Cup RACE thread --- 600

StandOnIt said:
Nascar had three choices IMO. They could have run it, they could have called it or they could have run it the next day. I'm not buying the too much humidity excuse but that is what they picked. They got their money, the TV got theirs, and everybody else got screwed out of a finish.
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From what I read last night and this morning, got a gut feeling Fox was the one to pull the plug on it.
 
rd45usa said:
From what I read last night and this morning, got a gut feeling Fox was the one to pull the plug on it.
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I'm pretty sure the rumors will fly. Pick one. You know nobody in either camp will spill the beans, Hamlin, DBC, stacking pennies and JR will all have their stories to cater to their crowds. If would be nice for either Nascar OR Fox to man up and tell us what was really the deal but they won't.
We all have radar so rain in the area and was coming won't work, so what really was the reason?
 
I read a dozen or so comments at the start of page 7. Usual complaints from the usual suspects. NASCAR has never resumed a race the next day once it reached halfway. There was no reason for last night to be an exception.
 
2 Sweet said:
I don't believe these statements are accurate. Of course I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain there have been rain delayed NASCAR races that finished the next day, despite the delay coming AFTER the halfway point.

Regardless, if there's any event on the schedule that could have handled a Monday completion without much of an inconvenience to anyone, it's this race. NASCAR dropped the ball.
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You maybe correct but I don't recall it happening in the discussed context for a cup race. Maybe it has happened but if that's the case it seems like an example or citation could be found.
 
2 Sweet said:
I don't believe these statements are accurate. Of course I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain there have been rain delayed NASCAR races that finished the next day, despite the delay coming AFTER the halfway point.

Regardless, if there's any event on the schedule that could have handled a Monday completion without much of an inconvenience to anyone, it's this race. NASCAR dropped the ball.
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Then at what point do we say enough? Do we come back with 20 laps? 10? Like there has to be a cut off, but they could’ve, but I can’t remember if it’s official at Halfway, or end of Stage 2 right now. I remember at one point it was at the end of Stage 2, and that could’ve been a time where it came back after halfway as sometimes those didn’t line up maybe. But once the race is official, they never sent everyone home to come back the next day, UNLESS it was maybe a time before they had the rule. But regardless ifs halfway or end of stage 2 doesn’t matter here, given both are the same thing in this case. Race is official, they could have tried harder to get it in last night, I won’t dispute that.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I read a dozen or so comments at the start of page 7. Usual complaints from the usual suspects. NASCAR has never resumed a race the next day once it reached halfway. There was no reason for last night to be an exception.
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NASCAR has never given a driver a waiver to race in another series so he can maintain his eligibility, this was a " move the needle event" that all sports look for. They certainly could have and should have run the race today. How people are being so short sited is baffling.
 
JJ_14 said:
Don't the rules state that the race is official after halfway? NASCAR has gotten a lot of flak in the past for being inconsistent with their rules.

It would've been nice to see Larson at Charlotte, but mother nature had other plans.
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Mother Nature hates Larson, like the fact it was the exact same storm is crazy. Like it’s not two different storms, that’s the ****** crazy part to me lmao.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
How is this bad for NASCAR? NASCAR did just fine before Kyle Larson and will do just fine after him. There is no driver that important to NASCAR including Chase. The sport has seen greats come and go and continued to move on.
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They’ll be fine but it was also a case of everything that could go wrong going wrong. I’m sure NASCAR would have preferred no rain and the spectacle of Larson actually completing the 1100 miles. Not to mention, they had a crown jewel race shortened in a way that pissed off their fanbase (which admittedly isn’t hard to do) and are now in the awkward position of having to give Larson a waiver or risk pissing off their fanbase even more.

Does this damage the sport? No. Is it still bad? Yes.
 
JJ_14 said:
Don't the rules state that the race is official after halfway? NASCAR has gotten a lot of flak in the past for being inconsistent with their rules.

It would've been nice to see Larson at Charlotte, but mother nature had other plans.
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Its official if they don't restart.
 
Spotter22 said:
Its official if they don't restart.
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Exactly.

Everyone knows what the rule is, and everyone knows it's an "official" race once you get past halfway, if they decide to call it due to weather or whatever else. OK, great....and how is that relevant in this discussion? Who cares if it's official or not? Why are we even talking about this?

Nobody is questioning the rule; we're simply questioning the logic to call it when they didn't have to call it.
 
There should be a rule somewhere that would clarify this all up. It isn’t something I’m interested in enough to go look for it but I’m sure someone will.
 
I bought tickets to the Richmond summer race during the 600 yesterday. Hopefully it doesn't rain or get lightning delayed halfway through and they tell the fans to go fly a kite again!

NASCAR blew a golden opportunity last night. I almost regret spending money on a race now.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I read a dozen or so comments at the start of page 7. Usual complaints from the usual suspects. NASCAR has never resumed a race the next day once it reached halfway. There was no reason for last night to be an exception.
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^ this, emphasis on the word "never"
Greg said:
You maybe correct but I don't recall it happening in the discussed context for a cup race. Maybe it has happened but if that's the case it seems like an example or citation could be found.
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good luck wit dat

Regarding the arguments made for NASCAR to have finished the race on Monday, without a doubt it would have been great regardless of the rules or precedent.

But they didn't.

What time does the race start next Sunday ?
 
Nitro Dude said:
There should be a rule somewhere that would clarify this all up. It isn’t something I’m interested in enough to go look for it but I’m sure someone will.
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The rule is pretty clear to me. Some folks are completely overthinking this, suggesting the rule states NASCAR can not resume an official race at 1am or 11am or even the following Tuesday. That's simply not true. They could have run the race today without breaking any of their rules, and everyone would have been happy. That's the bottom line.
 
How many fans wouldn’t have wanted to see the end of this race?
NASCAR is consistently inconsistent. They need to think about the fanbase once in a while.
 
2 Sweet said:
The rule is pretty clear to me. Some folks are completely overthinking this, suggesting the rule states NASCAR can not resume an official race at 1am or 11am or even the following Tuesday. That's simply not true. They could have run the race today without breaking any of their rules, and everyone would have been happy. That's the bottom line.
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I have never actually read the rule myself but that has always been my understanding also.
 
Again I ask, when is enough enough? Would you bring in all those fans the next day and everything for 20 laps? I mean yes I know it was more than 20 laps, no one has to point it out. The point being, you HAVE to have a cut off. So how many laps left is enough for everyone?

Until someone can show me a time where they came back the next day(and no, not something that’s like 12 am to like 3 am) after sending everyone home, when it was an official race, then you have zero ground to stand on.
 
Blaze said:
Again I ask, when is enough enough? Would you bring in all those fans the next day and everything for 20 laps? I mean yes I know it was more than 20 laps, no one has to point it out. The point being, you HAVE to have a cut off. So how many laps left is enough for everyone?

Until someone can show me a time where they came back the next day(and no, not something that’s like 12 am to like 3 am) after sending everyone home, when it was an official race, then you have zero ground to stand on.
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It's a judgment call. Like I always say, context matters. The overwhelming majority of the NASCAR industry lives near Charlotte. Most of the fans aren't working today, being a holiday weekend. There was 150-something laps left!
 
2 Sweet said:
It's a judgment call. Like I always say, context matters. The overwhelming majority of the NASCAR industry lives near Charlotte. Most of the fans aren't working today, being a holiday weekend. There was 150-something laps left!
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So no answer to my question at all?
 
Apparently Nascar's magic witching hour was 2 A.M. (which time zone?). So lets tell the public too much humidity, they will buy that story.

 
Blaze said:
So no answer to my question at all?
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Yes, I would bring the fans back and finish today. I'm willing to bet less than one percent of the fans in attendance were satisfied with the race being called last night. Most would have been back today, and for those who couldn't, what does it matter? What does it change for them? Absolutely nothing.

And no, you absolutely do not need a specific "cutoff" as you said, regarding the remaining laps. It's a judgment call on a case by case basis, since there are wayyyyyyy too many variables. Again, context is everything.
 
2 Sweet said:
Yes, I would bring the fans back and finish today. I'm willing to bet less than one percent of the fans in attendance were satisfied with the race being called last night. Most would have been back today, and for those who couldn't, what does it matter? What does it change for them? Absolutely nothing.

And no, you absolutely do not need a specific "cutoff" as you said, regarding the remaining laps. It's a judgment call on a case by case basis, since there are wayyyyyyy too many variables. Again, context is everything.
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Lol alright then. I guess agree to disagree because I think this is ridiculous as hell. This is always how it’s been as long as I can remember. Normally fans bitch and moan if they change something on the fly, but want it here. Fans call NASCAR inconsistent and here fans are being inconsistent crying because they didn’t change something that’s always been the way.
 
Blaze said:
Lol alright then. I guess agree to disagree because I think this is ridiculous as hell. This is always how it’s been as long as I can remember. Normally fans bitch and moan if they change something on the fly, but want it here. Fans call NASCAR inconsistent and here fans are being inconsistent crying because they didn’t change something that’s always been the way.
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The way it has always been? OK, here's how it normally works. The sanctioning body weighs all factors, uses their collective brainpower, and employs their deductive reasoning skills to reach a logical conclusion. What would they be changing on the fly? Absolutely nothing.

Last night's end result is not comparable to your average rain shortened event. Normally, NASCAR makes the right call. This time, they didn't.
 
2 Sweet said:
The way it has always been? OK, here's how it normally works. The sanctioning body weighs all factors, uses their collective brainpower, and employs their deductive reasoning skills to reach a logical conclusion. What would they be changing on the fly? Absolutely nothing.

Last night's end result is not comparable to your average rain shortened event. Normally, NASCAR makes the right call. This time, they didn't.
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What would they be changing? The fact they never after the race reaches the official mark, NEVER have came back the next day. Keyword CAME BACK, so don’t point out a time they restarted at 1 am or something because they never left. So if they said “oh because this is important to Kyle Larson, we’re gonna do something we never done before, and come back tomorrow even though this race is official.” That would be changing something on the fly.
 
2 Sweet said:
The rule is pretty clear to me. Some folks are completely overthinking this, suggesting the rule states NASCAR can not resume an official race at 1am or 11am or even the following Tuesday. That's simply not true. They could have run the race today without breaking any of their rules, and everyone would have been happy. That's the bottom line.
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100% Correct
 
Blaze said:
What would they be changing? The fact they never after the race reaches the official mark, NEVER have came back the next day. Keyword CAME BACK, so don’t point out a time they restarted at 1 am or something because they never left. So if they said “oh because this is important to Kyle Larson, we’re gonna do something we never done before, and come back tomorrow even though this race is official.” That would be changing something on the fly.
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Apples and elephants. And the race isn't "official" until they say it is, which is the whole point of this discussion.

How many events are run on a Sunday night, before a holiday, in the heart of NASCAR country, where everyone lives a few miles away? Exactly one event.....the Coca Cola 600. Who cares about some half capacity race at Pocono where they have 20 laps left and rain in the forecast the next two days? Of course they aren't coming back Monday, because it doesn't make sense.

Can you provide one good reason why they were right to call it last night? Other than "that's what they always do when it's official"....do you really think the fans who bought tickets are happy it got called? Who wins in this situation?
 
2 Sweet said:
Apples and elephants. And the race isn't "official" until they say it is, which is the whole point of this discussion.

How many events are run on a Sunday night, before a holiday, in the heart of NASCAR country, where everyone lives a few miles away? Exactly one event.....the Coca Cola 600. Who cares about some half capacity race at Pocono where they have 20 laps left and rain in the forecast the next two days? Of course they aren't coming back Monday, because it doesn't make sense.

Can you provide one good reason why they were right to call it last night? Other than "that's what they always do when it's official"....do you really think the fans who bought tickets are happy it got called? Who wins in this situation?
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You’re just not going to understand lmao. It’s pointless to keep going back and forth. Because no other reason is needed. Rules are rules. You can take the rule however you like, it doesn’t make it true. It sucks fkr the fans, it sucks for Larson. But it isn’t the first time it won’t be the last time. Now I’m done.
 
Spotter22 said:
He answered it, you didn't like it. It’s a judgement call and of course they would come back for 20 laps, over 100. yes.
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No he didn’t lol. As I asked when do you have a cut off. Because you need one. They have one, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it should change. End of discussion.
 
Blaze said:
You’re just not going to understand lmao. It’s pointless to keep going back and forth. Because no other reason is needed. Rules are rules. You can take the rule however you like, it doesn’t make it true. It sucks fkr the fans, it sucks for Larson. But it isn’t the first time it won’t be the last time. Now I’m done.
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The rule? They can't call a race unless it gets to halfway. It's really that simple, and has absolutely nothing to do with their decision to call it last night. Fact.
 
Blaze said:
No he didn’t lol. As I asked when do you have a cut off. Because you need one. They have one, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it should change. End of discussion.
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You don't tell me when I end a discussion, if you want to bow out hit the door. You not comprehending the rule is your problem.
 
Why then did Nascar tell Coach Gibbs 15 minutes till they call the drivers back?
 
Joe Gibbs said they were notified they would head back to pit road to start prepping cars within 15 minutes right before it was called. It feels like a very TV-determined outcome. No question they weren’t going to postpone the resumption to Monday, but it’s odd that they seemingly gave up on track drying so quickly, and people were posting pictures of an unaided drying track within the next hour or two. The least you can do is give the impression of putting in a speck of effort.
 
On a day when you pay homage to military that gave the ultimate sacrifice, who never gave up, Nascar quit on the fans. SMDH!
 
Nitro Dude said:
There should be a rule somewhere that would clarify this all up. It isn’t something I’m interested in enough to go look for it but I’m sure someone will.
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“NASCAR has rules based on weather. If a race has started and drivers have completed 50 percent of the laps or traveled half of the way, then whoever was in the lead when it started to rain/other inclement weather wins. If the race has not traveled at least half of the way, then the race will be on a weather delay or postponed to the following day, and a winner will be determined when it‘s restarted.“

Source: https://www.nascarhall.com/plan-a-v...e has not,or inclement weather is anticipated.

That one definitely isn’t completely worded accurately, because it will go into a delay still even passed halfway.


“
Among the other changes NASCAR outlined Tuesday at its R&D Center in Concord, N.C.:

  • A race will be considered official if it has reached the end of Stage 2, or if more than half of the scheduled distance of the event has been completed, whichever comes first.”
Source: https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/nascar-stage-lengths-weather-policy/4677852/


“According to NASCAR’s weather policy, if the race is at its halfway point when inclement weather strikes, NASCAR will end the race and declare the winner. However, if it’s just a brief shower the race will continue after a weather delay.”
Source: https://www.wcnc.com/article/weathe...r-iq/275-366570ab-56c0-47fe-aebd-3e6e15cbe49d
 
Blaze said:
“NASCAR has rules based on weather. If a race has started and drivers have completed 50 percent of the laps or traveled half of the way, then whoever was in the lead when it started to rain/other inclement weather wins. If the race has not traveled at least half of the way, then the race will be on a weather delay or postponed to the following day, and a winner will be determined when it‘s restarted.“

Source: https://www.nascarhall.com/plan-a-visit/online-education/weather-in-racing-k-1#:~:text=If the race has not,or inclement weather is anticipated.

That one definitely isn’t completely worded accurately, because it will go into a delay still even passed halfway.


“
Among the other changes NASCAR outlined Tuesday at its R&D Center in Concord, N.C.:

  • A race will be considered official if it has reached the end of Stage 2, or if more than half of the scheduled distance of the event has been completed, whichever comes first.”
Source: https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/nascar-stage-lengths-weather-policy/4677852/


“According to NASCAR’s weather policy, if the race is at its halfway point when inclement weather strikes, NASCAR will end the race and declare the winner. However, if it’s just a brief shower the race will continue after a weather delay.”
Source: https://www.wcnc.com/article/weathe...r-iq/275-366570ab-56c0-47fe-aebd-3e6e15cbe49d
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You are taking things to literally, if you go by those definitions they wouldn't have even rolled the dryers
 
Greg said:
But I don't think race control should change the way things are handled.
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Including the start time for a driver to airrive? They were willing to do that....
 
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