Hamlin and Busch Diqualified?

Dem
Revman said:
Man, we playing in tenths if not hundredths of a second.....I am sure that it mattered. We will find out in Michigan for sure.
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Exactly. I'm not sure some people understand how small the changes/cheats need to be to go from losing to winning. Put it this way, if you gain a hundredth of a second per lap, well over a 35 lap run that turns into three and a half tenths of advantage in total. And people lose races by margins of victory smaller than .350 all the time.

It's the same with horsepower gains in the engine shops. You don't need 100 more horsepower than the next car to beat them. You just need any advantage. Winning by .001 second at the line pays the same as winning by ten seconds over the field would.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Dem

Exactly. I'm not sure some people understand how small the changes/cheats need to be to go from losing to winning. Put it this way, if you gain a hundredth of a second per lap, well over a 35 lap run that turns into three and a half tenths of advantage in total. And people lose races by margins of victory smaller than .350 all the time.

It's the same with horsepower gains in the engine shops. You don't need 100 more horsepower than the next car to beat them. You just need any advantage. Winning by .001 second at the line pays the same as winning by ten seconds over the field would.
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Right. I'm just curious to know how much of a difference it actually makes. While it's hard to believe something like this could help, I'm not doubting it. Just wild to think about.

Unfortunately there's no real way of knowing. It's not like they can run 30 laps with the extra vinyl applied, come in and change tires, remove the vinyl, then run 30 more laps and compare times. There are obviously way too many variables and conditions would never be truly equal. But if there's a measurable difference in their wind tunnel tests or whatever, I wish there was a way of knowing how much, exactly, that difference translates to the track. I'm sure the JGR guys have an educated guess and decided it was worth a shot.
 
2 Sweet said:
Yeah, good points. It's just hard to wrap my head around something seemingly insignificant actually making a measurable difference
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Scott Miller on Race Hub from Nascar said pieces, so who knows how many they stacked on top of each other. The Gibbs bunch made it sound like it was one thickness.
 
StandOnIt said:
Scott Miller on Race Hub from Nascar said pieces, so who knows how many they stacked on top of each other. The Gibbs bunch made it sound like it was one thickness.
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You make a great point. The only real details we have so far came from the JGR press release, and I'm sure it was their intention to make the infraction seem insignificant. Who knows what they may have left out.
 
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Greg said:
Surely the preachers soul must be troubled and vexed whilst all the brethren and sisteren at JGR are adorned in sack cloth and ashes making prayers and supplications with great weeping.

They hear the gerbil prophets voices speaking against them after it is well nigh sun down, as they proclaim thou hast lost thine stage points too, every precious one of them mattered, dammit!
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Heathens would never understand.
 
The way Moody made it sound like there might not be any further fines as this infraction was caught at the track resulting in the DQ. Fines and point penalties result from infractions found at the R&D center. This logic makes no sense to me. Why not cheat then if the win will stand as long as they can't find it at the track
 
wi_racefan said:
The way Moody made it sound like there might not be any further fines as this infraction was caught at the track resulting in the DQ. Fines and point penalties result from infractions found at the R&D center. This logic makes no sense to me. Why not cheat then if the win will stand as long as they can't find it at the track
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If nothing else, they are going to take those yotas and give them a good shakedown checking stock parts. With no protest coming from the preacher's bunch, if Nascar is going to do something it won't take long before it becomes public info.
 
wi_racefan said:
Are they decals or printed into the wrap?
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Charlie Spencer said:
They're part of the overall wrap. All the colors and graphics and numbers are one big sheet.
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That's how it is with the Next Gen cars, yes. I believe most teams still painted the cars back in the early Gen 6 era. Regardless, there wasn't a rule, teams had the option to do a wrap, or paint the car and add decals.
 
StandOnIt said:
Larry Mac said today they are going almost all wraps these days because they switch sponsors so many times.
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True. I wonder if paint is even still allowed, or if wraps are now mandatory?

Up until last year, or maybe the year before, HMS cars were still using paint in some races and vinyl wraps for others. I think the NAPA car was painted for Daytona and a wrap for most (if not all) of the other tracks. I think the Axalta car was always painted up until last year's new paint scheme. I think JJ's Lowe's cars were strictly vinyl wrapped one year when he went to the "Lowe's For Pros" scheme, then back to paint when Ally came on board.

I bring this up because if we're really talking about a small/thin piece of vinyl making a difference, then how come there wasn't any uniformity across the board in the Gen 6 era if there was an advantage one way or the other?
 
That's over my head, I just repeated what Larry Mac said. lol.
My guess is that there isn't much difference or you know they would be doing the fastest way wrap or paint and damn the cost and effort.
 
StandOnIt said:
That's over my head, I just repeated what Larry Mac said. lol.
My guess is that there isn't much difference or you know they would be doing the fastest way wrap or paint and damn the cost and effort.
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I vaguely remember one year (perhaps during the COT era?) where the HMS cars made news during Speedweeks for painting the contingency "decals" onto the cars at Daytona, because they were doing whatever they could to reduce drag. Well apparently they decided the time and effort wasn't worth whatever perceived competitive advantage, because I never heard of them (or anyone else) ever doing that again.
 
So basically it came down to about 12 inches of 2 inch wide tape in the wrong place...wow
 
With the next gen car it's mandatory that the car be wrapped, for the exact same reason as how the JGR cars got DQ'd, so that NASCAR can always reserve the right to peel it off the bodywork for a closer look. You can paint over a wrap if you want to, but seemingly no teams do that since obviously then you're adding weight that you don't need to be adding.
 
Like JGR plays like it was an accident but they used clear tape. Wouldn't show if the front end got a scrape like duct tape would lol.
 
StandOnIt said:
That's over my head, I just repeated what Larry Mac said. lol.
My guess is that there isn't much difference or you know they would be doing the fastest way wrap or paint and damn the cost and effort.
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Paint is heavier.
 
wi_racefan said:
The thing I really don't get here is why at this point in the season would you be doing this if you're JGR, especially on 2 cars that are locked into the playoffs? If anything this is something you try on the 19.

To me if this is an aero advantage that we would have to assume it to be I'm not sure why you wouldn't "put it on the shelf" for the playoffs, like HMS was so well known for. Why are you running this right now with so little to gain in the big picture of the championship?

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Maybe since the points aren't as important right now with those two being locked in already, they could be trying to test how hard it is to slip those things by and not get caught before playoff time?
 
StandOnIt said:
Scott Miller on Race Hub from Nascar said pieces, so who knows how many they stacked on top of each other. The Gibbs bunch made it sound like it was one thickness.
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Scott Miller also neglected to mention that a rules update had just been released last week on the subject. Scott Miller also made it sound like they were randomly looking in that location. Scott Miller makes a lot of things sound interesting.....
 
Both of these cars are painted. One has several contingency decals applied on the front corner, one has next to nothing. Is there a competitive advantage for the 2 or the 28?

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One car is wrapped, one is painted. Is there a competitive advantage for the 5 or the 24?

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Revman said:
Scott Miller also neglected to mention that a rules update had just been released last week on the subject. Scott Miller also made it sound like they were randomly looking in that location. Scott Miller makes a lot of things sound interesting.....
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They probably got wind of the cheatin Yotas.
 
I was watching a short video on YouTube from today's Racehub and saw a rather interesting graphic they had regarding this.
It said the last two winners DQed in Nascar (all 3 major series') happened to be Kyle and Denny. Kyle in Texas 2020 and Denny at Darlington 2019, both in Xfinity.
 
hmmm298 said:
I was watching a short video on YouTube from today's Racehub and saw a rather interesting graphic they had regarding this.
It said the last two winners DQed in Nascar (all 3 major series') happened to be Kyle and Denny. Kyle in Texas 2020 and Denny at Darlington 2019, both in Xfinity.
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In 2017 Danny Hamlin's win was "encumbered" (remember that B.S.) at Darlington lol
The No. 11 team is facing multiple fines as well as the win becoming encumbered as a result of a rear suspension violation. Crew chief Mike Wheeler has been fined $50,000 and suspended for two NASCAR Cup Series points events while the team has been docked 25 driver and owner points.

Hamlin got DQ'd in 2019 at Darlington for height violation in the Xfinity series.
 
So has Busch commented on the disqualification yet? Would love to hear what he has to say about it.
 
2 Sweet said:
You make a great point. The only real details we have so far came from the JGR press release, and I'm sure it was their intention to make the infraction seem insignificant. Who knows what they may have left out.
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Post #63. Check it out.
 
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