NASCAR considering radical changes to playoff system

ChexOrWrex said:
So since football uses a playoff bracket system is there sport a cheap reality tv show? There's plenty of cases where the team with the not-best record has won the Super Bowl. That's basically the same situation we are facing in nascar.
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You are comparing two entirely different entities, Nascar is nothing like football and yes sometimes in sports the team without the best record wins the big game. This situation with the new points structure just makes a mockery of a play off format and it truly does remind me of those lame reality shows on tv.
 
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gordonite said:
Also, resetting the points in the final races would be like resetting the score after the third quarter in the Super Bowl to make sure it was a close game.

Would any football fans think that was ok and that no one should complain about it?
I think, no.
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Yep I agree good point.
 
hawg dawg said:
bottom line...... 1st 26 races oughta be better......
no mo early summer ....."good points finish" interviews / races maybe ?

an chase will have real "do or die" meaning .....all 3 elim segments !

homestead will be super !
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It will be a super mess.
 
The new format is escentially designed for Frances "new" fans.......15 to 24 year olds who have the attention span of a flea.....I guess NASCAR could care less about it's long time fans who remember what real racing was about..If France is so concerned about the emphasis being placed on winning......too bad the"NEW" format wasn't in place last year when Junior would have been a NO win champ!
 
In order to let this new system have a chance, we as fans must let go of the old points system, Its tough, people like myself generally fight change. Its been my experience, in 26 years in my profession to accept change, embrace it no matter how tough it seems. This comes from experience.

This new system will have flaws. It will have its own problems, many of which we have pointed out with all the what ifs????? I've been watching Nascar since early 1960's. The original points system , (I liked and still do) got changed, so did the next few tweaks to it.

I will try to accept this new system or at least have a wait and see attitude. If I don't I will not enjoy the racing. No sense in making my sour disposition any worse. My wife already calls me a" cranky old fart".

Just my Opinion here
 
Fun fact of the day: had this new Chase format been in place last year, the champions of the 3 major NASCAR series' would have had exactly one win between the three of them.
 
I'm kinda tired of the fight against this change. Heck, I never came to terms with the first through the fifth formats of the Chase. I don't expect this to be any different.

This whole thing boils down to two changes for me.

One being the requirement of wining a race to qualify for the Chase. I don't have a problem with that. That sounds like a good change to me. No need to explain to me if there are only 15 winners. I'm already aware of the new rules.

The other, and this is a huge one, is there being the winner take all in that final race. That one is really hard for me to swallow. Let that last group run for more than one race for the hardware.

The whole elimination thing three times during the Chase section of the season. That's really no different. Teams are naturally eliminated from contention by their lack of points throughout the history of what we've know as the Chase. Only now, they are going to make it more official by notifying us along the way. Basically dumbing it down for the masses.

Whatever. That's how I feel at this point. It is what it is. I can get pissed off to the point of not watching any more racing but then I'll not be doing what I like to do each week. I'll opt to watch. They're still racing so I'll be there each and every week. Maybe this whole new Chase will grow on me over time. Then again, maybe not. Whatever.
 
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The cream will rise in whatever the format. Be at your best during the playoffs and you'll have a chance to be a champion. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I like that NASCAR isn't afraid to take a big swing at things in an effort to keep the sport relevant. This will also give ESPN some thing big to market during the fall and perhaps upgrade the overall demographic.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm kinda tired of the fight against this change.....
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It's been less than one day and you're already tired of the fight against the new format? lol

I hate the new format, but I'll continue to watch every race like I always have. The new format won't kill the enjoyment of watching the races.
It was hard to accept the original chase format because I didn't like the point reset, but I did. But this multiple point reset is just too much for me. I just can't put much importance on the championship now because IMO it's way too manipulated for affect by nascar.
 
Matthew2470 said:
The cream will rise in whatever the format. Be at your best during the playoffs and you'll have a chance to be a champion. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I like that NASCAR isn't afraid to take a big swing at things in an effort to keep the sport relevant. This will also give ESPN some thing big to market during the fall and perhaps upgrade the overall demographic.
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What if the format IS cream?
 
gordonite said:
It's been less than one day and you're already tired of the fight against the new format? lol

I hate the new format, but I'll continue to watch every race like I always have. The new format won't kill the enjoyment of watching the races.
It was hard to accept the original chase format because I didn't like the point reset, but I did. But this multiple point reset is just too much for me. I just can't put much importance on the championship now because IMO it's way too manipulated for affect by nascar.
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I've been fighting since 2004. Yeah, I'm tired.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Welcome to 2004. ;)
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HAHA.

You know, I do have a question for Brian France. What is he's doing to prevent racing team from trying to "fix" the results like MWR did at Richmond? I mean wouldn't this new format basically encourage non-chase teammates to help out the teammates that got into The Chase by staging "accidents" or wrecking a chaser and making it look like a "racing deal"?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I've been fighting since 2004. Yeah, I'm tired.
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The more I think about this plan, the more I like it. The overly done importance of championship points hasn't produced hard racing in the stock car sense of hard racing.

I just wish nascar had fixed the cars and tires first so they could handle contact without wrecking.
 
SpeedPagan said:
HAHA.

You know, I do have a question for Brian France. What is he's doing to prevent racing team from trying to "fix" the results like MWR did at Richmond? I mean wouldn't this new format basically encourage non-chase teammates to help out the teammates that got into The Chase by staging "accidents" or wrecking a chaser and making it look like a "racing deal"?
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Good point, but I'm more concerned about how they will handle on-track over reactions to racing contact. Nobody wants to see a driver or fan lose their lives because of an intentional act.
 
I could live with it, if it was not down to a single race. To many fluke possibilities, that will distort who is truly the best.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
The whole elimination thing three times during the Chase section of the season. That's really no different. Teams are naturally eliminated from contention by their lack of points throughout the history of what we've know as the Chase. Only now, they are going to make it more official by notifying us along the way. Basically dumbing it down for the masses.
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JJ would've been eliminated after the Challenger round in '06, when he first won the title. Finished 39th, 13th, and 14th in the first three Chase races before finishing 1st or 2nd in five of the last seven.
 
FLRacingFan said:
JJ would've been eliminated after the Challenger round in '06, when he first won the title. Finished 39th, 13th, and 14th in the first three Chase races before finishing 1st or 2nd in five of the last seven.
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Same old stuff really. We used to make all of those arguments with the Chase vs the pre Chase era. You can't compare any two periods of time in my eyes when it comes to this sport. I don't look at any of JJ's 6 Championship's to be equal to any of Richard Petty's or Dale Earnhardt's. It is what it is, not what it would have been under a different format. If that makes any sense.
 
Where are people finding these comparisons showing this system used in other seasons?
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
You're confusing eliminations and resets. A reset is where all the drivers lose all points they have earned up until that point and start from scratch.

Example: The drivers who make it into the chase will have their points wiped clean and be given 2000 points. Then, the drivers who make it to the next segment will have their points wiped clean and be given 3000 points, etc. For the final race of the season, the remaining four drivers will start off with the same number of points.

That's why I'm disgusted with these changes.
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Yeah it's a terrible thing that they HAVE to do good EVERY week lol.... The reset just means that what you did last week doesn't mean anything this week... why should a driver be able to wreck because he won last week and still be in the same spot when two other drivers didn't wreck?

That's all I see in the resets... you HAVE to do good every week.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Same old stuff really. We used to make all of those arguments with the Chase vs the pre Chase era. You can't compare any two periods of time in my eyes when it comes to this sport. I don't look at any of JJ's 6 Championship's to be equal to any of Richard Petty's or Dale Earnhardt's. It is what it is, not what it would have been under a different format. If that makes any sense.
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It wasn't a "they would have raced differently" scenario or anything. He was wrecked in one of those races and ran out of gas in another. What I'm saying is it's entirely possible to have fluke results in one round result in a premature elimination. He was obviously far from out of contention.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Yeah it's a terrible thing that they HAVE to do good EVERY week lol.... The reset just means that what you did last week doesn't mean anything this week... why should a driver be able to wreck because he won last week and still be in the same spot when two other drivers didn't wreck?

That's all I see in the resets... you HAVE to do good every week.
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? I'm not sure if I'm reading you right. If you win the first race in a round you really don't have to show up for the next two races since you're already guaranteed to move on and they don't award bonus points at the next reset for prior Chase wins. Same for the round finale if you win the second race in a round.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It wasn't a "they would have raced differently" scenario or anything. He was wrecked in one of those races and ran out of gas in another. What I'm saying is it's entirely possible to have fluke results in one round result in a premature elimination. He was obviously far from out of contention.
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Every time there is a change in how they determine a champion in this sport we tend to compare the results to what would have been under the old system. For the most part it's always a different outcome. I used to do that same thing with the last five versions of the Chase to the pre-Chase era and finally got it through my thick head that those comparisons don't mean a thing. Everything happened how it happened under the system they were currently running under. Nothing else really matters IMO.

Don't get me wrong I'm anything but pro Chase. I wish the format would have never changed to begin with. They had it right before.
 
STATEMENT BY H.A. HUMPY WHEELER ON NASCAR'S ANNOUNCEMENT

"The new rules on winning will do more to increase racing in NASCAR than 40 lap Saturday night features and it will drastically change the type of driver on this high level. No more 'Hey I had a great points day with my fifth place finish.' That will be replaced by 'I shoulda won but that guy blocked me bad!' Those drivers who can't run full tilt every lap will see their careers shorten and be replaced by guys with heavy foots who may not be well dressed, well spoken or well backed. The new ones will be throwbacks to Junior Johnson, Dale Sr., Cale and Tim Flock … drivers with fearlessness, not afraid of combat and 'get outta my way here I come' attitudes. Mr. 'Nice Well Funded Driver' is history or will be soon.

"NASCAR had to make a number of bold moves to get people back in seats and this is a great one because no fan pays a dime to see a points race. They wanna see drivers taking risks and passing for the lead. That is what racing is all about. Now, if NASCAR can get rid of the aero push and make these cars a little easier to drive then we will see some fantastic racing but those mechanics must be solved also."
 
It will be hilarious if we have a winless champion this year after all of this "greater emphasis on winning" garbage. The 4 drivers with the most wins last year (Kenseth, Johnson, Harvick, Kyle Busch) finished in the top 4 positions in points, so I really don't see where wins have been so meaningless up until now.
 
ToyYoda said:
I really don't see where wins have been so meaningless up until now.
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I agree. nascar wants to see the top 4 cars tied in points when the final race starts at the end of the year....
for maximum excitement.
They don't want to wait for it to possibly happen on it's own so they decide to make it happen every year by altering the point standings.

The problem I have with that is that when the points are altered to make it happen, it takes the excitement out of it for me.
 
Now, no one will care about the first 35 races. There may be some additional mainstream interest in the last round, but will it be worth it after all the other races drop in attendance and ratings for the first 35 races?
 
FLRacingFan said:
? I'm not sure if I'm reading you right. If you win the first race in a round you really don't have to show up for the next two races since you're already guaranteed to move on and they don't award bonus points at the next reset for prior Chase wins. Same for the round finale if you win the second race in a round.
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Only drivers that run the full season are eligible for the cup. Im just saying the points reset means that even if you smoked the other guys the last 3 weeks.. you still have to keep beating them. Under the old system you could win and the other guy have a 10th place run.. then the next week you can run 6th and if he's 3rd you're still ahead... with the reset it means you need to get up to 3rd and pass that guy or ur screwed.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm kinda tired of the fight against this change.
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Same here. They've changed it so many times, I don't have any more cares to give.

There's no fan loyalty to the Chase partly because Brian keeps changing it. If they had kept the same format as it was in 2004, it might have grown on some people by now. When they change it every two years and add a wild card this and that or now this whole new thing, it's hard for anybody to get attached to it. I don't think it'll ever go away under Brian France, but I can't blame fans for thinking it could since he changes the rules on a whim every 2-3 years.
 
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