Cup RACE thread --- Watkins Glen

Formerjackman

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Don’t forget about that truck race in Canada where he straight up dumped one of the Dillon brothers on tbe final turn but I’m sure chase fans will have 1 million excuses for it too (this isn’t directed at you I’m just saying the Golden Boy can do no wrong)


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You know, I saw that when it happened, and and have always said it was a cringe worthy moment for Chase, but after years of hearing people continue to dredge up a mistake he made when he was 17 years old, I went back analyzed that last lap frame by frame over and over, and I came to the conclusion that it wasn't NEARLY as bad as I remembered it. Yeah, Chase probably should have tried harder to get off of him, Dillon DID chop him off pretty bad. Now the Logano wreck at Bristol, no, I'm not going to defend THAT one.
 

ahhculdee

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None of the guys who chose the outside this weekend are stupid. The outside IS the place to be unless somebody runs into you. Larson ran Chase clean on the previous restart, and probably assumed that he would that time too. I am ALWAYS weary of the outside at ANY track, because I've seen the guy on the outside get cleaned out a million times, yet on the majority of the tracks in NASCAR, drivers continue to take the outside line because they feel it is faster, and they can get away from the mayhem behind them. Drivers being drivers, will take speed over security almost every time.
It's final restart if you don't expect someone to race for the win even your teammates you are mistaken.
 

FLRacingFan

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None of the guys who chose the outside this weekend are stupid. The outside IS the place to be unless somebody runs into you. Larson ran Chase clean on the previous restart, and probably assumed that he would that time too. I am ALWAYS weary of the outside at ANY track, because I've seen the guy on the outside get cleaned out a million times, yet on the majority of the tracks in NASCAR, drivers continue to take the outside line because they feel it is faster, and they can get away from the mayhem behind them. Drivers being drivers, will take speed over security almost every time.
It’s definitely the place to be most of the time, but with how these races work now you have to expect a lot more send at lap 85 than at lap 21. Sammy Smith got cleaned out from the lead much the same way at the end of the ARCA race. I’ll grant Chase that being right in front of AJ, with nothing to lose, isn’t much more attractive. But when it gets down to it I think I wanna be the guy doing the shoving wide. Not an enviable position to be in either way.

I think (and hope) Larson still has something coming his way - teammates or not. Chase hasn’t backed down from a fight in several years, and The Last True Racer has cost him two different victory opportunities now regardless of what you call it. And I won’t be upset when that happens.
 

StandOnIt

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None of the guys who chose the outside this weekend are stupid. The outside IS the place to be unless somebody runs into you. Larson ran Chase clean on the previous restart, and probably assumed that he would that time too. I am ALWAYS weary of the outside at ANY track, because I've seen the guy on the outside get cleaned out a million times, yet on the majority of the tracks in NASCAR, drivers continue to take the outside line because they feel it is faster, and they can get away from the mayhem behind them. Drivers being drivers, will take speed over security almost every time.
LOL. Gilliland started on the inside lane, came thru and out front. McDowell at the start of the last stage with Elliott on the outside lane comes out of the turn in first place despite Elliott slamming into his rear end. You would have thought Elliott would have figured out the outside is not the place to be. Fans it's a different story lol.
It's right here at the 109:30 mark

 

Formerjackman

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Well, I guess you should be driving the 9 car instead of Chase. I get that it didn't end well for any of the guys that lined up outside this weekend, but are REASONS why they did it. As I said, I have seldom if ever seen drivers take the safe option over the speed option, even when circumstances would appear to warrant it.
 

StandOnIt

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Well, I guess you should be driving the 9 car instead of Chase. I get that it didn't end well for any of the guys that lined up outside this weekend, but are REASONS why they did it. As I said, I have seldom if ever seen drivers take the safe option over the speed option, even when circumstances would appear to warrant it.
it wasn't the speed option all weekend. It was first car after the lane choice car lol.
 

AuzGrams

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Well, I guess you should be driving the 9 car instead of Chase. I get that it didn't end well for any of the guys that lined up outside this weekend, but are REASONS why they did it. As I said, I have seldom if ever seen drivers take the safe option over the speed option, even when circumstances would appear to warrant it.

Who wouldn’t wanna see SOI at Hendrick Motorsports lol. Hell yeah.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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Glad you finally figured it out.
tenor.gif
 

Dr_B_UNC

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Hell, they already know Elliott picked the wrong dam lane and if you haven't figured that out yet I'm not surprised.
Hindsight being 20/20, yep. Wrong lane.
BUT... as has been said numerous times, their reasoning was sound. Outside was preferred lane all weekend, Chase had just beaten Larson from outside previous restart a couple laps prior and built a 2 second lead. They were worried about 16 going full send, and he was going to be inside. They felt safer having teammate cover the wildcard 16. It didn't work out, but it's not like Chase was wiping drool off his chin and saying "durrrrr" while making the decision.
 

jaqua19

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Hindsight being 20/20, yep. Wrong lane.
BUT... as has been said numerous times, their reasoning was sound. Outside was preferred lane all weekend, Chase had just beaten Larson from outside previous restart a couple laps prior and built a 2 second lead. They were worried about 16 going full send, and he was going to be inside. They felt safer having teammate cover the wildcard 16. It didn't work out, but it's not like Chase was wiping drool off his chin and saying "durrrrr" while making the decision.
"yaahhheehh that's short track racing, eyyhughy"

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StandOnIt

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Hindsight being 20/20, yep. Wrong lane.
BUT... as has been said numerous times, their reasoning was sound. Outside was preferred lane all weekend, Chase had just beaten Larson from outside previous restart a couple laps prior and built a 2 second lead. They were worried about 16 going full send, and he was going to be inside. They felt safer having teammate cover the wildcard 16. It didn't work out, but it's not like Chase was wiping drool off his chin and saying "durrrrr" while making the decision.
That is completely wrong. The only car that started on the outside lane was Chase Elliott. Wake up, take off your fan boi glasses and face reality.
 

LewTheShoe

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It’s definitely the place to be most of the time, but with how these races work now you have to expect a lot more send at lap 85 than at lap 21. Sammy Smith got cleaned out from the lead much the same way at the end of the ARCA race. I’ll grant Chase that being right in front of AJ, with nothing to lose, isn’t much more attractive. But when it gets down to it I think I wanna be the guy doing the shoving wide. Not an enviable position to be in either way.

I think (and hope) Larson still has something coming his way - teammates or not. Chase hasn’t backed down from a fight in several years, and The Last True Racer has cost him two different victory opportunities now regardless of what you call it. And I won’t be upset when that happens.
It's not often that I fundamentally disagree with @FLRacingFan, but this time I do. FL is saying... (a) it's a dirty move but (b) Chase should have expected that and therefore selected the inside lane, and (c) since he didn't do that he now owes payback to Larson.

I'm as critical as anyone of the "crash 'em to pass 'em" ethos that has always existed in Nascar but has become more prevalent in recent years. But this was not an example of that. This was just hard aggressive but fair racing IMO. So I don't think Chase owes payback for this incident (although I won't defend Larson in the earlier incident at Fontana, which was an egregiously late block at best). Just my dos centavos.

And like @StandOnIt just said, the inside lane was generally more successful all day long. It's not about which lane is faster, it's all about which lane defends your P1 starting position.
 

StandOnIt

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It's not often that I fundamentally disagree with @FLRacingFan, but this time I do. FL is saying... (a) it's a dirty move but (b) Chase should have expected that and therefore selected the inside lane, and (c) since he didn't do that he now owes payback to Larson.

I'm as critical as anyone of the "crash 'em to pass 'em" ethos that has always existed in Nascar but has become more prevalent in recent years. But this was not an example of that. This was just hard aggressive but fair racing IMO. So I don't think Chase owes payback for this incident (although I won't defend Larson in the earlier incident at Fontana, which was an egregiously late block at best). Just my dos centavos.
For sure and the A.J. story is pretty far fetched. A.J. seldom takes anybody out, he does the same thing as Larson did. He will rub you not wreck you.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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That is completely wrong. The only car that started on the outside lane was Chase Elliott. Wake up, take off your fan boi glasses and face reality.
Sigh. Look above you, what I said just went wizzing by. THE REASON THEY TOOK HIGH WAS TO BE IN THE OPPOSITE LANE OF THE 16 WHO THEY THOUGHT WOULD BANZAI THE CORNER. Thanks for confirming what I just said. I know what was said on the radio. You apparently don't but keep doubling down.
 

Charlie Spencer

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That is completely wrong. The only car that started on the outside lane was Chase Elliott. Wake up, take off your fan boi glasses and face reality.
I recall the outside lane worked pretty well in the ARCA and X races.

Right up until the money restarts ...
 

Dr_B_UNC

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I recall the outside lane worked pretty well in the ARCA and X races.

Right up until the money restarts ...
This. X and Cup both had P1 start outside and get taken out on final restart. Now I just need discipline to stop biting at the bait in the water.
 

Charlie Spencer

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Now I just need discipline to stop biting at the bait in the water.
I need to stop clicking 'Show ignored content'. I think I was broken of that habit this weekend, but recovery is continuous process.

In all of the races this weekend, neither of the front two on the last restart wound up winning.
 

StandOnIt

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StandOnIt

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This. X and Cup both had P1 start outside and get taken out on final restart. Now I just need discipline to stop biting at the bait in the water.
not true. The inside with Byron in the 17 was ahead of Gibbs out of turn one who started on the outside. It wasn't until Gibbs took out Byron in the bus stop that Larson led the rest and won the race. But again maybe Elliott didn't watch the race or pay attention to which llane was coming out on top in the Cup race

@ the 7:34 mark is the last restart.

 

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I don't understand why the meeting seemed to basically be "lecture Kyle"

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Ford 222

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Point to the doll where Chase hurt you. ;)

I never once played victim. I really thought I laid out a logical retort. I even said it's another race lost on a restart due to a late caution. On to Daytona where Kes actually has a prayer.
Seems every Chase fan blames his misfortune on his CC, other drivers, NASCAR, or Chevrolet. And to say you all thought “oh no” when he walled Logano is laughable. Somehow that was Chase’s corner and Logano should have not been there. Don’t take it too personal, it just SEEMS like all of you.
 

Greg

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This has been a troubling week with many stressful sleepless nights. I dont understand why the Lord had let me suffer all the anguish.
The Chase and Kyle falling out has hurt my soul and every bone in my body and I just cant bear much more.

I have been so upset about that I just remembered that I haven't checked on the status of Prince Phillip and Harry all week to see if they are getting along any better.
I was just starting to get over the Johnny Depp and Amanda Heard thing and the recovery was going so good until Sunday afternoon.

Lord please help me I just cant take all this pressure.
 

ahhculdee

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Seems every Chase fan blames his misfortune on his CC, other drivers, NASCAR, or Chevrolet. And to say you all thought “oh no” when he walled Logano is laughable. Somehow that was Chase’s corner and Logano should have not been there. Don’t take it too personal, it just SEEMS like all of you.
Chase is spoiled tbh
 

FLRacingFan

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It's not often that I fundamentally disagree with @FLRacingFan, but this time I do. FL is saying... (a) it's a dirty move but (b) Chase should have expected that and therefore selected the inside lane, and (c) since he didn't do that he now owes payback to Larson.

I'm as critical as anyone of the "crash 'em to pass 'em" ethos that has always existed in Nascar but has become more prevalent in recent years. But this was not an example of that. This was just hard aggressive but fair racing IMO. So I don't think Chase owes payback for this incident (although I won't defend Larson in the earlier incident at Fontana, which was an egregiously late block at best). Just my dos centavos.

And like @StandOnIt just said, the inside lane was generally more successful all day long. It's not about which lane is faster, it's all about which lane defends your P1 starting position.
Taking the inside would’ve been risk mitigation in a high leverage situation. It’s true that in that scenario I’d rather be in a defensive position than in a more vulnerable spot on the outside, and Chase probably thinks so now too. Larson pushed the limits of hard racing…locked up through the corner, knocking another car wide. More of a lack of car control than good, hard racing. Both can be true, imo. I don’t think it was intentionally dirty, but that kind of incident has come back to bite plenty of drivers recently.

Also - and this may be pushing it - it’s been mentioned elsewhere that Larson was directly handed a win by Chase at the Bristol night race last year in the midst of another “hard racing” payback. Chase was super passive aggressive post-race and it’s not entirely impossible he was making an allusion to that. The scales have been pretty heavily tipped in favor of one of those drivers head-to-head and I wouldn’t take issue with those being evened up some.
 

gnomesayin

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It's not often that I fundamentally disagree with @FLRacingFan, but this time I do. FL is saying... (a) it's a dirty move but (b) Chase should have expected that and therefore selected the inside lane, and (c) since he didn't do that he now owes payback to Larson.

I'm as critical as anyone of the "crash 'em to pass 'em" ethos that has always existed in Nascar but has become more prevalent in recent years. But this was not an example of that. This was just hard aggressive but fair racing IMO. So I don't think Chase owes payback for this incident (although I won't defend Larson in the earlier incident at Fontana, which was an egregiously late block at best). Just my dos centavos.

It was hardly the worst or even a particularly "dirty" move outside of the team factor, however, I'm definitely more with FL's take on the implications of the incident. Larson did nothing wrong to race Elliott hard into the corner and was able to establish completely legitimate position on the preferred inside line. The point at which it becomes a problem is when he failed to control his car and drifted into the side of Elliott, pushing Elliott wide and costing him further momentum and positions to avoid a crash. It's just not impressive driving, and I believe that Larson was correct to emphasize that he's "not proud of it". It definitely makes me more of a fan of his that he recognizes the problem. While it's hardly a great tragedy, I think Elliott is correct to expect better from a teammate.
 

BobbyFord

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Looked like a racin’ deal to me. Last restart with 5 to go, it’s every man for himself.
I think Larson is secretly proud of that win. He beat some good cars, straight-up.
 

Rpmx

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Don't have the time nor inclination to read everything but do have 1 question. And it's an honest one to boot.

Chase came out of the final restart in a solid 3rd place. If his car was so good, how was logano able to pass him for 3rd?
 

FLRacingFan

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Don't have the time nor inclination to read everything but do have 1 question. And it's an honest one to boot.

Chase came out of the final restart in a solid 3rd place. If his car was so good, how was logano able to pass him for 3rd?
Big lift through the esses when he got to Allmendinger’s bumper. Logano got a run on him and had a nose ahead into the Bus Stop.
 

Old 97

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not true. The inside with Byron in the 17 was ahead of Gibbs out of turn one who started on the outside. It wasn't until Gibbs took out Byron in the bus stop that Larson led the rest and won the race. But again maybe Elliott didn't watch the race or pay attention to which llane was coming out on top in the Cup race

@ the 7:34 mark is the last restart.


Seriously?
The outside line worked very well all weekend.
Gibbs had Byron beat on the last restart also until Byron ran him clear to the wall on turn one.
@ the 7: 55 mark
 

LewTheShoe

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Dale's take on the last restart is pretty reasonable IMO.

 

Ford 222

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Mr. Larson was made to understand that WonderBread is the alpha dog.
Certainly sounds like it. Pretty much confirms Chase is the golden boy over there. Larson shouldn’t have to put up with that.
 
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