Kasey Kahne

pudge said:
IMO Kenny Francis is a top 5 crew chief
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He's great at setting up cars, but his in race strategy is god awful. I think it's just time for a change, they've been together for years and never shown consistency
 
DaBiff1618 said:
He's great at setting up cars, but his in race strategy is god awful. I think it's just time for a change, they've been together for years and never shown consistency
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change sometimes does benefit those involved
 
Greg said:
Got it, I am all wrong and your first response implied I am ignorant.
You originally made luck sound huge to the point of discrediting the accomplishments.

Thats why I tried to end the conversation with you and I am doing it now. A discussion with someone that is impervious to logic and good at insults isnt worth my time.

You can have the last word.
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LOL...peace bro....I appreceiaate you giving me the last word and I use it just to say chill. We can agree to disagree. I think that the majority of the time championships boil down to luck and you think luck has NOTHING to do with it. It's all good. If were offneded by the BORDERLINE ignorant comment sorry about that but I just don't understand how anyone with understanding of basic logic can say that in a sport where 43 guys are driving around at 200+ MPH combine with all the moving parts on the car can fail has NOTHING to do with luck. I'm not going to discredit Jimmie Johnson's accomplishments because there is already enoug of that going on since his name is NOT Jr. and I already gave you that he's a multiple time champ without good luck. All I'm saying is maybe NOT 6 times without very good luck.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
Ive been a diehard Kahne fan his whole career, but I'm tired of defending his mediocrity. Given the performance and ability to win of his other teammates, and the fact he was hardly a factor at one of his best tracks, I think Hendrick should make a driver change. I would dump Kahne for Carl Edwards or Chase Elliott in a heartbeat
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C'mon man he drove a good race and 10th is not bad. I agree that it may be time for a new Crew Chief as their startegy was out to lunch today but the car was good - maybe not a winning car but top 5 for sure. I found the entire race to be very frustrating because there were so many different cars on so many different strategies. I was watching it with my nephew who is a Biffle fan and in the early parts of the race he was so pissed about how bad their car was and leter I told him that with all the strategy of this race the result will have little do with how good the car is and more todo with whose startegy works out perfect and it turned out to be JR. All that metters is that the car was good for Kasey.
DaBiff1618 said:
He's great at setting up cars, but his in race strategy is god awful. I think it's just time for a change, they've been together for years and never shown consistency
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DaBiff1618 said:
He's great at setting up cars, but his in race strategy is god awful. I think it's just time for a change, they've been together for years and never shown consistency
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I agree with that. I thnk Kenny should take the engineer position that Kieth Rodden left and they should try a new Crew Chief. I like Kenny But the startegy is not there all the time. I think Ray Evernham should step in and give it a shot - I know he has said that he has no interest in it but I think he should try - he and Kasey got along well in Kasey's EMS days.
 
Must be frustrating for Kahne seeing JR, JJ and Gordon racking up wins, meanwhile he's in danger of missing the Chase.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
Must be frustrating for Kahne seeing JR, JJ and Gordon racking up wins, meanwhile he's in danger of missing the Chase.
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Yeah...but it happens.....we all know how win challenged Jr was prior to this year and Gordon has had some lean/winless years as well. Now you have guys like Matt Kenseth who won 7 races last year yet to get a win this year and Tony Stewart as well who has the current longest active streak of seasons with at least one win. Those guys did not forget and suddenly remember how to drive again this year. Wins are always tough to come by. I am pretty confident that Kasey will get a win in one of the last 4 leading up to The Chase and if he does or makes the chase by points I don't think he can be discounted as a threat. Their cars seem to be getting better and better by the week and they may just peake at the perfect time. If not I still don't see Hendrick letting Kasey go. They have not been consistent but the 5 car has not been for a long time and once Gordon retires that may change as more resources may be applied to the 5.
 
ramfan9 said:
and if he does or makes the chase by points I don't think he can be discounted as a threat.
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i think only a Kasey fan would agree with this, and not all of them. and i know Newman has no chance, and i accept that. as far as Kasey being booted from the 5 car, i don't think that happens next season, but the season after it could. i don't think he nowhere near a threat for a championship regardless if he's in the chase or not.
 
pudge said:
i think only a Kasey fan would agree with this, and not all of them. and i know Newman has no chance, and i accept that. as far as Kasey being booted from the 5 car, i don't think that happens next season, but the season after it could. i don't think he nowhere near a threat for a championship regardless if he's in the chase or not.
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I did not say he WOULD be a threat. I said he can't be counted out as a POSSIBLE threat. I say this because as a fan of his I know when they hit it and get hot they will be as good as anyone. The team seems to be getting better by the week and are showing the speed more consistently. Also, we already know he will be in the 5 next year as his contract is through 2015. I still think he will be there after that. I could be wrong but my reasoning was listed in my post that was already too long the first time I posted it Saturday so I don't want to go over it again. Kasey just seems really confortable right now and he is highly involved in a lot of stuff with HMS partners and sponsors it you look at his twitter such. He does not strike me as a guys who is worried about his ride.

As for Newman, yeah....sorry. I agree with ya there. He just never seems to be a threat to win anymore. Kasey still does show the speed most weeks.
 
Newman may not be a threat, but ole no threat is filth in points, with no DNF's
 
I think outside of his 6 win season with Evernham, Kasey has never showed himself to be a championship contender. He's a high risk, high reward driver. Seems to get caught up on a lot wrecks, some not of his doing but others totally his own fault. Even in his first year at HMS when he finished 4th in points, he wasn't a true contender for most of the year but made up significant ground when some other guys faltered near the end. If you go back the last 10 years, Kahne has more DNF's than any other full time driver in a quality ride/top tier team.
 
pudge said:
Newman may not be a threat, but ole no threat is filth in points, with no DNF's
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That's what happens when you ride around with a 10th-15th place car all year and have little or no bad luck. That's kind of my whole point I was getting at before about points and championships being related to luck.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
I think outside of his 6 win season with Evernham, Kasey has never showed himself to be a championship contender. He's a high risk, high reward driver. Seems to get caught up on a lot wrecks, some not of his doing but others totally his own fault. Even in his first year at HMS when he finished 4th in points, he wasn't a true contender for most of the year but made up significant ground when some other guys faltered near the end. If you go back the last 10 years, Kahne has more DNF's than any other full time driver in a quality ride/top tier team.
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I am trying hard to remember a time when Kasey was caught up in something that WAS his fault. I anot saying it hasn't happend...I just don't remember it happening that much. I disagree thatv Kasey was a title threat in 2006. He was much more of a threat when he finished 4th because they had the speed more consistently. The only reason I give him an outside shot now is the format. You only have to beat 4 other guys every round and if you're there and hot at the end it's up for grabs. The format favors Kasey if they hit that typical streak of their's at the right time. They DO have to make it first though before that's even possible.
 
ramfan9 said:
That's what happens when you ride around with a 10th-15th place car all year and have little or no bad luck. That's kind of my whole point I was getting at before about points and championships being related to luck.
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I think luck plays a small role but does not determine anything when it comes to titles, theres too many races to run too many other factors.

One could argue that in fact there is no such thing as luck, good or bad. All things can be attributed to the laws of probability. If one leads enough races enough times, the chances of winning become much higher. If one gets loose off the turn every lap, it become much more likely you will wreck. So while a guy like JJ might seem like he gets lucky a lot, in the big picture there are so many more factors that affected the outcome than just "luck". He puts himself in good positions all the time, thus he capitalizes a lot and seems like he gets lucky. You might get lucky with a rain shortened race and steal a win, but you won't steal a championship IMO. In regards to Kasey, he seems like he gets into a lot of unlucky wrecks but in actuality it his driving decisions/ style that get him there more often than not.
 
ramfan9 said:
I am trying hard to remember a time when Kasey was caught up in something that WAS his fault. I anot saying it hasn't happend...I just don't remember it happening that much. I disagree thatv Kasey was a title threat in 2006. He was much more of a threat when he finished 4th because they had the speed more consistently. The only reason I give him an outside shot now is the format. You only have to beat 4 other guys every round and if you're there and hot at the end it's up for grabs. The format favors Kasey if they hit that typical streak of their's at the right time. They DO have to make it first though before that's even possible.
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He wrecked himself on lap 2 at Phoenix (2012) when he sat on the pole, last year at Bristol (might have been 2012, can't quite remember), this year at Daytona. That just off the top of my head.
 
ramfan9 said:
That's what happens when you ride around with a 10th-15th place car all year and have little or no bad luck. That's kind of my whole point I was getting at before about points and championships being related to luck.
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some say luck, i say skill. when is Kasey running that high, only when pit strategy comes into play. you act as if Kasey is up front every week but some kind of bad luck takes him out. just can't understand how you think Kasey is so much better than Newman. maybe FLRacingFan can show us some stats on the two, because i feel they would be close, but i've been wrong before. maybe Kasey should follow Newman for 3/4 of the race for the luck part and the last 1/4 use his great skills and then the championships will come.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
He wrecked himself on lap 2 at Phoenix (2012) when he sat on the pole, last year at Bristol (might have been 2012, can't quite remember), this year at Daytona. That just off the top of my head.
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I will give you Phoneix because he just lost it with a good car that day but the Bristol race you are referring to was a spotter issue. Kasey's spotter - who was his cousin Kole at the time - told him he was clear and he wasn't. His cousin got fired after that. I can't give you Daytone this year either - it was a wet pit road and Kasey was not the only one to spin out on it. Ironically after he did that he had to speed to AVOID another car that was spinning on pit road and they still penalized him anyway. But yes, Phoenix was all him but drivers do mess up here and there and Kasey should not be held to a standard of pefection. Just ask Dale Jr who decided the lawn needed to be cut at Texas.
 
pudge said:
some say luck, i say skill. when is Kasey running that high, only when pit strategy comes into play. you act as if Kasey is up front every week but some kind of bad luck takes him out. just can't understand how you think Kasey is so much better than Newman. maybe FLRacingFan can show us some stats on the two, because i feel they would be close, but i've been wrong before. maybe Kasey should follow Newman for 3/4 of the race for the luck part and the last 1/4 use his great skills and then the championships will come.
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Well I definitely think Kasey is better than Newman. Half Newman's career wins came in one season. Over the course of their careers Kasey has been the more consistent in terms of winning, also Kasey had some less than stellar cars for a few years. Overall I'd put them in the same tier, both race winning capable and Chase contenders but not true championship caliber, I'd put Biffle in there too. Good not great.
 
ramfan9 said:
I will give you Phoneix because he just lost it with a good car that day but the Bristol race you are referring to was a spotter issue. Kasey's spotter - who was his cousin Kole at the time - told him he was clear and he wasn't. His cousin got fired after that. I can't give you Daytone this year either - it was a wet pit road and Kasey was not the only one to spin out on it. Ironically after he did that he had to speed to AVOID another car that was spinning on pit road and they still penalized him anyway. But yes, Phoenix was all him but drivers do mess up here and there and Kasey should not be held to a standard of pefection. Just ask Dale Jr who decided the lawn needed to be cut at Texas.
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Ok I hear what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that luck didn't make the pit road wet, and luck didn't make him spin out. His driving is why he spun out, the circumstances are what made the outcome more probable than the other possible outcomes. He seems to be fast with a loose car, coming from a dirt background that makes sense. It's just when you have a loose car, you can get yourself into bad situations more often than somebody being more conservative. I think he's a top 15-10 driver.
 
pudge said:
some say luck, i say skill. when is Kasey running that high, only when pit strategy comes into play. you act as if Kasey is up front every week but some kind of bad luck takes him out. just can't understand how you think Kasey is so much better than Newman. maybe FLRacingFan can show us some stats on the two, because i feel they would be close, but i've been wrong before. maybe Kasey should follow Newman for 3/4 of the race for the luck part and the last 1/4 use his great skills and then the championships will come.
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That's funny.....I don't remember actually saying I thought Kasey was better...whch I would not have because I don't go to the whole "better" argument because first the paramaters of "better" would have to have to be clearly defined. I have also never said that Kasey was out front all the time and bad things happen. I am saying the team has not had the speed all year consitently but are starting to show it now. And you kind of make my point about luck when you point out that Newman has no DNF's. Yes that's part skill but if some of the same things happened to Newman that happened to Kasey he would have some. Kasey had DNF's at both Daytona races that were not of his making, Talledga as well, got wrecked the first Pocono race by Kyle Busch and lost a rear hub at Califonia - all while running high except Daytona in February and those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head. He is ONE pont out of the chase right now but easilly lost 100 points for those DNF's. If Newman lost 100 points he'd be sitting right about 19th in the points. Also - he is 7th in points - not 5th - get your facts straight.
 
10 or 11 thousand more times of people saying Newman is not good and i'm gonna choose a new driver
 
ramfan9 said:
he is 7th in points - not 5th - get your facts straight.
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i believe you need to recheck your facts....he is 5th, Joey is 7th, with JJ between them
 
pudge said:
10 or 11 thousand more times of people saying Newman is not good and i'm gonna choose a new driver
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Haha, the thing with Newman is that he doesn't make any friends on the track and generally considered one of the least courteous drivers on the circuit. So I find there's a lot of fans out there that feel he may have slighted their driver once or twice before, and that hasn't helped his popularity. He sure could put a car on the pole though.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
Ok I hear what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that luck didn't make the pit road wet, and luck didn't make him spin out. His driving is why he spun out, the circumstances are what made the outcome more probable than the other possible outcomes. He seems to be fast with a loose car, coming from a dirt background that makes sense. It's just when you have a loose car, you can get yourself into bad situations more often than somebody being more conservative. I think he's a top 15-10 driver.
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I agree with you to a point on the pit road incident but if that was the onyly thing bad that happned to Kasey that night they probably overcome it as they only lost one lap an there were plenty of cautions late to get him back on the lead lap. He was later penalzed and lost ANOTHER lap because ANOTHER car was spinning on the wet pit road and Kasey had to speed up to avoid a collision and NASCAR penalized him for speeding which put him in the back where he was caught up in another wreck not of his making. Also, prior to the pit road incident he was leading the race. He screwed up yes but I don't think it was his screw up that cost them that day as much as the other facotrs.
 
i know i need to let up on Kasey, but my best friend is a Kasey fan, and he gets me riled up and when he's gone all i have is this board. so i'll calm down. Kasey is the better of the two, Newman is just a dud.
 
ramfan9 said:
All I know is he is 7th in overall driver standings and I can't see how he would be seeded 5th with no wins. All the guys that make it with wins will be seeded higher than him.
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i'm confused on how you come up with 7th...he's 5th in standings right now. if chase stated next week he would be 13th so 7th is not even an option right now.
 
ramfan9 said:
All I know is he is 7th in overall driver standings and I can't see how he would be seeded 5th with no wins. All the guys that make it with wins will be seeded higher than him.
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Perhaps you were looking at PRE POCONOS standings? If I'm not mistaken, he'll be seeded 13th in the Chase standings, as of right now.

In the pre Chase standings he currently sits 5th.
Gordon 757
DEJr 740
Kez 687
Kenseth 668
Newman 642
 
pudge said:
i know i need to let up on Kasey, but my best friend is a Kasey fan, and he gets me riled up and when he's gone all i have is this board. so i'll calm down. Kasey is the better of the two, Newman is just a dud.
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I would NEVER call Newman a dud. He can drive - and having zero DNF's is an accomplishment even if it is not all entirely in your control. Still have to keep it off the wall. In my opinion though it's easier to do that when there are no expectations of winning. Newman is not under the pressure that Kasey is under because no ine expects him to win with RCR right now....they are headed downhill.
 
pudge said:
i'm confused on how you come up with 7th...he's 5th in standings right now. if chase stated next week he would be 13th so 7th is not even an option right now.
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nascar.com has him lsted as 7th......

Driver car PointsPts BehindBhd Starts Wins Top 5 Top 10 DNF + / -
1
Hendrick Motorsports
Jeff Gordon
24 717 Leader 20 2 7 14 0 0
2
Hendrick Motorsports
Dale Earnhardt Jr
88 693 -24 20 2 9 14 1 0
3
Team Penske
Brad Keselowski
2 666 -51 20 3 9 10 0 0
4
Joe Gibbs Racing
Matt Kenseth
20 661 -56 20 0 8 13 1 0
5
Hendrick Motorsports
Jimmie Johnson
48 628 -89 20 3 6 12 2 0
6
Joe Gibbs Racing
Kyle Busch
18 609 -108 20 1 6 9 2 2
positionUp.png

7
Richard Childress Racing
Ryan Newman
31 606 -111 20 0 2 7 0 0
8
Roush Fenway Racing
Carl Edwards
 
you're a good man ramfan9, i love to be able to talk junk about another driver, and their fans not get all bitchy about it.
 
nascarcom is not a good choice for correct info about racing, but really right now he is 5th in points. just checked that, it's at 20 races, there has been 21 now
 
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ramfan9 said:
nascar.com has him lsted as 7th......

Driver car PointsPts BehindBhd Starts Wins Top 5 Top 10 DNF + / -
1
Hendrick Motorsports
Jeff Gordon
24 717 Leader 20 2 7 14 0 0
2
Hendrick Motorsports
Dale Earnhardt Jr
88 693 -24 20 2 9 14 1 0
3
Team Penske
Brad Keselowski
2 666 -51 20 3 9 10 0 0
4
Joe Gibbs Racing
Matt Kenseth
20 661 -56 20 0 8 13 1 0
5
Hendrick Motorsports
Jimmie Johnson
48 628 -89 20 3 6 12 2 0
6
Joe Gibbs Racing
Kyle Busch
18 609 -108 20 1 6 9 2 2
positionUp.png

7
Richard Childress Racing
Ryan Newman
31 606 -111 20 0 2 7 0 0
8
Roush Fenway Racing
Carl Edwards
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Yeah those were old, that explains it. Kyle dropped like 4 spots after his DNF.
 
ramfan9 said:
LOL...You mean he dropped a bunch after a DNF which was just bad luck since it was not his fault? I wonder when NASCAR plans to update their standings.
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Hey, he signed with a Toyota team he knew the risks haha. Yeah, as Pudge said NASCAR.com is terribly slow to update, which is ridiculous considering its the official site.
 
I just read a cool stat that backs up the fact that Kasey had a good car and is doing all he can. He had a race high 72 quality passses on Sunday. Quality passes are cars in the top 15 under green...that is impressive.
 
pudge said:
10 or 11 thousand more times of people saying Newman is not good and i'm gonna choose a new driver
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pudge said:
Kasey is the better of the two, Newman is just a dud.
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LOL! Stop it, pudge. I've said this before and I'll say it again - I'm impressed with Newman this year. I didn't think he'd do anything in the 31, but he's had quiet, solid runs going pretty much every week.
 
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