Kasey Kahne

StandOnIt said:
not to start an argument but that isn't what I know to be with last years Childress, Furniture Row teaming up. just the opposite. Furniture row had there guy at Childress. I listened to Tony on sirius radio and he never mentioned an engineer and all of those restrictions, in fact he said he can go to Hendrick and pick out any engine he wants to lease, said there was about 20 on flats in a room, pick one any one same engines Hendricks cars get.
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No man, no argument--just discussion.....I heard Bob Germain talk about the various "tiers" of service from Childress. Maybe Furniture Row had the lowest level of some sort--I do believe he mentioned one level that just involved engines--maybe FR's guy was getting what was offered or he could dig up. They still can't crack them, but there is no engineering that came with what he described. That is the only description of the tiered support that I have heard. I am certain that Tony gets the full meal deal inclusive of the engineering support. SHR is represented at the Hendrick Monday Debriefs. As for JGR and MWR....full TRD support on the motor side, and I they get whatever they need from the chassis facility in Salisbury. Other Toyota teams have access to the chassis facility for whatever they can afford. It is my understanding that TRD has nothing to do with non-TRD Toyota motors. I would love to know more details about the contracts and relationships---too bad it is such a freakin' secret.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Mark Martin.
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He won some races and had a top 5 finish in the points one year (much like Kasey in 2012) but other than that did not do much and in fact struggled pretty bad in 2011 if I remember right. Terry Labonte was the last guy to win a title in that car and that was a deal where he just rode around all year and did not have too many (possibly none) DNF's. Would not work well in this format.
 
ramfan9 said:
Terry Labonte was the last guy to win a title in that car and that was a deal where he just rode around all year and did not have too many (possibly none) DNF's. Would not work well in this format.
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In 1996 Labonte had three DNF's. He also had 21(!) top 5's that year in 31 races. In the last 12 races he had 11 top 5's, which would probably win him a title in nearly any format. Hardly what I would call "riding around".

original


LONG LIVE TEXAS TERRY!
 
But I get the point you guys are trying to make. Yeah I would agree Kasey has awful luck, but the team is still wayyyy too inconsistent
 
Also, just to put in perspective how impressive Terry's 1996 season was, Jimmie Johnson has never had 21 top 5's in a season ever (and he's had five more races to do it each season). Earnhardt just once in his career, Gordon twice.
 
TooSweet said:
In 1996 Labonte had three DNF's. He also had 21(!) top 5's that year in 31 races. In the last 12 races he had 11 top 5's, which would probably win him a title in nearly any format. Hardly what I would call "riding around".

original


LONG LIVE TEXAS TERRY!
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OK...I guess I sold him short....did not realize he had that many top 5's but my point was that he did not win much. All I remember about that year was all that was made of him winning the champinship with only 2 wins.
 
ramfan9 said:
OK...I guess I sold him short....did not realize he had that many top 5's but my point was that he did not win much. All I remember about that year was all that was made of him winning the champinship with only 2 wins.
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Ehh, even if he had gone winless, 21 top 5s in a season is an amazing run and definitely championship worthy. I remember being happy as a kid when Terry won the title. The Labontes were pretty much the only non-Ford guys that I could tolerate back then.

You've got to remember that consistency over an entire season used to mean so much more than it does now and look at it in those terms. It wasn't strictly about winning, which is how King Brian and plenty of others would like it to be today.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Ehh, even if he had gone winless, 21 top 5s in a season is an amazing run and definitely championship worthy. I remember being happy as a kid when Terry won the title. The Labontes were pretty much the only non-Ford guys that I could tolerate back then.

You've got to remember that consistency over an entire season used to mean so much more than it does now and look at it in those terms. It wasn't strictly about winning, which is how King Brian and plenty of others would like it to be today.
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I agree that it's an amazing feat and yes consistency used to mean something. All I am saying his I seem to remember his season being downplayed because it was still all about Earnhardt back in those days.
 
Now not only the only hendrick driver without a win, hes the only hendrick driver without MULTIPLE wins.

Chase Elliott is fillin up that rear view
 
JEB said:
Now not only the only hendrick driver without a win, hes the only hendrick driver without MULTIPLE wins.

Chase Elliott is fillin up that rear view
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He's not going to get fired for making the chase. He definitely should have a win by now though, I agree
 
Lots of time left for Kahne, he is close enough in points that he can get in without a win with a few good finishes..His competition for those spots are the two rookies, Larson and Dillon. I can't throw dirt on him yet for a chase spot, but there is no way in my mind he is going to win the championship this year.
 
ramfan9 said:
I agree that it's an amazing feat and yes consistency used to mean something. All I am saying his I seem to remember his season being downplayed because it was still all about Earnhardt back in those days.
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NASCAR was pretty far up Gordon's rear end by 1996 as well. Gordon won the championship the year before and for much of 1996 looked like he would win it again, but Terry with his two wins beat out Jeff Gordon with his 10 wins. With all the emphasis on winning now, we'll probably never see something like that again.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Ehh, even if he had gone winless, 21 top 5s in a season is an amazing run and definitely championship worthy. I remember being happy as a kid when Terry won the title. The Labontes were pretty much the only non-Ford guys that I could tolerate back then.

You've got to remember that consistency over an entire season used to mean so much more than it does now and look at it in those terms. It wasn't strictly about winning, which is how King Brian and plenty of others would like it to be today.
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I'm all for consistency but a driver who won 10 races losing the championship to a driver who won 2 races is pretty absurd, especially when they had the same number of Top 5s and Top 10s. But that was back when a win was just treated as just another position gained, earning 175 points. Eventually a win moved up to 180 and then 185 points, both of which would've gotten Gordon the championship.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I'm all for consistency but a driver who won 10 races losing the championship to a driver who won 2 races is pretty absurd, especially when they had the same number of Top 5s and Top 10s. But that was back when a win was just treated as just another position gained, earning 175 points. Eventually a win moved up to 180 and then 185 points, both of which would've gotten Gordon the championship.
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I never understood why they didn't just give the winner 190 pts, with the potential for 200 if they led the most laps. Even though Kenseth winning the title with one win in '03 while Newman won 8 times and finished 6th in points is credited with inspiring the Chase, there were other seasons where the champion had far fewer wins than the winningest driver. In 1985 Darrell Waltrip with 3 wins beat out 11-time winner Bill Elliott for the title. In '93 and '94, Rusty Wallace beat Earnhardt in the win column 10-6 and 8-4 respectively, but Earnhardt won the title both years. And of course, the aforementioned '96 season.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I'm all for consistency but a driver who won 10 races losing the championship to a driver who won 2 races is pretty absurd, especially when they had the same number of Top 5s and Top 10s. But that was back when a win was just treated as just another position gained, earning 175 points. Eventually a win moved up to 180 and then 185 points, both of which would've gotten Gordon the championship.
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Wow, I didn't know Jeffy had the same number of top 5s and top 10s as Terry that year. I'll admit that at first glance, it seems ridiculous that Jeff lost, but if you dig a little deeper into the stats, the picture becomes a little clearer.

Jeff had two more DNFs than Terry (5 to 3), and he had four finishes in the 30s and two in the 40s, whereas Terry only had one in the 30s, and that was at Rockingham in the spring, where Jeff finished 40th. Obviously I don't remember the details now, but from briefly skimming over the stats, it looks like Jeff's DNFs generally occurred earlier in races, and when he had issues, he was unable to get back out there and run for points, which gave him those worse finishes. With Terry, it appears to have been the exact opposite, and he completed 471 more laps than Jeff did. That gave Terry an average finish of 8.2 as opposed to Jeff's 9.5, which put Terry over the hump.

When two drivers are that good, it's the little stuff that'll make or break their championship hopes. Jeff and Terry were both incredibly consistent that year and both had great seasons. One guy had ten wins and the other guy only had one finish outside the top 20. That's insanity. But as consistent as Jeff was that year and as much as he won, Terry was just that much more consistent/lucky, and IMO he deserved it.
 
ToyYoda said:
I never understood why they didn't just give the winner 190 pts, with the potential for 200 if they led the most laps. Even though Kenseth winning the title with one win in '03 while Newman won 8 times and finished 6th in points is credited with inspiring the Chase, there were other seasons where the champion had far fewer wins than the winningest driver. In 1985 Darrell Waltrip with 3 wins beat out 11-time winner Bill Elliott for the title. In '93 and '94, Rusty Wallace beat Earnhardt in the win column 10-6 and 8-4 respectively, but Earnhardt won the title both years. And of course, the aforementioned '96 season.
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That's why I'm much more in favor of a scale like IndyCar's. Take their points scale and Newman wins '03, Elliott wins '85, Wallace wins '93, and Gordon wins '96. It's no coincidence that the IndyCar champion always has the most or second-most wins and roughly the third-best average finish. No Chase needed.
 
StandOnIt said:
Lots of time left for Kahne, he is close enough in points that he can get in without a win with a few good finishes..His competition for those spots are the two rookies, Larson and Dillon. I can't throw dirt on him yet for a chase spot, but there is no way in my mind he is going to win the championship this year.
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Of all the tracks left before the Chase the only one Kasey has NOT won at is Watkins Glen but he also does have a roadcourse win to his credit. I like his chances of making the Chase either by win or by points as long as they have no more bad luck. As for the championship...you're probably right. I don't see the TEAM as consistent enough for that unless they get hot at the right time but I will say picking anyone as a sure fire favorite or a sure fire non threat is hard because this format will be a total crapshoot.

As for this non stop talk about Chase taking his ride I find it pretty ignorant to honest. If Chase it taking his ride then it's already been decided and it has nothing to do with if Kasey wins a race or not. People just don't seem to get it....wins are HARD to come by no matter how good you run sometimes. Yesterday was a great example of that...Kasey drove an awesome race and led the most laps. His only mistake was screwing up the last restart which he owned up to but in hindsight he would not have won regardless. He ran out of gas on the last lap. If he had beaten Gordon on that restart he would have had to run harder to keep the lead and would have run out sooner and finished far worse. Had that happened he would be further out of the Chase. If come Richmond he makes the Chase by 10 points he will look back and be glad that he got beat on that restart. People need to get a clue about winning. Dale Jr has 2 this year...awesome....one was a plate race where he benfited from trash on the grill and the other was at Pocono where Brad gave it away trying to get trash off his grill. So both of wins were influenced by trash on the grill and had anything happened differently he may not have a single win. Matt Kenseth had 7 wins last year and none so far this year...did he forget how to drive? Rick is not sitting there and saying if Kasey does not win he's out. He will either be resigned or not based on many other factors. My personal opinion is that he will stay but I could be wrong.
 
ramfan9 said:
Of all the tracks left before the Chase the only one Kasey has NOT won at is Watkins Glen but he also does have a roadcourse win to his credit. I like his chances of making the Chase either by win or by points as long as they have no more bad luck. As for the championship...you're probably right. I don't see the TEAM as consistent enough for that unless they get hot at the right time but I will say picking anyone as a sure fire favorite or a sure fire non threat is hard because this format will be a total crapshoot.

As for this non stop talk about Chase taking his ride I find it pretty ignorant to honest. If Chase it taking his ride then it's already been decided and it has nothing to do with if Kasey wins a race or not. People just don't seem to get it....wins are HARD to come by no matter how good you run sometimes. Yesterday was a great example of that...Kasey drove an awesome race and led the most laps. His only mistake was screwing up the last restart which he owned up to but in hindsight he would not have won regardless. He ran out of gas on the last lap. If he had beaten Gordon on that restart he would have had to run harder to keep the lead and would have run out sooner and finished far worse. Had that happened he would be further out of the Chase. If come Richmond he makes the Chase by 10 points he will look back and be glad that he got beat on that restart. People need to get a clue about winning. Dale Jr has 2 this year...awesome....one was a plate race where he benfited from trash on the grill and the other was at Pocono where Brad gave it away trying to get trash off his grill. So both of wins were influenced by trash on the grill and had anything happened differently he may not have a single win. Matt Kenseth had 7 wins last year and none so far this year...did he forget how to drive? Rick is not sitting there and saying if Kasey does not win he's out. He will either be resigned or not based on many other factors. My personal opinion is that he will stay but I could be wrong.
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Exactly how I feel, but some people just like to bash Kasey for whatever reason.
 
KahneFan said:
Exactly how I feel, but some people just like to bash Kasey for whatever reason.
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LOL....I know right? Everyone thinks it's guaranteed that Chase is taking Kasey's ride just because he has done so well in NNS. As a former Elliott fan I love Chase but let's be honest....he's only 18 and his struggles at Indy prove he still has lots to learn and there is no reason to rush him to Cup UNLESS Gordon retires which he might just do after this season if he feels it's a good time to ride off into the sunset on the top of his game. If that does not happen I don't see how he and NAPA could take the 5 now that Farmer's has signed on as the primary through 2017. My best guess is that he will take the 41 from Kurt Busch in 2-3 years if Jeff does not retire unless Kurt runs better or they get a sponsor since Haas is putting up the money to field that car right now and let's be honest here...that's a Hendrick car for all intensive purposes.

Rick Hendrick became the power team in NASCAR by not being stupid. He is smart enough to realize that there are still TWO seats to fill and unless he thinks he can get someone better than Kasey long term one of them will be his. Now that Edwards appears to be going to a 4th JGR car and Biffle has resigned with RFR who else is there?
 
ramfan9 said:
LOL....I know right? Everyone thinks it's guaranteed that Chase is taking Kasey's ride just because he has done so well in NNS. As a former Elliott fan I love Chase but let's be honest....he's only 18 and his struggles at Indy prove he still has lots to learn and there is no reason to rush him to Cup UNLESS Gordon retires which he might just do after this season if he feels it's a good time to ride off into the sunset on the top of his game. If that does not happen I don't see how he and NAPA could take the 5 now that Farmer's has signed on as the primary through 2017. My best guess is that he will take the 41 from Kurt Busch in 2-3 years if Jeff does not retire unless Kurt runs better or they get a sponsor since Haas is putting up the money to field that car right now and let's be honest here...that's a Hendrick car for all intensive purposes.

Rick Hendrick became the power team in NASCAR by not being stupid. He is smart enough to realize that there are still TWO seats to fill and unless he thinks he can get someone better than Kasey long term one of them will be his. Now that Edwards appears to be going to a 4th JGR car and Biffle has resigned with RFR who else is there?
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I agree 100%, I don't see Rick dropping kasey anytime soon. People act like he's so off and runs so bad just because he doesn't have the stats that his teammates have. In reality he does have good runs, but has horrible luck that takes away from it.

I think Kasey signs a extension through 2018, or somewhere along those lines. And I think Chase ends up with Gordon's ride either 2015, or 2016. Most likely 2016.
 
Kasey has never been a threat to win a championship, but there are plenty of others drivers with long careers driving for good teams that haven't been either. Harvick and Biffle are a couple, Menard, Jr, Boyer, Kyle Busch and plenty more..I am sure some will disagree to the degree of certain drivers potential to win a championship, but these are some of the upper echelon who have raced for many years who are championship win less and in the same boat as Kahne. Win less.
 
StandOnIt said:
Kasey has never been a threat to win a championship, but there are plenty of others drivers with long careers driving for good teams that haven't been either. Harvick and Biffle are a couple, Menard, Jr, Boyer, Kyle Busch and plenty more..I am sure some will disagree to the degree of certain drivers potential to win a championship, but these are some of the upper echelon who have raced for many years who are championship win less and in the same boat as Kahne. Win less.
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You are right about that but I still feel that Kasey will be a major threat for at least one or two champioships before its all said and done. If he had made the Chase in 2011 when he was in the Red Bull car he would have been a threat with the way he ran despite amazing performances in The Chase from Stewart and Edwards. He was right with them the whole time. He was also close in 2012 but did have a bad Chase in 2013. If the scale ever tips the other way and his bad luck changes he has the talent.
 
reck said:
I dont think he is overrated. He is not a driver everyone expects to see win every race or contend for titles every year.

He's like a Biffle type driver. Wins 1 or 2 races a year and doesn't do much of anything in the championship scheme of things.
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Lets not forget with the right teammates on his side, Matt and Carl), Biffle has led the points for a good portion of the season before. Him and Matt were a good pair for each other and could rely on each other for information to improve each others car. Now with new young teammates and a struggling Roush team, Biffle has been quiet. Lets not forget though, who has a CWTS Title, NNS Title, and if things improve could be the first to claim all three major titles.
 
Brandon Hall said:
Lets not forget with the right teammates on his side, Matt and Carl), Biffle has led the points for a good portion of the season before. Him and Matt were a good pair for each other and could rely on each other for information to improve each others car. Now with new young teammates and a struggling Roush team, Biffle has been quiet. Lets not forget though, who has a CWTS Title, NNS Title, and if things improve could be the first to claim all three major titles.
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Biffs a great driver that wasted his prime driving for Roush, now he's to old to get another too ride so he's stuck there. Should've went to Gibbs when he had the chance
 
StandOnIt said:
Kasey has never been a threat to win a championship, but there are plenty of others drivers with long careers driving for good teams that haven't been either. Harvick and Biffle are a couple, Menard, Jr, Boyer, Kyle Busch and plenty more..I am sure some will disagree to the degree of certain drivers potential to win a championship, but these are some of the upper echelon who have raced for many years who are championship win less and in the same boat as Kahne. Win less.
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Harv had a chance to win it in 2010, and Bowyer finished second in points in 2012. Had Gordon not taken him out at Phoenix, who knows what would have happened?
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Harv had a chance to win it in 2010, and Bowyer finished second in points in 2012. Had Gordon not taken him out at Phoenix, who knows what would have happened?
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what happened was racing. Racing happened. But like Kahne, those drivers for whatever reason are still win less. It isn't easy to win the whole thing, you have to be good everywhere and have the chips fall your way. Kahne in many areas isn't even close, but he usually gets into the playoffs.
 
What happened at Indy is one of the reasons this sport is so great. Gordon completely got into Kasey's head and owned him. That race was over before the restart the way Jeff pushed him to go quicker, lined up on the inside, etc. It's interesting.....Kasey and Kyle share a level of competitiveness when it comes to challenging for the title (really haven't been there at the end), but I will say in a situation like that, Kyle Busch would never get intimidated. In fact, I would say that Jeff wouldn't even try that **** with him. You could see that Kasey was beaten down by the babbling after he got out of the car. Jeff crushed him.
 
Revman said:
What happened at Indy is one of the reasons this sport is so great. Gordon completely got into Kasey's head and owned him. That race was over before the restart the way Jeff pushed him to go quicker, lined up on the inside, etc. It's interesting.....Kasey and Kyle share a level of competitiveness when it comes to challenging for the title (really haven't been there at the end), but I will say in a situation like that, Kyle Busch would never get intimidated. In fact, I would say that Jeff wouldn't even try that **** with him. You could see that Kasey was beaten down by the babbling after he got out of the car. Jeff crushed him.
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Jeff pressured him for numerous laps prior to the last caution and Kasey never cracked, so I don't think he pressured him to do anything. Kasey was short on gas anyways so it didn't matter if Jeff ran him harder or not. If kasey pits one lap later and gets ahead of Jeff on the last restart its a different ball game, and everyone would be talking about how Jeff choked.
 
KahneFan said:
Jeff pressured him for numerous laps prior to the last caution and Kasey never cracked, so I don't think he pressured him to do anything. Kasey was short on gas anyways so it didn't matter if Jeff ran him harder or not. If kasey pits one lap later and gets ahead of Jeff on the last restart its a different ball game, and everyone would be talking about how Jeff choked.
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Fair points, but honestly, I don't want my driver whining about **** on his tires moments before the restart of his career. If Kyle hadn't been in third, I would have wanted Kasey to put a bumper to Jeff for the bull****, and drive away. This is the corner Kasey must turn IMO.
 
KahneFan said:
Jeff pressured him for numerous laps prior to the last caution and Kasey never cracked, so I don't think he pressured him to do anything. Kasey was short on gas anyways so it didn't matter if Jeff ran him harder or not. If kasey pits one lap later and gets ahead of Jeff on the last restart its a different ball game, and everyone would be talking about how Jeff choked.
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I can't say Kasey's pit cost him the race, but they sure as heck didn't help matters, telling him to save fuel while Jeff is on his bumper. Not only giving him something else to worry about, but why in the heck is he short of fuel in he first place.
 
Revman said:
What happened at Indy is one of the reasons this sport is so great. Gordon completely got into Kasey's head and owned him. That race was over before the restart the way Jeff pushed him to go quicker, lined up on the inside, etc. It's interesting.....Kasey and Kyle share a level of competitiveness when it comes to challenging for the title (really haven't been there at the end), but I will say in a situation like that, Kyle Busch would never get intimidated. In fact, I would say that Jeff wouldn't even try that **** with him. You could see that Kasey was beaten down by the babbling after he got out of the car. Jeff crushed him.
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:rolleyes: What're you even talking about. Gordon had the class of the field and won, simple as that. Nobody had a chance
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Harv had a chance to win it in 2010, and Bowyer finished second in points in 2012. Had Gordon not taken him out at Phoenix, who knows what would have happened?
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Even without the Drive To End Bowyer, I think Kez was far enough ahead to still win the 2012 Championship.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
:rolleyes: What're you even talking about. Gordon had the class of the field and won, simple as that. Nobody had a chance
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Don't agree. He was ordinary in traffic--just like everybody else. Don't get me wrong--Jeff deserved what he got, but he wasn't what the media is portraying IMO. Kasey shat himself.
 
Revman said:
Don't agree. He was ordinary in traffic--just like everybody else. Don't get me wrong--Jeff deserved what he got, but he wasn't what the media is portraying IMO. Kasey shat himself.
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I think Kasey was in fuel conservation mode late in that race. I believe he had a better car than Gordon, but since he's relying on points right now to get into the Chase, he needed to salvage a good finish. Considering he pretty much ran out of gas as he was taking the checkers, it was probably a good move.
 
Revman said:
Don't agree. He was ordinary in traffic--just like everybody else. Don't get me wrong--Jeff deserved what he got, but he wasn't what the media is portraying IMO. Kasey shat himself.
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Except he wasn't in traffic he restarted on the front row with fresher tires and a better car. I guess we know Revman is the Dr. Phil of NASCAR :rolleyes:
 
DaBiff1618 said:
Except he wasn't in traffic he restarted on the front row with fresher tires and a better car. I guess we know Revman is the Dr. Phil of NASCAR :rolleyes:
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Kind of the point I'm making is that like usual, the guy in front was a hero. Kyle Busch in clean air was laying down some ridiculous lap times. I like Dr. Phil. Smart dude. I often feel needed around here. :D
 
Revman said:
Kind of the point I'm making is that like usual, the guy in front was a hero. Kyle Busch in clean air was laying down some ridiculous lap times. I like Dr. Phil. Smart dude. I often feel needed around here. :D
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Kyle Busch never lead a lap at Indy.:idunno:
 
Its a bi-product of this aero package, whoever gets out front in clean air will win. Didn't matter if it was Gordon, Kahne, Busch, the last restart pretty much dictated the outcome of the race.

Im not trying to make excuses, but there's more to it then "this guy sucks" or "that guy sucks".
 
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