INDY Las Vegas

[Jameswnh]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I think the notion that IndyCar should not be at 1.5 mile tracks is a bit premature. It's not like this is the first time they've done it. I mean, they just raced at Kentucky two weeks ago, which has been one of the biggest races in the series for years. Same goes for Texas, and formerly Chicago. I think there is a better case to be made against starting ten more cars than usual at a venue that size. I don't strap into those cars and do those speeds every week though. I'd like to hear what the drivers have to say, as the offseason goes on and everyone heals a bit, what they think of going that fast on a 1.5 mile track. I just think if it was something they really felt unsafe doing, someone would have spoken up years ago.

One thing that is tragically ironic, I don't think this crash happens the same way in one of the new cars, the very cars Dan has been testing. The way the rear end is more closed up, it appears less likely that anyone would be launched the way Dan, and many others have been, when they run over the back of someone.

As for Dan, i still can't believe I saw what I did today. Looking back on the coverage during the red flag, it seems surreal. We'll miss you, Dan.

 

[wilson89]

@tomasscheckter
Tomas Scheckter @nipped I known dan since I was 16. I had a poster of him in a go kart in my room when I was 12 yrs old in SA. God should have taken me.

Just read this ^ off of twitter sounds like Scheckter is taking this pretty bad and im sure alot of others are as well

 

[MRM]

I don't get to watch IndyCar racing as much as I used to. I turned it to the race not too long after the accident. Just by jumping back and forth to updates and to a football game, I got the sense it was really bad. The last time I had that feeling during an actual race was when Greg Moore was killed in Fontana. Tragic day for racing.

 

[Magnethead]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I think the notion that IndyCar should not be at 1.5 mile tracks is a bit premature. It's not like this is the first time they've done it. I mean, they just raced at Kentucky two weeks ago, which has been one of the biggest races in the series for years. Same goes for Texas, and formerly Chicago.

While I would on one hand say this is true, it happens rarely for the number of laps run on such tracks, it has happened before. Among the videos I did find, I couldn't find the one where somebody slowed down on the cool-down lap and somebody didn't, and they leapfrogged. The videos i found were the well-knowns and from this year.

I think there is a better case to be made against starting ten more cars than usual at a venue that size. I don't strap into those cars and do those speeds every week though. I'd like to hear what the drivers have to say, as the offseason goes on and everyone heals a bit, what they think of going that fast on a 1.5 mile track. I just think if it was something they really felt unsafe doing, someone would have spoken up years ago.

I think that honestly, the drivers spoke today. They basically said it was a NASCAR Talladega race, without saying it. everybody was being aggressive too early, and they were bunched up nose to tail 2 and 3 wide. Danica said she saw it coming, so did others. They spoke today. I expect big changes for next year for ovals on the new setup.

One thing that is tragically ironic, I don't think this crash happens the same way in one of the new cars, the very cars Dan has been testing. The way the rear end is more closed up, it appears less likely that anyone would be launched the way Dan, and many others have been, when they run over the back of someone.

I agree. It's just a completely 100% better setup. I can't agree to the motor decision, but it is what it is. And it's safer.

As for Dan, i still can't believe I saw what I did today. Looking back on the coverage during the red flag, it seems surreal. We'll miss you, Dan.

I can't believe it either. I'm going to go by Mouser HQ before school tomorrow and see if the flags are at half staff. They're one of the Sam Schmidt team sponsors.

Warning: Pictures 4, 5, 6 are very graphic.

photogallery: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-dan-wheldon-crash-20111017-pictures,0,3679446.photogallery





[youtube]wNOA-JOmf3Q[/youtube]

 

[KingGlamis]

I don't understand why they don't have a roll cage over their heads? I have wondered this for years. The aerodynamic drag would reduce the top speed by what... 1-3mph? Big deal. Or they could put a canopy like a fighter jet over the roll cage and probably not lose any speed.

From the video I saw, it "could be" that Wheldon hit the wall literally head first. That is horrible. I would much rather hit the wall cage first.

 

[robbybee]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I think the notion that IndyCar should not be at 1.5 mile tracks is a bit premature. It's not like this is the first time they've done it.

Kenny Brack is fortunate to be alive after his horriffic crash at Texas Motor Speedway (another 1.5 mile track). Any time these guys and gals are racing at a track where they can hold the throttle wide open for the entire race, is a recipe for disaster. The fact that this sort of tragedy didn't happen sooner is just dumb luck.

The CART Series NEVER ran on such tracks due to the danger factor. When they ultimately did try to run at TMS, they found that the drivers were blacking out when entering Turn One (which is not a good thing).

Tony Effen George is singularly responsible for putting these cars on these tracks. It was stupid then - and it's even more stupid in hindsight.

Sleep well, Tony!

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

I broke down in tears today.

This is horrible, I've always liked Dan Wheldon and he was so much fun to have around the Indy race broadcasts this year but I was rooting for him to get back into a car and was hoping he would win the race today. As soon as that accident happened I had a bad feeling that someone was going to be in serious trouble. Thankfully everyone else came out ok, that was such a terrible wreck.

R.I.P. Dan I'm so sorry for his young children and his wife and family.

 

[Magnethead]

I don't understand why they don't have a roll cage over their heads? I have wondered this for years. The aerodynamic drag would reduce the top speed by what... 1-3mph? Big deal. Or they could put a canopy like a fighter jet over the roll cage and probably not lose any speed.

From the video I saw, it "could be" that Wheldon hit the wall literally head first. That is horrible. I would much rather hit the wall cage first.

Same thing dad said. In the photo gallery i posted above, you can see the motor was long gone. Which means that the intake- the SOLE roll bar for an indycar- was gone. Basically like hitting the fence, SAFER barrier, styroblocks, steel watt, whatever- on a bicycle.

Even if he had the HANS on- it relies on the belts. In a crash like that, 100% chance a belt failed. The way the monocoque split, there was noting left of the ****pit except the steering wheel- and that might be questionable at best. That's why so many racers are switching to the R3. One of our friends rolled her 68 drag car last year, and she runs on a throttle stop until she can afford an R3. Won't go fast again till she has it.

 

[be9ak7ts16]

I'm with KG on this, why not a ****pit cover, it did wonders for the Unlimited Hydroplanes, saved a bunch of lives there. I've seen a lot of wrecks over the years but never the carnage I saw in this one.

 

[Nitro Dude]

This they did. Marty has had to do it several times in NHRA (I think he was in the booth for the John Force accident?)

Magnethead it was Paul Page that was in the booth with Mike Dunn when John crashed in Dallas, but I don't remember if it was Paul or Marty in Englishtown when Scott Kalitta was killed. It is going to feel weird rolling in to Vegas next week to get ready for our race. Even though our track is across the street we still have to go down inside the Nascar track to dump the tanks and fill up the water tanks before we park. It will be a gloomy week to say the least. It was pretty tough to get through today at the Phoenix race after we heard the news. After the Top Fuel Final Larry Dixon did an interview on Espn and he got pretty choked up when he was talking about Dan.

 

[Magnethead]

Magnethead it was Paul Page that was in the booth with Mike Dunn when John crashed in Dallas, but I don't remember if it was Paul or Marty in Englishtown when Scott Kalitta was killed. It is going to feel weird rolling in to Vegas next week to get ready for our race. Even though our track is across the street we still have to go down inside the Nascar track to dump the tanks and fill up the water tanks before we park. It will be a gloomy week to say the least. It was pretty tough to get through today at the Phoenix race after we heard the news. After the Top Fuel Final Larry Dixon did an interview on Espn and he got pretty choked up when he was talking about Dan.

no amount of paint will cover up the marks that have been left in Turn 2. It's amazing how much damage 15 indycars can make. Chunking the track surface, splitting the fence, breaking the SAFER barrier...that corner got used up.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Magnethead it was Paul Page that was in the booth with Mike Dunn when John crashed in Dallas, but I don't remember if it was Paul or Marty in Englishtown when Scott Kalitta was killed. It is going to feel weird rolling in to Vegas next week to get ready for our race. Even though our track is across the street we still have to go down inside the Nascar track to dump the tanks and fill up the water tanks before we park. It will be a gloomy week to say the least. It was pretty tough to get through today at the Phoenix race after we heard the news. After the Top Fuel Final Larry Dixon did an interview on Espn and he got pretty choked up when he was talking about Dan.

Paul Page was in the booth for the Scott Kalitta accident.

 

[Nitro Dude]

Paul Page was in the booth for the Scott Kalitta accident.

Thank's Andy. I thought that he was but I couldn't remember when Marty left and Paul started.

 

[Magnethead]

Thank's Andy. I thought that he was but I couldn't remember when Marty left and Paul started.

I couldn't either, nor did I ever understand the switch.

Either way, the TV crew did what they could professionally. And the way that Marty closed out the broadcast- how else could you? And you know they had to, because the production crew is every bit in touch with the teams as everybody else is in the sport. Notice they never showed the guys in the booth once the announcement was made (I don't think?)

 

[HoneyBadger]

My article for SRM on Wheldon: http://www.sportsreviewmagazine.com...egas-accident&catid=24:andy-marquis&Itemid=82

 

[Nitro Dude]

I couldn't either, nor did I ever understand the switch.

Either way, the TV crew did what they could professionally. And the way that Marty closed out the broadcast- how else could you? And you know they had to, because the production crew is every bit in touch with the teams as everybody else is in the sport. Notice they never showed the guys in the booth once the announcement was made (I don't think?)

I was thinking that Scotts crash was the year before Johns, but it was the year after. Johns was 2007 and Scotts was 2008. I just finished watching todays broadcast and I thought the broadcast crew did a good job. Man this is sad.

 

[Magnethead]

brave minds only,

Slideshow: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-dan-wheldon-crash-20111017-pictures,0,3679446.photogallery

The sequence is 6-3-5-4

Slide 6 you can't see anything

Slide 3 show's Wheldon's helmet.

Slide 5 I can't say for sure, but it looks like Wheldon's windscreen is above the verizon car, the lower half of the monocoque is attached to the wheels at far left, and the body, bulkhead, fuel tank, ect is up in the fence

Slide 4 is just the monocoque and wheels....and nothing else...

Video: concentrate at 2:33.

At 2:31, the car still has a back wing.

Wing comes off at 2:32

The 3 cars comee togethher right at the wall, and Wheldon's engine detaches after impact with the fence at 2:34

At 2:35, even though the motor is in mid-air behind the car, you can see Wheldon's intake duct still attached to the monocoque.

At 2:35, you can see the car pitches over, and the air intake interlaces with the main support pole for the fence. This causes a large fireball as the sparks ignite the fuel lines that went to the engine.

At 2:36, the nose rotates into the fence, catching the second main support pole for the fence.

At 2:39 when it hits the pavement, you can't see Wheldon's helmet, and it basically looks like a bobsled- like the bulkhead went with the motor.

 

[Magnethead]

 

[Magnethead]

------

 

[Magnethead]

The more I watch the video, the more I wonder how Will Power survived. He was shooting for the stars, way up in the air.

 

[kkfan91]

Was horrible to watch, there was just this feeling I had as soon as cars went flying that nothing good was going to come from it, still shocked its not easy watching someone die entertaining you on live tv. RIP Dan,

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

The more I watch the video, the more I wonder how Will Power survived. He was shooting for the stars, way up in the air.

I think Will ended up being ok cause even though he caught a huge amount of air he never turned over cause the car somehow managed to land back the right way. If he would have flipped over it could have been a different story. Thankfully everyone else made it out ok.

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

Also I don't know if it was posted in here but they were riding on board with Dan right before the accident happened but they cut away right before he crashed. I'm glad they didn't show that footage.

 

[Magnethead]

Also I don't know if it was posted in here but they were riding on board with Dan right before the accident happened but they cut away right before he crashed. I'm glad they didn't show that footage.

Same here. Wonder if ESPN will destroy the tape.

 

[Magnethead]

I think Will ended up being ok cause even though he caught a huge amount of air he never turned over cause the car somehow managed to land back the right way. If he would have flipped over it could have been a different story. Thankfully everyone else made it out ok.

That, and he caught the top of the barrier instead of the fencing. That made a big difference right there.

 

[wilson89]

The more I watch the video, the more I wonder how Will Power survived. He was shooting for the stars, way up in the air.

Several drivers got lucky it wasnt more than one fatality, in total I belive there was 4 cars that got air bourne. Not to mention slamming into the wall at around 220 MPH while other cars going the same speed could potential hit you as well. We could of easily seen multiple fatalitys, I am thankfull the other 14 drivers are not serious injured (I heard pippa has a burned fingers and possible concussion.

We lost a really great drive today but we could of lost alot more drivers as well.

 

[be9ak7ts16]

Also I don't know if it was posted in here but they were riding on board with Dan right before the accident happened but they cut away right before he crashed. I'm glad they didn't show that footage.

I'm pretty sure they showed him flying into the fence. It was during replays. I'll have to check the DVR.

 

[Dionysius]

I wonder what the differences are between this and Indianapolis are. Is Vegas a narrower track? Seems like it is and if so I think that is the main part of the problem. They race 33 or so cars at Indy and they just don't get as bunched up at the start. And if they do, seems like there is more real estate to work with.

Another solution to this problem is that if you are going to race that many cars at an oval split the field up at the starts. 2 pace cars lead 2 groups separated by about a 1/8 of the oval length. I think this would string the field out better during the opening laps. Would that work?

 

[#17D500winner]

I'm pretty sure they showed him flying into the fence. It was during replays. I'll have to check the DVR.

I remember that clip but afterwards thought that it may have been Power but there's no doubt that there's onboard footage. I had my attention diveded between the TV and here so I may have missed something.

 

[#17D500winner]

I wonder what the differences are between this and Indianapolis are. Is Vegas a narrower track? Seems like it is and if so I think that is the main part of the problem. They race 33 or so cars at Indy and they just don't get as bunched up at the start. And if they do, seems like there is more real estate to work with.

Another solution to this problem is that if you are going to race that many cars at an oval split the field up at the starts. 2 pace cars lead 2 groups separated by about a 1/8 of the oval length. I think this would string the field out better during the opening laps. Would that work?

One thing is that the steep banking allows them to run full out the whole way around the track and, IMO, Indy is about getting out the turns then powering down the stretches.

 

[#17D500winner]

Was horrible to watch, there was just this feeling I had as soon as cars went flying that nothing good was going to come from it, still shocked its not easy watching someone die entertaining you on live tv. RIP Dan,

Within seconds of seeing that crash I though someone isn't going to make it out of this.

 

[Greg]

So very sad, but a part of the sport. I know there are those that will want to blame Indycar for the bonus money they put up as a non-regular driver to win this race, but dammit, Dan was a former champ and two time Indy 500 winner.

As sad as it may seem, I am sure that Dan died a happy man, doing something that, sadly, he hasnt been able to do this year.

we as fans should never forget that the racers we watch and love/hate are sons/daughters, fathers/mothers, and friends to many. they are just as human as you and i. and as much as i love all forms of racing, the scar of death seriously effects me everytime.

R.I.P. Mr. Wheldon

Well said , nothing I can add but a few pics, to me they match the comments

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

They didnt show his onboard view but they did show powers, i think they only showed powers because they saw him get out of the car ok.

 

[Jameswnh]

I think that honestly, the drivers spoke today. They basically said it was a NASCAR Talladega race, without saying it. everybody was being aggressive too early, and they were bunched up nose to tail 2 and 3 wide. Danica said she saw it coming, so did others. They spoke today. I expect big changes for next year for ovals on the new setup.

I think you're right. Watching some interviews this morning, the drivers are really second guessing what they're doing at those kinds of tracks.

You have to wonder if they'll say anything about the schedule in the future. They still have Texas and Kentucky next year, they've added, and Vegas was already confirmed to hold the season finale again. It sounds like the drivers really do not want to go back to Vegas, at least.

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

Also i dont think it would happen but it would be a very nice thing if go daddy and the other sponsers gave the 2.5 million dan could have won and put it in a trust fund or something for his two young children, or something for their future schooling/college funds.

 

[HoneyBadger]

NBC Sports Network's Darren Rovell disagrees with everyone. He said the crash didn't look that bad, that the cars are safe citing that Jimmie Johnson survived a crash Saturday night because of the HANS device and that there weren't too many cars on the track because NASCAR starts 43 cars. That was his wonderful analysis on MSNBC News.

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

NBC Sports Network's Darren Rovell disagrees with everyone. He said the crash didn't look that bad, that the cars are safe citing that Jimmie Johnson survived a crash Saturday night because of the HANS device and that there weren't too many cars on the track because NASCAR starts 43 cars. That was his wonderful analysis on MSNBC News.

Do you have a link to that? I've been watching racing all my life and I can easily say that was the worst wreck I have ever seen.

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

This also made the front page of the New York Post here today but of course they put a horrible picture of the wreck on the front page though because they like to exploit anything that is a tragedy.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Do you have a link to that? I've been watching racing all my life and I can easily say that was the worst wreck I have ever seen.

If it goes on msnbc.com, I'll post it.

 

[robbybee]

Also i dont think it would happen but it would be a very nice thing if go daddy and the other sponsers gave the 2.5 million dan could have won and put it in a trust fund or something for his two young children, or something for their future schooling/college funds.

I have thought the same exact thing. It would ba a great humanitarian gesture. And it certainly would be good for their public relations department as well.