Brett Griffin: Garage talk is that AllStar package being used at all tracks next season

StandOnIt said:
I never thought you were fear mongering, you had a solution if Nascar quit racing tomorrow and so do I. I would suggest you watch the highlight on the other page, and the ending of the Xfinity at Indy both years. It is not so that a faster can't pull away utter made up B.S. Check them out seeing is believing at least for some anyway.. I have watched Sprint car racing for years, there is very little follow the leader, plenty of opportunities to pass if you can pull it off. And I would say Sprint car races have plenty of pack racing, but they also have plenty of passes.
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That’s fair. I would say Indy was the only place that it worked. Xfinity Michigan was pretty much a flop IMO and Pocono was worse. To be specific I believe NASCAR has an aero problem and I don’t see the fix being to make the cars more aero dependent.
 
tclarson said:
That’s fair. I would say Indy was the only place that it worked. Xfinity Michigan was pretty much a flop IMO and Pocono was worse.
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none of those had pack racing, and Pocono was won by shub in a cheated up car. Didn't work for him at Michigan though. Michigan was a decent race, but it finished under caution though. IMO they weren't any worse on those tracks than without the package, Both Michigan and Pocono produce way more yawners that good races.
 
Fans who like the current Cup racing and do not support the radical change in formula are now being told that they should shut up and go find something else to watch. That's funny. I wonder why the people who are now coming out of the closet as not liking the current racing, finding it boring and preferring the racing found in lower series instead, didn't do just that before this fix came along.
 
StandOnIt said:
I never thought you were fear mongering, you had a solution if Nascar quit racing tomorrow and so do I. I would suggest you watch the highlight on the other page, and the ending of the Xfinity at Indy both years. It is not so that a faster can't pull away utter made up B.S. Check them out seeing is believing at least for some anyway.. I have watched Sprint car racing for years, there is very little follow the leader, plenty of opportunities to pass if you can pull it off. And I would say Sprint car races have plenty of pack racing, some around here think three wide around the corner is pack racing I guess, but they have what I call passes and plenty of them.
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Pack racing is when racecars are forced to travel together in order to travel faster. Pretty damned simple.
 
gnomesayin said:
Fans who like the current Cup racing and do not support the radical change in formula are now being told that they should shut up and go find something else to watch. That's funny. I wonder why the people who are now coming out of the closet as not liking the current racing, finding it boring and preferring the racing found in lower series instead, didn't do just that before this fix came along.
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The same people call anyone who opposes this garbage “NASCAR deathbedders”, as if this move wasn’t the most “Deathbed” move they’ve ever made. It’s stereotypically astonishing on NASCAR’s end.
 
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StandOnIt said:
follow the leader is when they have a faster car and can't pass because of aero. pretty simple also
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Correct, and I would prefer this over areo changes that force cars to be in a cluster.


I like racing, I don’t mind fast cars consistently up front. I don’t mind fast cars with an occasional half straightaway on the next guy. I’ve never been more sure of it as I am now that we are having this debate.


The racing isn’t broken at all. Not every race is a barn burner and manipulating the race to make it look like one is not worth the few-a-season that end up lackluster.
 
DUN24 said:
Correct, and I would prefer this over areo changes that force cars to be in a cluster.


I like racing, I don’t mind fast cars consistently up front. I don’t mind fast cars with an occasional half straightaway on the next guy. I’ve never been more sure of it as I am now that we are having this debate.


The racing isn’t broken at all. Not every race is a barn burner and manipulating the race to make it look like one is not worth the few-a-season that end up lackluster.
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Well said. They’ve manipulated the races enough, the racing hasn’t been bad. I don’t get why they need to take away the last shreds of organic racing away and replace it with....this.
 
Refresh me as I’ve slept since then....what was the issue with the All Star racing?
 
StandOnIt said:
follow the leader is when they have a faster car and can't pass because of aero. pretty simple also
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This was a major problem in 2015, with a big reduction in horsepower and just a tiny loss of downforce versus 2014. That was the peak year of "Clean Air Is King."

Since 2015, a lot more downforce has been removed, and the aero push problem has been substantially solved. Only at one race track does the problem remain serious... Charlotte Motor Speedway... the most notorious single groove track in Nascar. The Roval hopefully deals with Charlotte's fall race successfully. To truly "fix" the World 600, Charlotte needs to install progressive banking. PJ1/Track Bite has helped but progressive banking is the real answer.
 
run down the straight at 205, tap the brakes going into the corner and back down the straight on the other side at 205 and repeat. That is all the new package has accomplished IMO at about 5 MPH slower of the same ol same ol. I would say it is better than the C.O.T. car but reducing the front tire cutting splitter and the appearance of the car have been have been the largest changes lately. Progressive banking has done a little, but the all important clean air leader car or any car in front of another can dirty the air and keep a faster car behind them. They have gone high downforce and low downforce, not much difference between the two. And there it is.
 
So it seems the answer may be in lower speeds, no downforce and top of the engines at 650 HP using smaller engines right after changing one end at every track to make the ovals a bit shorter.:sarcasm:
 
StandOnIt said:
run down the straight at 205, tap the brakes going into the corner and back down the straight on the other side at 205 and repeat. That is all the new package has accomplished IMO
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This is on the same plain as people saying all NASCAR drivers do is turn left and go fast.

An incredibly simplified version of the truth that totally misses the hard facts about drivers throttle feathering, how the engineers have gained downforce back and have learned about sideforce.

If it’s so simple, every team would be competing for wins but in reality only about 5 teams have a legitimate shot to win each week based on speed alone.
 
Adam Stern's sources seem to be saying the original plan has been accepted by the race teams... use the "drafting package" at most all of the downforce tracks, but not at short tracks, 1-mile tracks, road courses. I'm totally opposed to this, but am aware that Stern has a good record on being accurate when he reports such matters, sigh.

 
What is going to be hard to drive is going to be this weekend. What is going to be challenging will be whatever the new rules package is next year. The mega teams will do what they do, none of the names out front will change, but they will have to race harder to get there.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Adam Stern's sources seem to be saying the original plan has been accepted by the race teams... use the "drafting package" at most all of the downforce tracks, but not at short tracks, 1-mile tracks, road courses. I'm totally opposed to this, but am aware that Stern has a good record on being accurate when he reports such matters, sigh.

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Bummer. I really wonder how this is going to look a year from now. Will the industry be happy they went in this direction and will be fans still be in an uproar. You know I was young at the time but this looks and seems like its starting to look like the CART/INDY Car Civil War. NASCAR is doing what the owners want to try to drive down costs but will this really drive it down when we have a Big One every weekend? Once the owners are tired of footing that bill, it'll be interesting to see. Wish NASCAR had a strong leadership individual like Big Bill or Bill Jr to really steer the ship.
 
I post this not because Tony Stewart is always right. He isn't. But he adds to the chorus of stakeholders, insiders, and knowledgeable observers who get that this 'entertainment' gambit isn't the solution for a premiere auto racing series. On the other side is a bunch of false hope about what "the fans" supposedly want and how they'll come back on droves. Nothing that has been sold on this basis in the past decade has worked to that end.

 
LewTheShoe said:
Adam Stern's sources seem to be saying the original plan has been accepted by the race teams... use the "drafting package" at most all of the downforce tracks, but not at short tracks, 1-mile tracks, road courses. I'm totally opposed to this, but am aware that Stern has a good record on being accurate when he reports such matters, sigh.

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Lol @ the dudes here criticizing people here for referring to it as the "all star package" and assuming that they would "fine tune it" and we would see an improved package next year over the 18' All Star Race. They are talking about running the "original" plan. The same drafting bull****. Reap what you sow, NASCAR.



I can only pray that this backfires and they revert back to some common sense with the schedule and the car in 2019/2020
 
StandOnIt said:
What is going to be hard to drive is going to be this weekend. What is going to be challenging will be whatever the new rules package is next year. The mega teams will do what they do, none of the names out front will change, but they will have to race harder to get there.
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You need to quit bogarting all the kool-aid, I'm going to need some too.
 
Looks like I need to get down to Homestead for one last time this year. I don't care if that's one of the few intermediates they run unrestricted (I know, it's a spacer...) for the foreseeable future but in general I don't anticipate going to anymore races or watching more than the unrestricted half on TV if they've decided this direction is what the sport needs. Plenty of other series to keep following out there.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Looks like I need to get down to Homestead for one last time this year. I don't care if that's one of the few intermediates they run unrestricted (I know, it's a spacer...) for the foreseeable future but in general I don't anticipate going to anymore races or watching more than the unrestricted half on TV if they've decided this direction is what the sport needs. Plenty of other series to keep following out there.
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I'll still be following but there is a very high chance I'll be saving my money and staying out of the stands next year, perhaps maybe a LB GP finally instead of Fontana.
 
DUN24 said:
I'll still be following but there is a very high chance I'll be saving my money and staying out of the stands next year, perhaps maybe a LB GP finally instead of Fontana.
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Yup, I'll stick to the OG plate races across the state and that'll be it.
 
NASCAR finalizing 2019 rules package for Cup
The rules package will have elements of what was run in the All-Star Race in May, but restrictor plates will not be a part of the package.

Instead, tapered spacers will be used to regulate horsepower. NASCAR also will legislate the use of aero ducts. About half of the races are expected to use this type of package.

https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/09/27/nascar-finalizing-2019-rules-package-for-cup/

here you guys can throw darts at these two
Car owners Richard Childress and Roger Penske both said in May that they’d be willing to try try the package used in the All-Star Race in other races this season. NASCAR decided not to add the package for any other races this season in Cup.
 
Cherry picking people...


'ITS A TAPERED SPACER NOT A PLATE'

'THESE TWO WERE WILLING TO TRY IT TWICE SO ITS THEIR FAULT ITS GOING TO BE THE PACKAGE AT ALL THE CIRCLE TRACKS OVER A MILE LONG'
 
gnomesayin said:
I post this not because Tony Stewart is always right. He isn't. But he adds to the chorus of stakeholders, insiders, and knowledgeable observers who get that this 'entertainment' gambit isn't the solution for a premiere auto racing series. On the other side is a bunch of false hope about what "the fans" supposedly want and how they'll come back on droves. Nothing that has been sold on this basis in the past decade has worked to that end.

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Sounds like Tony as an owner is concerned about the costs and that the Fans don't know what it takes for a change. :idunno: Both the Xfinities and the Trucks run a tapered spacer and have for awhile.

“To me it was more what the drivers and the crew chiefs thought about it,” car owner Tony Stewart told SiriusXM NASCAR Radio on Thursday. “Ultimately, from the owner’s standpoint what does it cost to do that. There’s much more to it than what the fans realize as far as doing a package like that. Now, you’re developing a motor for that package. All three manufacturers have to worry about development costs for motors. The cars have different things you have to do to them, which that is not the huge expense. The motor side of it is the biggest piece.:”
https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/09/27/nascar-finalizing-2019-rules-package-for-cup/
 
Oh, Stewart has said much more than that, and recently, and it was posted here. Anyone paying attention knows what he and the majority of racers think of this farce.

https://autoweek.com/article/nascar...scar-implementing-all-star-race-rules-package

Never one to hold back a strong opinion, team owner and former driver Tony Stewart said the drafting package is the embodiment of everything he has opposed in NASCAR over the past decade.

"I'll put it like this, I'm not in favor of anything that makes these cars easier to drive," Stewart said. "It started with the splitters and the other crap they pulled from sport cars and installed on the Car of Tomorrow and it's gotten worse from there.
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But, you know, Marcus Smith finally found a race he wanted to pay attention to, so it's all good.
 
Drivers doing their best to discourage everybody. I think I will go by what Bill France Jr. said, if the drivers hate it the fans like it, if the drivers like it the fans hate it.
 
tclarson said:
.... To be specific I believe NASCAR has an aero problem and I don’t see the fix being to make the cars more aero dependent.
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One solution that Nascar has not pursued is Drag reduction.

The bodies on the current stock cars could be redesigned to still look like the manufacturers cars, but generate much less drag than they do now.

The less drag they generate the less the dirty air effects the cars behind them.

Not a cure-all, but something that would help a lot, and I don't think anyone at Nascar has even floated the idea before.
 
StandOnIt said:
Drivers doing their best to discourage everybody. I think I will go by what Bill France Jr. said, if the drivers hate it the fans like it, if the drivers like it the fans hate it.
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Bill Junior is rolling in his grave, again


Also again, that old drivers hate it fans must love it saying is a lot more applicable for less noticable changes, not something that completely annihilates the performance of the cars
 
TwoZero said:
One solution that Nascar has not pursued is Drag reduction.

The bodies on the current stock cars could be redesigned to still look like the manufacturers cars, but generate much less drag than they do now.

The less drag they generate the less the dirty air effects the cars behind them.

Not a cure-all, but something that would help a lot, and I don't think anyone at Nascar has even floated the idea before.
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That is what the latest package is, low downforce (drag) package brought about after the high downforce high drag package. This newest package creates a different kind of drag, makes the leading car create a bigger hole with the air, so cars behind can get a run and at least attempt a pass and be able to carry it thru a corner, instead of first car into the corner is gone.
 
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StandOnIt said:
That is what the latest package is, low downforce (drag) package brought about after the high downforce high drag package. This newest package creates a different kind of drag, makes the leading car create a bigger hole with the air, so cars behind can get a run and at least attempt a pass and be able to carry it thru a corner, instead of first car into the corner is gone.
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The current "package" is the equivalent of an aero band-aid.

I'm talking about a clean sheet re-shaping of the body panels to get maximum drag reduction while still looking like the production cars.

In fact they would actually look more like the production cars rather than the slightly different front bumpers that they have now.
 
TwoZero said:
The current "package" is the equivalent of an aero band-aid.

I'm talking about a clean sheet re-shaping of the body panels to get maximum drag reduction while still looking like the production cars.

In fact they would actually look more like the production cars rather than the slightly different front bumpers that they have now.
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they had that years ago already. Teams would switch brands to whatever car was better aero than the other. The system they have now, the cars are pretty close, as close as they can be to the same but look similar to production cars. Its a race car not a street stock.
 
StandOnIt said:
they had that years ago already. Teams would switch brands to whatever car was better aero than the other. The system they have now, the cars are pretty close, as close as they can be to the same but look similar to production cars. Its a race car not a street stock.
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I'm not talking about street stock. And what they did years ago was obviously done badly if what you described took place.

We have had improvements in wind tunnel technology since and I think it is worth another go.
 
gnomesayin said:
Oh, Stewart has said much more than that, and recently, and it was posted here. Anyone paying attention knows what he and the majority of racers think of this farce.

https://autoweek.com/article/nascar...scar-implementing-all-star-race-rules-package



But, you know, Marcus Smith finally found a race he wanted to pay attention to, so it's all good.
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I was told yesterday that these cars haven't been hard to drive since the 90's.

I've lost count now of how many drivers and former champions have bothered to acknowledge level of difficulty in their remarks when talking about this crusty ass package. And totally on their own too. It's like they actually know something, weird.
 
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