Has Kevin Harvick (at age 43) Lost A Step?

wi_racefan said:
Wasn't Ross fighting to stay on the lead lap?

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All I’m saying is, if Kurt Busch can come right out and say thank you to Ross Chastain because he purposely helped him win the race, and not many people complained about it, then there should be no outrage over this either
 
Remember last year at Homestead (after their Martinsville wreck) when Logano was a lap down and blocked Elliott so that Hamlin could win? Elliott knew Logano did it on purpose but he took it like a man just said he needed to get through lapped traffic better.
 
Formerjackman said:
Such a load of crap. Regardless of whatever move Chase made, Harvick lost the back end of his car, slid into Chase and cut his tire. Intentional? No, but sometimes there are consequences to your actions, intentional or not. Look, Elliott fan or not, I just call them as I see them. Chase was totally in the wrong last year at Bristol when he walled Logano, and I thought what he did to Matty D at Daytona a few weeks ago, was a **** move, but Chase didn't do a damn thing wrong last night. Harvick's attempt to wipe out Larson just shows what he's made of. I don't hate Harvick, but is as guilty of doing BS stuff and then getting all high and mighty about it as anybody that has been around the last twenty years.

Your comments about Chase being a spoiled brat are WAY off base too. All the guy ever does is show up and drive the wheel off his race car. He's not out running his mouth and trying to draw attention to himself, and if people would stop running into him, you would hardly ever hear a peep out of him. Also don't get to choose who your parents are. Whatever you think of him, all he has ever done is get results at EVERY level he has ever raced, which is a hell of a lot more than you can say about most of the offspring famous drivers.
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You are full of crap, that is bias and you know it. If this kid murdered a six year old child and you would have an excuse for him.

As far as his father and grandfather, have nothing but respect for them...they worked for it.

Listen, my only grievance with Elliot is that he did not go through the school of hard knocks, same as some others. He has been groomed with the best equipment available, never had to scrape a knuckle due to a rounded off nut. That is just one of my biased contentions, but I am a man enough to admit it, you are not.

If Elliot would have not ADMITTED he determined the out come of the race, I might have just given him a pass as to his arrogance as to him thinking that Harvick owed him a hole when Chase dove between Harvick and the lapped car. Harvick had him by half a car....hence the exhaust pipe cutting Chase's LF. When Chase pinched Harvick, what was he supposed to do, back out of it? No, you have the position, you use it.
 
OldTimer said:
You are full of crap, that is bias and you know it. If this kid murdered a six year old child and you would have an excuse for him.

As far as his father and grandfather, have nothing but respect for them...they worked for it.

Listen, my only grievance with Elliot is that he did not go through the school of hard knocks, same as some others. He has been groomed with the best equipment available, never had to scrape a knuckle due to a rounded off nut. That is just one of my biased contentions, but I am a man enough to admit it, you are not.

If Elliot would have not ADMITTED he determined the out come of the race, I might have just given him a pass as to his arrogance as to him thinking that Harvick owed him a hole when Chase dove between Harvick and the lapped car. Harvick had him by half a car....hence the exhaust pipe cutting Chase's LF. When Chase pinched Harvick, what was he supposed to do, back out of it? No, you have the position, you use it.
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OldTimer said:
You are full of crap, that is bias and you know it. If this kid murdered a six year old child and you would have an excuse for him.

As far as his father and grandfather, have nothing but respect for them...they worked for it.

Listen, my only grievance with Elliot is that he did not go through the school of hard knocks, same as some others. He has been groomed with the best equipment available, never had to scrape a knuckle due to a rounded off nut. That is just one of my biased contentions, but I am a man enough to admit it, you are not.

If Elliot would have not ADMITTED he determined the out come of the race, I might have just given him a pass as to his arrogance as to him thinking that Harvick owed him a hole when Chase dove between Harvick and the lapped car. Harvick had him by half a car....hence the exhaust pipe cutting Chase's LF. When Chase pinched Harvick, what was he supposed to do, back out of it? No, you have the position, you use it.
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As for your point on being pampered, tell me one driver in the Cup field now that has busted a knuckle on a rounded off nut. The days of Harry Gant, Dale, Bill Elliott, etc are long, long gone. It sucks but it is what it is. The best driver in the field didn't know how to drive manual until he got into a stock car and had to learn...
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
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As for your point on being pampered, tell me one driver in the Cup field now that has busted a knuckle on a rounded off nut. The days of Harry Gant, Dale, Bill Elliott, etc are long, long gone. It sucks but it is what it is. The best driver in the field didn't know how to drive manual until he got into a stock car and had to learn...
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Gee, The Busch Bros and Ryan Newman come to mind. Joey Logano wrenched at his Dads trucking business as a kid..
Thats 4 drivers that turned wrenches and drove sticks all while being young and not wealthy Just saying...
 
I imagine Alex Bowman has at some time in his life while working on his race cars or his daily drivers from the time he was in JR midgets.
 
OldTimer said:
Listen, my only grievance with Elliot is that he did not go through the school of hard knocks, same as some others. He has been groomed with the best equipment available, never had to scrape a knuckle due to a rounded off nut...
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Unlike you, I'm not into lifestyle fantasies of the Early Nascar Era. I don't have preconceived notions of what someone's background should be, grease under the fingernails, etc. I'm all in on racing and racers regardless of lifestyle characteristics. I'm a fan of on-the-track competition, and care little about nostalgia for the lifestyle of an earlier era. It's racing... man against man, team against team. Who will win, who will lose, and why. This is what Nascar is to me. I care deeply about the history of the sport. But that is history, not the present, not the future. That's what museums and car shows are for.

But you're not alone. There are many who are attracted to some idea of the Nascar lifestyle more than the actual sport of racing. There are forum members here and elsewhere on social media who are into that stuff.

I've learned from years here on R-F that lifestyle fans and pure racing fans tend to see the sport very differently... different wants and needs from the sport, tend not to understand each other, and tend to talk past each other on discussion boards. It is what it is.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
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As for your point on being pampered, tell me one driver in the Cup field now that has busted a knuckle on a rounded off nut. The days of Harry Gant, Dale, Bill Elliott, etc are long, long gone. It sucks but it is what it is.
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You can't possibly be serious.

Turning wrenches at this level is not on the list of things the driver is responsible for. That would include your heroes of yesteryear.
 
OldTimer said:
You are full of crap, that is bias and you know it. If this kid murdered a six year old child and you would have an excuse for him.

As far as his father and grandfather, have nothing but respect for them...they worked for it.

Listen, my only grievance with Elliot is that he did not go through the school of hard knocks, same as some others. He has been groomed with the best equipment available, never had to scrape a knuckle due to a rounded off nut. That is just one of my biased contentions, but I am a man enough to admit it, you are not.
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Look, I know damn well that Chase altered the outcome of the race, and I wish it didn't have to come to that, but I have ZERO problem with what he did. He got his revenge in a way that did not adversely effect ANYONE or or alter the race negatively for ANYONE but Kevin Harvick, and you can't ask any more than that. I am probably more critical of the drivers, teams and manufacturers that I support than ANYONE on this forum. Is that man enough for you?

Why are you blaming Chase for a situation he had no control over? It's not HIS fault that his dad was able to open doors for him with both money and name recognition. Chase wanted to race as a little kid, so Bill put him in a car. He did well, so they kept putting him in cars until he came to the attention of Rick Hendrick, who put him in cars and he kept winning. What was he supposed to do, put his career path in jeopardy, turn all of that down and go drive a bunch a junk just so that people like you will have more respect for him? It's not like he woke up one day and his daddy put him in a Cup car, he worked and EARNED his way up the ladder. Most of the star drivers of this era never did much work on their cars either. Chase COULD have bummed around and lived off his father's name, but he has dedicated his life to racing and making his own way in it, and has never left his roots. He lives in his home town, flies his own airplane and basically minds his own business. I have all the respect in the world for the guys that had bust their ass and scrape their way up the ladder, I worked for some them, but I have no grudge against anybody that had an easier path up the ladder either. I think if you do a little research, you will see that Chase has spent some time in a race shop too, but understand that the time between when he was old enough to actually DO much, and the time that he was working for Hendrick Motorsports where they neither needed him or particularly would WANT him to work on cars was a VERY SMALL window. Once again, it's not Chase's fault that he had a contract with one of the world's premier race teams before he had a driver's license. Envy and jealousy is NOT a good look.
 
aunty dive said:
You can't possibly be serious.

Turning wrenches at this level is not on the list of things the driver is responsible for. That would include your heroes of yesteryear.
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You do know that is what I was saying, right? I was poking at Old Timer.
 
Apparently I don't know what you said.

I thought my reading comprehension skills were ok. You do not have an audience of one. :cool:
 
Formerjackman said:
Look, I know damn well that Chase altered the outcome of the race, and I wish it didn't have to come to that, but I have ZERO problem with what he did. He got his revenge in a way that did not adversely effect ANYONE or or alter the race negatively for ANYONE but Kevin Harvick, and you can't ask any more than that. I am probably more critical of the drivers, teams and manufacturers that I support than ANYONE on this forum. Is that man enough for you?

Why are you blaming Chase for a situation he had no control over? It's not HIS fault that his dad was able to open doors for him with both money and name recognition. Chase wanted to race as a little kid, so Bill put him in a car. He did well, so they kept putting him in cars until he came to the attention of Rick Hendrick, who put him in cars and he kept winning. What was he supposed to do, put his career path in jeopardy, turn all of that down and go drive a bunch a junk just so that people like you will have more respect for him? It's not like he woke up one day and his daddy put him in a Cup car, he worked and EARNED his way up the ladder. Most of the star drivers of this era never did much work on their cars either. Chase COULD have bummed around and lived off his father's name, but he has dedicated his life to racing and making his own way in it, and has never left his roots. He lives in his home town, flies his own airplane and basically minds his own business. I have all the respect in the world for the guys that had bust their ass and scrape their way up the ladder, I worked for some them, but I have no grudge against anybody that had an easier path up the ladder either. I think if you do a little research, you will see that Chase has spent some time in a race shop too, but understand that the time between when he was old enough to actually DO much, and the time that he was working for Hendrick Motorsports where they neither needed him or particularly would WANT him to work on cars was a VERY SMALL window. Once again, it's not Chase's fault that he had a contract with one of the world's premier race teams before he had a driver's license. Envy and jealousy is NOT a good look.
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Thanks for admitting it
 
Formerjackman said:
Look, I know damn well that Chase altered the outcome of the race, and I wish it didn't have to come to that, but I have ZERO problem with what he did. He got his revenge in a way that did not adversely effect ANYONE or or alter the race negatively for ANYONE but Kevin Harvick, and you can't ask any more than that. I am probably more critical of the drivers, teams and manufacturers that I support than ANYONE on this forum. Is that man enough for you?

Why are you blaming Chase for a situation he had no control over? It's not HIS fault that his dad was able to open doors for him with both money and name recognition. Chase wanted to race as a little kid, so Bill put him in a car. He did well, so they kept putting him in cars until he came to the attention of Rick Hendrick, who put him in cars and he kept winning. What was he supposed to do, put his career path in jeopardy, turn all of that down and go drive a bunch a junk just so that people like you will have more respect for him? It's not like he woke up one day and his daddy put him in a Cup car, he worked and EARNED his way up the ladder. Most of the star drivers of this era never did much work on their cars either. Chase COULD have bummed around and lived off his father's name, but he has dedicated his life to racing and making his own way in it, and has never left his roots. He lives in his home town, flies his own airplane and basically minds his own business. I have all the respect in the world for the guys that had bust their ass and scrape their way up the ladder, I worked for some them, but I have no grudge against anybody that had an easier path up the ladder either. I think if you do a little research, you will see that Chase has spent some time in a race shop too, but understand that the time between when he was old enough to actually DO much, and the time that he was working for Hendrick Motorsports where they neither needed him or particularly would WANT him to work on cars was a VERY SMALL window. Once again, it's not Chase's fault that he had a contract with one of the world's premier race teams before he had a driver's license. Envy and jealousy is NOT a good look.
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Folks, the abridged version will be out next month
 
LewTheShoe said:
Unlike you, I'm not into lifestyle fantasies of the Early Nascar Era. I don't have preconceived notions of what someone's background should be, grease under the fingernails, etc. I'm all in on racing and racers regardless of lifestyle characteristics. I'm a fan of on-the-track competition, and care little about nostalgia for the lifestyle of an earlier era. It's racing... man against man, team against team. Who will win, who will lose, and why. This is what Nascar is to me. I care deeply about the history of the sport. But that is history, not the present, not the future. That's what museums and car shows are for.

But you're not alone. There are many who are attracted to some idea of the Nascar lifestyle more than the actual sport of racing. There are forum members here and elsewhere on social media who are into that stuff.

I've learned from years here on R-F that lifestyle fans and pure racing fans tend to see the sport very differently... different wants and needs from the sport, tend not to understand each other, and tend to talk past each other on discussion boards. It is what it is.
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The sad thing about it is that the "lifestyle" certain fans think the sport is supposed to represent died out before Jeff Gordon came into the sport. These are the fans who don't understand NASCAR racing, and the fans, imo, who contribute to negative stereotypes about our fanbase.

Nascar in its roots may have been a southern good ol' boy, grind at the teeth kind of sport. But as soon as the industry realized that young, talented drivers can get results in elite equipment - Jeff Gordon, and Dale Earnhardt ISNT the model for what makes a cup series champion, the sport changed. The old, and the new marketed the hell out of the sport in the 90s, and it truly became about sales. Meanwhile, well funded teams are now realizing they can hire any young race car driver with little stock car experience who show promise, and get success. 1999-2006. You have young drivers winning races right out of the gate. And Tony Stewart, Matt Kenseth, Kurt Busch, and Jimmie Johnson all follow that Jeff Gordon mold and win championships pretty early into their career, while the good ol boys of Rusty, Bill, etc are after thoughts.

I'm with you. The sport has changed and it hasn't been about this "culture" and "lifestyle" since the 80s.

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jaqua19 said:
Picking DOES work. It's worked every time we are here and worked a handful of times throughout the race last night.

Chase did make a lane that wasn't there by forcing he and Kevin 3 wide into the corner, inside of that lapped car. Both drivers over agressively attacked that corner, Harvick lost his nose, since he didn't check up, (he should have) and washed up into Chase. Chase pinned him down, which Harvick probably didn't expect, and Kevin over drove it relative to the room he had at the time.

I can only speak for myself, but Chase sort of forcing his way down there and creating a lane does not mean it was wrong, or unsportsmanlike like. He wasn't a victim there either. It was a total racing incident. The slower car was trying to hold off the faster car for the win. It happens. I don't think that crowd (not all of us) are saying Chase was in the wrong, just that, neither driver really is. I


It seems like this was years in the making, apparently, according to a handful of Chase fans I've spoken with. I had no idea there was bad blood there.

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Remember a few years ago when Harvick had a radio show on XM? I don't remember when Earnhardt Jr retired and it may have been around that time that Chase was sort of taking over the reigns of "most popular driver". Kevin truthfully pointed out that these "most popular drivers" really hadn't done anything in the sport. At that time Chase had several runner ups but no wins. Earnhardt of course never won a championship but both are likeable to most people and somebody it would be cool to drink beer with watching a game or whatever. That said, as a Harvick fan here, he looked like a big wimp taking a finger pointing to the face whilst hiding in the safe space of his helmet. What was he afraid of???
 
10-4 said:
Remember a few years ago when Harvick had a radio show on XM? I don't remember when Earnhardt Jr retired and it may have been around that time that Chase was sort of taking over the reigns of "most popular driver". Kevin truthfully pointed out that these "most popular drivers" really hadn't done anything in the sport. At that time Chase had several runner ups but no wins. Earnhardt of course never won a championship but both are likeable to most people and somebody it would be cool to drink beer with watching a game or whatever. That said, as a Harvick fan here, he looked like a big wimp taking a finger pointing to the face whilst hiding in the safe space of his helmet. What was he afraid of???
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Have you seen Chase without a shirt? He's deceptively yoked. Not like Debinedetto yoked, but nothing to eff with. At least not with a scrawny 45 year old dad bod.

Edit: Gosh, it felt really creepy and wrong to type that out

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MAGICMILER said:
Gee, The Busch Bros and Ryan Newman come to mind. Joey Logano wrenched at his Dads trucking business as a kid..
Thats 4 drivers that turned wrenches and drove sticks all while being young and not wealthy Just saying...
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Joey grew up filthy rich. His dad is so rich that when their family moved down south from Connecticut to pursue Joey's driving career, Joey's sister needed a place to continue her figure skating interests too, so their dad built and opened a full-size ice rink for her to do that.
 
OldTimer said:
As far as his father and grandfather, have nothing but respect for them...they worked for it.

Listen, my only grievance with Elliot is that he did not go through the school of hard knocks, same as some others. He has been groomed with the best equipment available, never had to scrape a knuckle due to a rounded off nut. That is just one of my biased contentions, but I am a man enough to admit it, you are not.
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Hate to tell ya friend but at the Cup level they all worked at it at some point to get to where they are. I disagree with this take 1000 percent, this isnt 1960's NASCAR, driver's arnt really required or frankly dont even need to work on the car. Thats why a place like HMS has hundreds to thousands of employees.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Joey grew up filthy rich. His dad is so rich that when their family moved down south from Connecticut to pursue Joey's driving career, Joey's sister needed a place to continue her figure skating interests too, so their dad built and opened a full-size ice rink for her to do that.
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I am not a fan of Joey, but I have seen Joey wrenching on his cars at Waterford Speedbowl. He knows how to turn a wrench, and that's counts for something.
Wasn't Dale Sr. Filthy rich when Jr. started racing.?
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
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As for your point on being pampered, tell me one driver in the Cup field now that has busted a knuckle on a rounded off nut. The days of Harry Gant, Dale, Bill Elliott, etc are long, long gone. It sucks but it is what it is. The best driver in the field didn't know how to drive manual until he got into a stock car and had to learn...
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Ryan Preece builds his own modifieds...
 
Snappy D said:
Hate to tell ya friend but at the Cup level they all worked at it at some point to get to where they are. I disagree with this take 1000 percent, this isnt 1960's NASCAR, driver's arnt really required or frankly dont even need to work on the car. Thats why a place like HMS has hundreds to thousands of employees.
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I'm an old guy that still thinks guys like Alan Kulwicki could still make it.
 
OldTimer said:
I'm an old guy that still thinks guys like Alan Kulwicki could still make it.
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Kulwicki was a flying unicorn even in 1992. It was a one off miracle that was never going to be repeated. Unless he dramatically changed his way of doing things, I'm not sure he even would have had a team by the late 90's, and if he did, he would have been racing Dave Marcis.
 
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