Cup RACE thread --- Watkins Glen

Ford 222 said:
Radio is saying contact was light. More like Larson crowded Chase and took his line away. Sirius this AM.
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He ran into him with his tires locked up, meaning he didn't have control of his car and moved him up an entire lane. Like I said, from one of the other drivers, you expect that. Not from your teammate. What sucks is it's now Kyle 2, Chase 0 and what recourse does Chase have without setting off a **** storm at HMS? You know darn well that unless Kyle makes an early exit from the playoffs, he will be strictly off limits, which means Chase will have to just sit and take it, like Gordon had to when Johnson used him up a few times in a short period of time.
 
StandOnIt said:
Elliott should have never taken the outside lane. Who in their right mind wants to be on the outside of the curve going into turn one at Watkins Glenn. The whole weekend long the outside in turn one was not the place to be.
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I missed the finish and based on posts and Twitter noise I was expecting Kyle doored Chase. Nope, Chase picked the outside and left Kyle in the position to defend his position. Aggressive? Yes. Egregious? No. Just a racing thing...and Chase in his interviews, if he seemed a little salty...that was probably mostly at himself.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
The next time they are together going for a win, I don’t think the 9 will be taking it easy on the 5.
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But that's how he should be racing his teammate, because he needs to do what he needs to win, not because he needs to get back at Larson. I do not think Larson would have any issue with Chase running him like that and as I said yesterday, Larson will clearly run everyone like this. Including teammates. I think Chase, by now, should know that he can lean on Larson harder than he needs to going forward without it being an issue.

If Chase runs him the same way, goes full circle and they're even...it's a clean slate. At that point I'd imagine any further "run ins" won't be nearly as much of an issue, rather, it's just how they race. They're not on the same page.

Chase is thinking "a teammate shouldn't run me like this". Kyle is probably thinking "I'm racing for a win". The more they BOTH race each other with the same overagression, the better things will be.

JoLo and BK did this. And they got along just fine.

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Formerjackman said:
He ran into him with his tires locked up, meaning he didn't have control of his car and moved him up an entire lane. Like I said, from one of the other drivers, you expect that. Not from your teammate. What sucks is it's now Kyle 2, Chase 0 and what recourse does Chase have without setting off a **** storm at HMS? You know darn well that unless Kyle makes an early exit from the playoffs, he will be strictly off limits, which means Chase will have to just sit and take it, like Gordon had to when Johnson used him up a few times in a short period of time.
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I do not think Larson would take much of an issue if Chase ran him that way. And if he pays him back in a similar scenario, racing for a win, I can't imagine it would be much of a ****storm.

I don't think this is a case of Larson taking advantage of a situation, it's him choosing to not treat a teammate differently than another car when it comes to racing for a win. I should think that this invites the same kind of racing and return. And if it can be accepted within the organization that this is how Chase and Kyle will race each other for wins going forward, I don't see it being an issue.

Hell, as a driver I think I would enjoy it.

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StandOnIt said:
Elliott should have never taken the outside lane. Who in their right mind wants to be on the outside of the curve going into turn one at Watkins Glenn. The whole weekend long the outside in turn one was not the place to be.
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I questioned that too, but I don't think the drivers like the line into the corner from the inside row as much as the outside. Also, if you are going to use the fifty acres of runoff area like everybody does, that may mean you will have to chop across the guy on the outside to get there.
 
jaqua19 said:
I do not think Larson would take much of an issue if Chase ran him that way. And if he pays him back in a similar scenario, racing for a win, I can't imagine it would be much of a ****storm.

I don't think this is a case of Larson taking advantage of a situation, it's him choosing to not treat a teammate differently than another car when it comes to racing for a win. I should think that this invites the same kind of racing and return. And if it can be accepted within the organization that this is how Chase and Kyle will race each other for wins going forward, I don't see it being an issue.

Hell, as a driver I think I would enjoy it.

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Fair enough, but keep in mind that a similar action at most other tracks would normally result in a BIG wreck. None of this matters much now, but in a few weeks it may make the difference between going to Phoenix and not. If Larson were to be eliminated from the playoffs because Chase screwed with him, I don't think Kyle or very many other people at HMS would see it as lightly as you do. I think Chase's hands are tied.
 
Chase fans are the new age Kyle Busch fans. I said what I said


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Dr_B_UNC said:
I’m with you. I want to so bad, but it’s still illegal in NC and I’m paranoid as heck that I’ll somehow lose my dental license for it. I won’t since, well, I’m the boss that would have to order test but…. My paranoid brain keeps concocting scenarios where something goes wrong on Monday, I get sued, and somehow Mary Jane is uncovered.
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Not worth reliving old times, yet.
 
Formerjackman said:
Fair enough, but keep in mind that a similar action at most other tracks would normally result in a BIG wreck. None of this matters much now, but in a few weeks it may make the difference between going to Phoenix and not. If Larson were to be eliminated from the playoffs because Chase screwed with him, I don't think Kyle or very many other people at HMS would see it as lightly as you do. I think Chase's hands are tied.
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Well, it really depends. I think Larson missing out on advancing is a specific situation. If he's in a MUST win to advance, yeah, Chase's hands are tied.

But I'd imagine that the more likely scenario involving these two racing for a win will be when they are both safe. Will finishing p2, 3, 4 5th or 10th leave Larson enough points to still advance? If so, Chase probably has free reign.

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Goose / Gander

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aunty dive said:
Goose / Gander

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100% correct. The main differences are:
1)Logano wasn't a teammate and, while this doesn't justify it, had roughed Chase up earlier in the race and feathers were ruffled on the radio
2)I think the 9 contingent on this board was quick to say "oof, Chase screwed up bad there." The "Larson is the greatest thing to ever hold a wheel" crowd here is still tripping over themselves justifying it and somehow making it Chase's fault for lane choice.

It is what it is. Chase got muscled out of a win, screwed again by a backmarker with no business being on the track causing a caution. He failed a restart yet again. Like Choc said on Sirius yesterday, "that's 6 or 7 wins now he's lost on restarts!" It's over. Mr. H won't allow him to retaliate, so here we are. Daytona should be quite the show. I expect a lot of busy body departments afterwards as people are desperate.
 
Formerjackman said:
He ran into him with his tires locked up, meaning he didn't have control of his car and moved him up an entire lane. Like I said, from one of the other drivers, you expect that. Not from your teammate. What sucks is it's now Kyle 2, Chase 0 and what recourse does Chase have without setting off a **** storm at HMS? You know darn well that unless Kyle makes an early exit from the playoffs, he will be strictly off limits, which means Chase will have to just sit and take it, like Gordon had to when Johnson used him up a few times in a short period of time.
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Other thing is Kyle is running for a title too. He is in the hunt for 2nd in points which is 10 playoff points plus that 5 for the win that HE got instead of Chase. So to simply GIVE the win to Chase wouldn't have been smart for Kyles title chances, teammate or not. He didn't wipe out Chase, he crowded/moved him and did what he had to do. Yes, he locked up his tires, it happens going for a win. Especially one that could garner you 10 additional playoff points later.
Chase now has the full go ahead to rough Kyle up as well. He HAS to know Kyle isn't there to help HIM win a titles so quit crying to The Felon and take it to Kyle with hard racing.
This is awesome for NASCAR and us as fans.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
100% correct. The main differences are:
1)Logano wasn't a teammate and, while this doesn't justify it, had roughed Chase up earlier in the race and feathers were ruffled on the radio
2)I think the 9 contingent on this board was quick to say "oof, Chase screwed up bad there." The "Larson is the greatest thing to ever hold a wheel" crowd here is still tripping over themselves justifying it and somehow making it Chase's fault for lane choice.

It is what it is. Chase got muscled out of a win, screwed again by a backmarker with no business being on the track causing a caution. He failed a restart yet again. Like Choc said on Sirius yesterday, "that's 6 or 7 wins now he's lost on restarts!" It's over. Mr. H won't allow him to retaliate, so here we are. Daytona should be quite the show. I expect a lot of busy body departments afterwards as people are desperate.
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:rolleyes:
Poor Chase, such the victim of everyone. And his fans, so grounded.....
 
Ford 222 said:
:rolleyes:
Poor Chase, such the victim of everyone. And his fans, so grounded.....
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Point to the doll where Chase hurt you. ;)

I never once played victim. I really thought I laid out a logical retort. I even said it's another race lost on a restart due to a late caution. On to Daytona where Kes actually has a prayer.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
100% correct. The main differences are:
1)Logano wasn't a teammate and, while this doesn't justify it, had roughed Chase up earlier in the race and feathers were ruffled on the radio
2)I think the 9 contingent on this board was quick to say "oof, Chase screwed up bad there." The "Larson is the greatest thing to ever hold a wheel" crowd here is still tripping over themselves justifying it and somehow making it Chase's fault for lane choice.

It is what it is. Chase got muscled out of a win, screwed again by a backmarker with no business being on the track causing a caution. He failed a restart yet again. Like Choc said on Sirius yesterday, "that's 6 or 7 wins now he's lost on restarts!" It's over. Mr. H won't allow him to retaliate, so here we are. Daytona should be quite the show. I expect a lot of busy body departments afterwards as people are desperate.
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Don’t forget about that truck race in Canada where he straight up dumped one of the Dillon brothers on tbe final turn but I’m sure chase fans will have 1 million excuses for it too (this isn’t directed at you I’m just saying the Golden Boy can do no wrong)


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Biggreen695 said:
Don’t forget about that truck race in Canada where he straight up dumped one of the Dillon brothers on tbe final turn but I’m sure chase fans will have 1 million excuses for it too (this isn’t directed at you I’m just saying the Golden Boy can do no wrong)


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That one was BAD. No excuses at all. Dillon tried to cut across and Chase flat out "yeeted" him (as my kids would say)
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
100% correct. The main differences are:
1)Logano wasn't a teammate and, while this doesn't justify it, had roughed Chase up earlier in the race and feathers were ruffled on the radio
2)I think the 9 contingent on this board was quick to say "oof, Chase screwed up bad there." The "Larson is the greatest thing to ever hold a wheel" crowd here is still tripping over themselves justifying it and somehow making it Chase's fault for lane choice.

It is what it is. Chase got muscled out of a win, screwed again by a backmarker with no business being on the track causing a caution. He failed a restart yet again. Like Choc said on Sirius yesterday, "that's 6 or 7 wins now he's lost on restarts!" It's over. Mr. H won't allow him to retaliate, so here we are. Daytona should be quite the show. I expect a lot of busy body departments afterwards as people are desperate.
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Retaliation doesn't have to be retaliation. Retaliation can be using him up on corner exit, like Denny did to Ross at Pocono, like Larson did here.

Kyle even said in his press conference that he's sure moving forward under similar circumstances he can expect that Chase won't cut him a break. As I said before, this is just how Kyle races and I think if Chase can race him the same way, thel ne on the page and there won't be issues.

Unrelated, I watched the last few laps from his onboard, and Chase flat out dumped the 8 going into turn 5. Was 2 full car lengths back and just drove straight into him and shoved him off the track. So Chase will absolutely drive with that agression and has always had it in him to use guys up. He can do the same, without it being an internal issue, imo.

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I agree with Pockrass. A driver should race his teammate the same way he'd race others... aggressively but not dirty. I think that's exactly what we saw on Sunday.

If a move is kosher against a random competitor, then it's kosher against your teammate. And by the same token, if a move is over the line versus a teammate, then it's dirty driving against anyone else as well.

If Chase made his lane choice figuring Larson would roll over for him, then that's on Chase. Choosing the outside, he *had to clear* the 5 before turn 1. When he failed to clear the 5 on that final restart, his position was weak.

 
LewTheShoe said:
I agree with Pockrass. A driver should race his teammate the same way he'd race others... aggressively but not dirty. I think that's exactly what we saw on Sunday.

If a move is kosher against a random competitor, then it's kosher against your teammate. And by the same token, if a move is over the line versus a teammate, then it's dirty driving against anyone else as well.

If Chase made his lane choice figuring Larson would roll over for him, then that's on Chase. Choosing the outside, he *had to clear* the 5 before turn 1. When he failed to clear the 5 on that final restart, his position was weak.

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And you aren't going to clear the inside car going into turn 1 unless he spins the tires. The point is to pinch the inside car down, and get the drive off 1.

Watching Kyle's onboard, the restart prior, Chase did a great job of pinching Kyle down, actually doored him very gently, and had a clear drive off. He very clearly was running Kyle hard without making contact.

The next restart, Kyle got a better push, had a foot on Chase and seemed to feel like he needed to out brake Chase and not let him pinch him down...that's what he did, locked it up, and ran into him. In another universe Chase sees it coming, and runs super wide himself and keeps the lead.

It wasn't dirty, it was overagressive, and a bit reckless..but as we SAW Chase do to the 8, he does have it in him to run like that. He deliberately plowed into the 8 and ran him off track.

He's used the bumper A LOT (a tune I've sang for years). He's agressive.

I agree, he and Kyle can race like that without any love lost. Kyle, more or less said in his post race press that he can expect the same in return. When you have a teammate running you like that for wins TWICE, it's clear the message is "I'm racing you hard for the win...let's race".

I disagree with Dr. Unc...I do think this "Feud" is over, but I don't think Chase's hands are tied. He can run Larson rough like this without an issue. He owes him two and Kyle seems to be welcoming it.

And he should..Chase is an agressive physical driver.



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LewTheShoe said:
I agree with Pockrass. A driver should race his teammate the same way he'd race others... aggressively but not dirty. I think that's exactly what we saw on Sunday.

If a move is kosher against a random competitor, then it's kosher against your teammate. And by the same token, if a move is over the line versus a teammate, then it's dirty driving against anyone else as well.

If Chase made his lane choice figuring Larson would roll over for him, then that's on Chase. Choosing the outside, he *had to clear* the 5 before turn 1. When he failed to clear the 5 on that final restart, his position was weak.

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Hell, I agreed with myself lol. I had the sound turned off, I see Elliott lined up on the outside lane, I asked myself didn't Elliott win lane choice, what is he doing? What he was doing is losing.
 
Whiskyb said:
Saw on twitter the old Mikey Waltrip/Napa commercial where he is in his fire suit walking around and realizes he is at the wrong track. They are trying to get Napa to do a new one with Chase and Bristol.
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Dunno if it's been mentioned already but there's one train of thought that says that Chase purposely made reference to Bristol due to it being the next race on the schedule where he could turn Larson without wrecking him.

Of course when he said it he was still mighty pissed off.
 
pjmolo said:
Dunno if it's been mentioned already but there's one train of thought that says that Chase purposely made reference to Bristol due to it being the next race on the schedule where he could turn Larson without wrecking him.

Of course when he said it he was still mighty pissed off.
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Pretty sure he did say next wek though. I'm not busting on Chase, I like him. Just that it would make a good commercial
 
aunty dive said:
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PR stuff.

There's no reason running for a win like that should be disapproved. It sounds like it was a lecture about how wrong he was. You can't just let your teammate win if he gives you a chance to.

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Dr_B_UNC said:
After listening to the guys on DBC, I have changed my tune. Chase is an idiot choker for his lane choice and deserves nothing but bad things in life.
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He was kind of in a no win situation there IMO
 
None of the guys who chose the outside this weekend are stupid. The outside IS the place to be unless somebody runs into you. Larson ran Chase clean on the previous restart, and probably assumed that he would that time too. I am ALWAYS weary of the outside at ANY track, because I've seen the guy on the outside get cleaned out a million times, yet on the majority of the tracks in NASCAR, drivers continue to take the outside line because they feel it is faster, and they can get away from the mayhem behind them. Drivers being drivers, will take speed over security almost every time.
 
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