Matt DiBenedetto appreciation thread

aunty dive said:
Good find.

"The sharp increase raised eyebrows in the garage, particularly with it coming at a time when FRR was struggling to make ends meet. But history in NASCAR has shown that when the smaller team buying parts from a bigger team starts to beat that bigger team, the bigger team will naturally feel that its services have gone up in value. For example, Hendrick Motorsports supplied chassis and engines to Stewart-Haas Racing starting in 2009, but Stewart-Haas eventually started winning championships in Hendrick’s equipment, and the relationship eroded and eventually ended in 2016."

In other words, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Click to expand...

I was thinking that Ford pursued SHR and they wanted to start building their own chassis. It seemed liked they walked away rather getting pushed away or forced out of HMS.
 
aunty dive said:
Linky?
Click to expand...
Discussed ad nauseum here last year, complete with links. The search function is your friend if you care enough to spend the time (I don't). However, it's not remotely like the HMS-SHR breakup in any relevant way.

Formerjackman said:
Which begs the question, does Leavine get a better deal than Visser did, because if not, I don't see how they could afford to stay in business either , and if he IS getting a better deal, WHY?
Click to expand...
The financial arrangements between Gibbs and Leavine have not been publicly discussed by the parties involved the way the Gibbs-Visser arrangements were, so we don't really know.

That said, I believe Leavine is paying less than Visser ever paid. First, he has a lesser deal, using older used cars, etc. Second, he isn't being charged the ~$9 million blood money ($3M going up to $12M = $9M) that Gibbs tried to impose on Visser because (a) he isn't a threat to Gibbs, (b) he can't afford to pay it, and (c) Gibbs needs Leavine to be his fifth car in 2020.
 
Greg said:
I was thinking that Ford pursued SHR and they wanted to start building their own chassis. It seemed liked they walked away rather getting pushed away or forced out of HMS.
Click to expand...
That makes sense.

From a dollars and cents point of view, they came out ahead ... instead of paying HMS, they get paid by Ford and I would imagine the engineering support, wind tunnel time and access to Ford’s state of the art driving simulator are equal to or greater than what they were paying Rick H. for. HMS’s performance slide is a good indicator of that. It occurs to me that Hendrick’s outfit benefited more from it’s alliance with SHR than their “junior partner did. That is speculation.

Without the on-track benefits of an “alliance”, SHR, Visser and Leavine would all be much less accomplished than they were /are. The Wood Brothers would be lost in the wilderness without Penske as would the rest of the mid-field, most of whom rely on one of the big teams in one way or another.

Beyond all that, I find the constant berating of the major players in this game offensive. They’re racing ... from Monday to Sunday, 52 weeks a year and they will do what it takes to succeed. Be grateful that most of the drug runners and con artists are gone. You wouldn’t think so given the disrespectful, accusatory and usually ignorant commentary on display on The Intergoogle.

They race. We watch. Want to watch a lesser show? Easy ... kit cars, crate motors and 217 new rules that have nothing to do with the cars.

Rant over ...
 
Sure is a lot of BS in this thread. Carry on....

:lurk:
 
Its easy to pick out who the Toyoter muppets and shills are.
 
Snappy D said:
It was a business decision which I have zero problem with and I stated from the beginning . But BS is so much more entertaining I guess.
Click to expand...

Yes, it was a business decision. We are not obligated to agree with the decision, the reason it was made or the people who made it however. It's also true that nobody involved is obligated to tell us why the decisions that have been made were made, but it's also true that if you are not going to lay out all of the facts, then you can't get upset when people trade in what you call BS. The "BS" is trying to draw conclusions from the very few facts we have to work with. At the end of the day racing is in the entertainment business, and people are free to like or dislike whatever they want, rational or not. It's highly probable that Toyota will once again win the battle on the race track, but they may also lose the public relations war.
 
Formerjackman said:
Yes, it was a business decision. We are not obligated to agree with the decision, the reason it was made or the people who made it however. It's also true that nobody involved is obligated to tell us why the decisions that have been made were made, but it's also true that if you are not going to lay out all of the facts, then you can't get upset when people trade in what you call BS. The "BS" is trying to draw conclusions from the very few facts we have to work with. At the end of the day racing is in the entertainment business, and people are free to like or dislike whatever they want, rational or not. It's highly probable that Toyota will once again win the battle on the race track, but they may also lose the public relations war.
Click to expand...
I dont think you're wrong in anything you said here and I wasnt at all taking a shot at you in my statement above. I just interpreted the situation as a business decision and thats all I took from it. I wouldnt care if Preacher Joe or TRD gave us an explanation and to be honest imo what Bob has tweeted out about this matter has been more than what we deserve to know and hes gone above and beyond in that regard.
 
TRD really needs Kyle Busch or somebody to buy into a team like Stewart did with SHR.
 
Formerjackman said:
It's highly probable that Toyota will once again win the battle on the race track, but they may also lose the public relations war.
Click to expand...

They have never had a shot in hell in the PR war, and you know that. They aren't going after the dislikers. They are lost. They know that. Like all things, NASCAR is changing, and many hate the deeper manufacturer involvement, but $ has made that necessary. Toyota and Ford are on top, and Chevy is lost. Why might that be?
 
Revman said:
They have never had a shot in hell in the PR war, and you know that. They aren't going after the dislikers. They are lost. They know that. Like all things, NASCAR is changing, and many hate the deeper manufacturer involvement, but $ has made that necessary. Toyota and Ford are on top, and Chevy is lost. Why might that be?
Click to expand...
They have almost caught the Hudsons
upload_2019-8-21_18-33-42.png
 
Revman said:
They have never had a shot in hell in the PR war, and you know that. They aren't going after the dislikers. They are lost. They know that. Like all things, NASCAR is changing, and many hate the deeper manufacturer involvement, but $ has made that necessary. Toyota and Ford are on top, and Chevy is lost. Why might that be?
Click to expand...

Lets be honest. Manufacturers primarily get into racing to make consumers get a warm an fuzzy feeling about their brand. Winning plays a role in that, but it's not just about winning, and if the perception is that you are bunch of A-holes, it's a lot harder to give people that warm and fuzzy feeling. Toyota got into NASCAR to try to convince a big segment of people that normally wouldn't even CONSIDER their brand that "hey, we're alright, we're one of you, not the enemy." Just like the brand's lead driver, you can win a million races, but if people STILL don't like you, it's hard to move product.
 
Formerjackman said:
Lets be honest. Manufacturers primarily get into racing to make consumers get a warm an fuzzy feeling about their brand. Winning plays a role in that, but it's not just about winning, and if the perception is that you are bunch of A-holes, it's a lot harder to give people that warm and fuzzy feeling. Toyota got into NASCAR to try to convince a big segment of people that normally wouldn't even CONSIDER their brand that "hey, we're alright, we're one of you, not the enemy." Just like the brand's lead driver, you can win a million races, but if people STILL don't like you, it's hard to move product.
Click to expand...
and they had a bird in the hand and they let him go. Load gun, shoot foot. They should be loading up one of their latest n greatest and hauling it over to LFR.
 
Formerjackman said:
I think I know where you are going with this, so I went and checked. In 2007 Toyota's top three car models sold around twice as many cars as their top three car models did in 2018. Take it for what its worth, your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...
The Ford was still at the top back then. :cool:
 
Formerjackman said:
Lets be honest. Manufacturers primarily get into racing to make consumers get a warm an fuzzy feeling about their brand. Winning plays a role in that, but it's not just about winning, and if the perception is that you are bunch of A-holes, it's a lot harder to give people that warm and fuzzy feeling. Toyota got into NASCAR to try to convince a big segment of people that normally wouldn't even CONSIDER their brand that "hey, we're alright, we're one of you, not the enemy." Just like the brand's lead driver, you can win a million races, but if people STILL don't like you, it's hard to move product.
Click to expand...

Toyota has done a decent job of swaying opinions on their brand to the casuals, I feel.

It does look somewhat bad what TRD/Gibbs/etc have done lately, but in the grand scheme of things nobody really cares about Barney Vissers team going away or Matt DiBenedetto getting shafted, they just see Toyota winning a lot.

IMO anyway from a Chevy fan..
 
Revman said:
They have never had a shot in hell in the PR war, and you know that. They aren't going after the dislikers. They are lost. They know that. Like all things, NASCAR is changing, and many hate the deeper manufacturer involvement, but $ has made that necessary. Toyota and Ford are on top, and Chevy is lost. Why might that be?
Click to expand...

Chevy doesn't give a **** about NASCAR lately. I hope that changes someway, somehow. I don't have the facts on that, just opinion of course.

It sucks seeing these Toyota's win & dominate, it's hard to get used to seeing Chevy at the back of the manufacturer race.
 
If it wasn't for his great 2nd place finish at Bristol we never would have been able to have this great discussion. Appreciate that Matt.
 
Formerjackman said:
Just like the brand's lead driver, you can win a million races, but if people STILL don't like you, it's hard to move product.
Click to expand...

30% of Toyota buyers cite a connection to NASCAR as influencing their buying decisions. The Kyle Busch is an a**hole who drives for an a**hole manufacturer which either hurts or doesn't impact sales would be a convenient narrative for the dislikers, but unfortunately for them, it just isn't true. Those who hate Toyota because they are a foreign brand (Japanese specifically) are not the target. Those who don't give a **** (and we are led to believe that is many if not most buyers) can be swayed.
 
AuzGrams said:
Chevy doesn't give a sh!t about NASCAR lately. I hope that changes someway, somehow. I don't have the facts on that, just opinion of course.

It sucks seeing these Toyota's win & dominate, it's hard to get used to seeing Chevy at the back of the manufacturer race.
Click to expand...

I don't know that it's that they don't care....they are just very much behind in how a manufacturer operates in NASCAR now. Who could blame them? They rattled off 13 consecutive Manufacturers Titles by simply writing a checks (mostly to Hendrick IMO). They reaped the rewards of success without doing much in a relative sense. Now, they are faced with regaining their dominance in a completely changed NASCAR landscape. Hard sell to the Chevy board really.
 
Wait just a minute, let's see what happens at Road America first. He was leading some laps earlier and stage 2 is just now over. If he wins we'll have another Diburrito appreciation week.
 
10-4 said:
Wait just a minute, let's see what happens at Road America first. He was leading some laps earlier and stage 2 is just now over. If he wins we'll have another Diburrito appreciation week.
Click to expand...
I’m enjoying watching the two of them going at it in the B Main at RA.

Bell’s strategy might work better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom