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Just imagine what kind of race we would have if everyone two stops and someone like, say, Force India goes for a one stopper. They could bottle up the top half of the field behind them, and the desperation passes behind the, would be epic, crazy stuff. Since the cars have become so impossible to race with, I'm all for having the cars start by inverse order of points. You want to see passing? At least that way there would be a chance.

Let's face it, while the new cars are fast and look good, they don't run together well. By the time you get close enough to pass, you start destroying your tires. Vettel got close in the beginning, but didn't want to wreck his tires, and fell back waiting to make the overcut. It was a brilliant strategic win, but it's hardly wheel to wheel racing. Formula One had better pull its thumb out or soon no one is going to be interested.
 
It's not that hard. Simplify the aero rules and get rid of all the extraneous tack-on crap. get the noses on the ground, trim the wings and give them some tunnels. Could you imagine what F1 would be like if they raced like Indycars?
 
Off topic but has anyone been watching Formula E racing? It does not have the gravitas of F1 or Indy and the races are short but it's better than poking a stick in your eye.
 
Barbara Charles said:
Off topic but has anyone been watching Formula E racing? It does not have the gravitas of F1 or Indy and the races are short but it's better than poking a stick in your eye.
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Formula E is a joke. They switch cars in the middle of the race because the batteries don't last that long and they get penalized if they use too much battery power. Not to mention the ear-piercing whining noise the electric motors make is like nails on a chalkboard.
 
Formula E will get better as the technology evolves. I'm just turned off to it because they seem a little bit too full of themselves for being so "green." The more we accept green racing, the sooner they will do away with what we have now.
 
Barbara Charles said:
Off topic but has anyone been watching Formula E racing? It does not have the gravitas of F1 or Indy and the races are short but it's better than poking a stick in your eye.
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I hadn't watched in a while until I saw Mexico today. Hell of a race for sure.

There are a lot of things about FE that are goofy or off-putting but ultimately the racing usually delivers. Until electric cars really become mainstream and the technologies become commonplace in racing it's going to keep getting bigger.
 
Doc Austin said:
It's not that hard. Simplify the aero rules and get rid of all the extraneous tack-on crap. get the noses on the ground, trim the wings and give them some tunnels. Could you imagine what F1 would be like if they raced like Indycars?
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Oh dear God, I hope not. Up to 7,000 pounds of downforce on cars that weigh 1,600 pounds, and low horsepower motors. No thanks. F1 needs radically lower downforce and dramatically longer braking zones IMO.
 
Except the current cars are next to un-raceable. Sure, they go fast and corner hard, but Hamilton couldn't even get past Verstappen who was 1.5 seconds slower. You are never going to have good racing when the car performs so poorly when following the big vortex generator in front of them.

You can't even get close to the car in front, so the FIA goes to it's bag of phony tricks and suggests it's possibey they could open DRS when the trailing car is within two seconds. It's like a bad video game where you can't pull away from the guy behind, but no matter how slow you go you're still just fast enough to keep him behind.

As long as we have DRS and mandatory "option" tires, and degradation designed into the tires in the name of "spicing up the show," there is little point in taking any kind of purist's position. We have nothing to be snobby about when there are less gimmicks than in Nascar.

You're right, though that downforce is the culprit, except let's be a little more specific and say the real problem is the downforce coming off the wings, widgets, deflectors, wallybobbles and tire squish eliminators. I'm almost convinced that at least some of the complex aerodynamics are designed to screw up the air going to the car behind. We need to get ride of this unless we want more parades like Australia.

Again, Indycar figured out that underbody downforce creates far less turbulence than upper body downforce, and their new car is being designed with this in mind, They have renderings on Racer.com that show the wings are smaller, and there are less tack-on, turbulence creating pieces. I'de be fine if Formula One had smaller wings, less tack on widgets, and some low turbulence creating ground effects tunnels to replace vortex generation abominations we have now. It would also be nice if the cars were a little more elegant, which I believe cutting back all the aero could achieve.
 
Doc Austin said:
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Again, Indycar figured out that underbody downforce creates far less turbulence than upper body downforce, and their new car is being designed with this in mind, They have renderings on Racer.com that show the wings are smaller, and there are less tack-on, turbulence creating pieces. I'de be fine if Formula One had smaller wings, less tack on widgets, and some low turbulence creating ground effects tunnels to replace vortex generation abominations we have now. It would also be nice if the cars were a little more elegant, which I believe cutting back all the aero could achieve.
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Indycar is correct.

I believe that adding long venturi tunnels was fronted as a solution for the new 2017 rules:

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Properly written rules for venturi tunnels, plus simpler topside aero would have a great leveling effect on the aero development possible in F1.

The $$$$ spent on aero complexity is a big part of performance dominance in F1 between teams.

So it was promptly shot down, 'cause reasons...


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The top six teams control the strategy group that makes the rules for everyone. They aren't going to give the smaller teams a break.
 
Kiante said:
The racing is very, very good in Formula E.

Thats what I like and I agree with @Doc Austin the racing getting better as the series advances.
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Formula E doesn't race on real race courses, and the ones they put together in the cities are too narrow for passing that's why I quit watching. I do watch FE in Dec. and Jan. because there's no other racing on to watch. But watchin FE is boring as hell.
 
So is Kubica possibly returning? Or is this just a test?

Edit: Just watched the clips provided, I'd rather those cars return than Kubica. Lmao.
 
DUN24 said:
So is Kubica possibly returning? Or is this just a test?

Edit: Just watched the clips provided, I'd rather those cars return than Kubica. Lmao.
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Motorsport.com said there's potential for more test outings with them. I'm guessing they're evaluating all sorts of possibilities to replace Palmer...and I would be too.

And yeah those V8s are still as sick as ever.
 
There is no explanation for how Honda could have been dominant in the past but suck so bad now. Three years ago no one would have predicted this.
 
Doc Austin said:
There is no explanation for how Honda could have been dominant in the past but suck so bad now. Three years ago no one would have predicted this.
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Yeah, that's true, but Honda's last foray into F1 was also a failure and their motors were not impressive then either. It is an over-simplification, but Ross Brawn took the remnants of their team, plus a Mercedes motor, and dominated the 2009 championship. Honda's mojo has been MIA for a long time, IMO.

In MotoGP, Honda has been hot and cold. They have always had more resources than any other. They have always tried to bully MotoGP into rules structures that favor Honda. They are generally competitive, but rarely dominant, in recent years.
 
kyle18fan said:
Honda will recover and rule again
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Maybe, but they have already had three years. They started the new formula a year later than Mercedes and Renault, but with the elimination of the token system they can build almost anything they want. I think we are getting to the point that grid penalties are sort of irrelevant so they may as well update the things every race. Trash what they have and start over.

I think we all know Honda can do it, though none of us understands why they aren't. It doesn't make sense. They can't possibly be this lost.

LewTheShoe said:
Honda's mojo has been MIA for a long time, IMO.
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It's baffling how they could have fallen so hard. If you had said in 1990 that one day McLaren Honda would be last place in constructor's points, no one would have believed you!

Now Alonso says if McLaren is winning races in September he will stay. No pressure there, right? As little progress as Honda has made all this time, it's hard to believe they are going to be in a winning position by then, so I'm hoping he moves over to Indycar. I think he enjoyed being here as much as we enjoyed having him.
 
FLRacingFan said:
McLaren are about at their wits' end with Honda, and Alonso is basically saying he's out the door at the end of the year.

Imagine next year when Sauber is the sole Honda-powered team. That could be one of the worst cars in F1 history.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/brown-mclaren-near-our-limit-with-struggling-honda-915418/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-alonso-winning-mclaren-summer-915635/
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It'd be so awesome if Alonso came here to Indy Car if he leaves McLaren/Honda, I don't really see him staying in F1 as Mercedes, and Red Bull don't have an opening. And I doubt he would return to Ferrari if they get rid of Kimi. Totally off topic but if Kimi left Ferrari, I'd be ecstatic if he ended up in Indy Car
 
DUN24 said:
Bound to happen. Honda really ****** up here. Their F1 prospects in the future will not be bright.
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I'm certainly going to question their future involvement in the sport. I don't know how a major manufacturer can survive as an engine supplier solely to one backmarker team (Sauber) and there's almost no way any other team is going to want to move over once McLaren bolt.
 
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