to something more exciting, golf. Flipped back and forth all day. 10 cars on the lead lap, had there been 5 more laps, only 8 cars would have finished on the lead lap.
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FYI - Total broadcast time yesterday was 183 min - Commercial time 40 min = 78% of the race was shown live.
 
Team Penske said:
Why can't you just be happy you saw a great race for second place?? Who cars if there was a car ahead of them?? What is great racing if not for 2 or 3 cars jockeying for position? Why is it only great if it is for the win??
I don't think you like racing.
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Let me tell you how much I hate racing. I had other commitments yesterday, so I DVR'd the Cup race. At 8:30 last night, I sat down to watch it, only to find out that at 3:15PM, our local Fox affiliate had gone off the air with some sort of technical glitch. Once I realized I had no race to watch, I checked the listings, set my DVR for FS1 Midnight to 3AM and went to bed. I got up at 3AM, watched the entire race, took a shower and was at work by 6:30AM. My guess is that people who don't like racing wouldn't go to that much trouble, but who knows?
 
rocket dawg said:
View attachment 33973 View attachment 33973 Under the weather yesterday so stayed on the couch all day. The race started and I just happened to have a stop watch next to me. Green flag to 30 minutes later equaled 17 minutes of commercials and 13 minutes of race coverage. After awhile I switched to something more exciting, golf. Flipped back and forth all day. 10 cars on the lead lap, had there been 5 more laps, only 8 cars would have finished on the lead lap.
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Yeah that Golf has always been an adrenaline raising sport, boy I regret what I missed watching that Nascar stuff. What happened? one of em's ball rolled into Goose ****?
 
Formerjackman said:
Let me tell you how much I hate racing. I had other commitments yesterday, so I DVR'd the Cup race. At 8:30 last night, I sat down to watch it, only to find out that at 3:15PM, our local Fox affiliate had gone off the air with some sort of technical glitch. Once I realized I had no race to watch, I checked the listings, set my DVR for FS1 Midnight to 3AM and went to bed. I got up at 3AM, watched the entire race, took a shower and was at work by 6:30AM. My guess is that people who don't like racing wouldn't go to that much trouble, but who knows?
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and all you wanted was 2 cars to bang each other coming across the finish line so it wasn't boring.
 
StandOnIt said:
Yeah that Golf has always been an adrenaline raising sport, boy I regret what I missed watching that Nascar stuff. What happened? one of em's ball rolled into Goose sh!t?
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Not at all, I dont golf and rarely watch it, unless I need a nap. Same with nascrap. Nascrap is so riveting that I mess my pants instead of miss 30 seconds of it running to the sh!tter. I cant wait until the scheduled commercials every 6 minutes. Yawn.........
 
rocket dawg said:
Not at all, I dont golf and rarely watch it, unless I need a nap. Same with nascrap. Nascrap is so riveting that I mess my pants instead of miss 30 seconds of it running to the sh!tter. I cant wait until the scheduled commercials every 6 minutes. Yawn.........
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Thats terrible, I'd quit if I was you
 
I appreciate the skills and disciplines in golf as well as the rules. I enjoy playing it and I do watch but mainly in the winter months. I doubt you are a sports fan so golf would not be something you enjoyed, IMO
 
I love golf. The only game that requires players to call penalties on themselves.

Honesty is required.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
I never said I was in favor of engines grenading or cars retiring due to other mechanical problems. I said that it did happen so it kept me on the edge of my seat. I don't advocate gremlins being introduced into cars today as those things were just a product of the times.
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OK. So please clarify, would it be accurate to say... You agree with me that the more reliable race cars of today is one improvement in the quality of Nascar racing versus back in the day, because the random lottery of equipment failure is less prevalent in affecting race results, thus emphasizing driver skill and team execution over random luck? It is a simple question, not a trick question.
 
Team Penske said:
and all you wanted was 2 cars to bang each other coming across the finish line so it wasn't boring.
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I haven't said one thing good or bad about the Cup race. It actually was better than I expected, even though "my" cars were mostly stinking up the place. Giving a choice though, I'd take what I saw Saturday over what I saw at 4AM this morning. And yes, a fender rubbing dual to the finish line makes EVERY race better. It's like a half court shot at the buzzer that goes in, or a winning touchdown pass with two seconds left.
 
Formerjackman said:
I haven't said one thing good or bad about the Cup race. It actually was better than I expected, even though "my" cars were mostly stinking up the place. Giving a choice though, I'd take what I saw Saturday over what I saw at 4AM this morning. And yes, a fender rubbing dual to the finish line makes EVERY race better. It's like a half court shot at the buzzer that goes in, or a winning touchdown pass with two seconds left.
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yeah I thought so too. The Xfinity's were restrictor plated in a way, they had to slow a little in the corners, but the top 5 were in a dog fight all day long. The body and the smaller HP put on a better show.
 
The racing isn’t the issue IMO. It’s not the greatest it’s ever been. But it’s not as boring as it is perceived by many.

The problem IMO, which is something NASCAR continues to ignore, is the TV networks. The coverage is ****** at best.

FOX and NBC refuse to follow anything going on on track outside of the top 4. Or whatever flavor of the week fake contreversy is going down. All kinds of good racing going on back in the pack. All kinds of good stories too.

We don’t need a still shot of the leader running all by himself for 2 hours. Or death by onboard. Couple that in with the barrage of commercials, usually right in the middle of pit stops, or during a battle for the lead, and you get a turd sandwich that doesn’t properly showcase the sport to the viewers.
 
LewTheShoe said:
OK. So please clarify, would it be accurate to say... You agree with me that the more reliable race cars of today is one improvement in the quality of Nascar racing versus back in the day, because the random lottery of equipment failure is less prevalent in affecting race results, thus emphasizing driver skill and team execution over random luck? It is a simple question, not a trick question.
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I wouldn't say that the improvement in the quality of cars has made racing better or worse but it has made it different. There were a whole different set of driver skills on display prior to power steering, cool suits, radial tires and things of that nature. The real issue isn't so much what makes a quality race that shows driver skill as it is about making a product that people wish to consume. After 5 races this year we have 4 that are down in the 20% range and 1 in the 15% area so even if the racing is better it isn't moving the needle. Good question!
 
LewTheShoe said:
OK. So please clarify, would it be accurate to say... You agree with me that the more reliable race cars of today is one improvement in the quality of Nascar racing versus back in the day, because the random lottery of equipment failure is less prevalent in affecting race results, thus emphasizing driver skill and team execution over random luck? It is a simple question, not a trick question.
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always falls on the death bed. :D:D:D It's his answer to everything
 
There was a more interesting discussion to be had. Not the one where the one guy has 2016's argument about increasingly dubious race manipulation and how idiotic Brian France is (of course he is), and a couple others tell us that NASCAR is the greatest and best it has ever been because at any given point NASCAR is the best it has ever been, because loyalty.

The racing is significantly different in 2018 in ways that have already been enumerated. There have been zero questionable cautions, and fewer real ones because smaller fields mean fewer backmarkers that were often the cause of multiple cautions in each event. Every race after Daytona has featured long green flag runs that separate the men from the boys. Aside from the stage breaks, these races are as pure and true tests of skill as they have been since at least the early 2000's, possibly longer.

That is either a good thing or a bad thing. For me, it is an exceedingly positive and unexpected development. I'm thrilled. To me, it looks like Brian France is as uninvolved as he has been during his tenure. It feels like adults are running things, and races are being officiated correctly. From there they can work on off-track measures to promote parity.

Others are going to disagree, and prefer races that are more engineered and directed to enforce closer finishes, more cars in contention, etc. That's the relevant debate to have in 2018.
 
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StandOnIt said:
always falls on the death bed. :D:D:D It's his answer to everything
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We certainly have different outlooks as you don't think viewership is important and as long Nascar is the #1 rated racing series all will be good. I would like for Nascar to have a product that people liked consuming that would bring in greater numbers than today.
 
gnomesayin said:
There was a more interesting discussion to be had. Not the one where the one guy has 2016's argument about increasingly dubious race manipulation and how idiotic Brian France is (of course he is), and a couple others tell us that NASCAR is the greatest and best it has ever been because at any given point NASCAR is the best it has ever been, because loyalty.

The racing is significantly different in 2018 in ways that have already been enumerated. There have been zero questionable cautions, and fewer real ones because smaller fields mean fewer backmarkers that were often the cause of multiple cautions in each event. Every race after Daytona has featured long green flag runs that separate the men from the boys. Aside from the stage breaks, these races are as pure and true tests of skill as they have been since at least the early 2000's, possibly longer.

That is either a good thing or a bad thing. For me, it is an exceedingly positive and unexpected development. I'm thrilled. To me, it looks like Brian France is as uninvolved as he has been during his tenure. It feels like adults are running things, and races are being officiated correctly. From there they can work on off-track measures to promote parity.

Others are going to disagree, and prefer races that are more engineered and directed to enforce closer finishes, more cars in contention, etc. That's the relevant debate to have in 2018.
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Excellent post, Gnomesayin. Imagine a thread that actually discusses stock car racing, LOL.

I stand with you in liking the current landscape of officiating races, which is now in its second year. I also believe the low downforce philosophy has yielded major benefits in emphasizing driver skill. Extreme aero push and inability to pass a leader who has clean air on his nose... these aero ills are not gone entirely, but have been greatly diminished. I still believe more needs to be done to reduce side force, the next big job in the aero department.
 
A hell of a lot less fans at Auto Club Speedway this year than I’ve seen in quite a while.
Brian will probably tell you it was a sellout crowd. Brian is the only sellout.
I was focused on the tailgating.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Excellent post, Gnomesayin. Imagine a thread that actually discusses stock car racing, LOL.

I stand with you in liking the current landscape of officiating races, which is now in its second year. I also believe the low downforce philosophy has yielded major benefits in emphasizing driver skill. Extreme aero push and inability to pass a leader who has clean air on his nose... these aero ills are not gone entirely, but have been greatly diminished. I still believe more needs to be done to reduce side force, the next big job in the aero department.
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The OSS tent has done wonders to reduce the tweaks the teams were doing with side force. I don't think they will stand still either. I see more sensors, maybe under the car also to detect skew and other changes in the future to come.
 
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