NASCAR no longer allocating money to non-chartered teams?

Spotter22

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You can do whatever you want to tighten up the field (reduce HP, aero, wave arounds, free pass....) and at the end of the race the gap between 1st and 36th is technically closer than it ever used to be. All I'm saying after all this is the guys that always run in the back of the back will still be in the back of the pack. You've made that guy that was 36th technically closer to the front in now that maybe he's only 30 seconds or one lap down now, but you haven't made him anymore more competitive than he was before. This guys is not all of a sudden going to be knocking down top 10's, he just doesn't doesn't have the speed and resources to run in the top 10.

If you used to be 1 second off the pace of the top 20 cars and through rule changes you're now only a couple 10ths off the pace of the top 20 you're still slower than them. Last time I checked you usually don't get in front of someone by driving slower than them.
I'll make it simple, a coupe tenths is easier to find then 9, and a lot less expensive.
 

Snappy D

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News headline: "NASCAR denies Michael Jordan, the sports only minority car owner additional charters". That's the headline that WON'T be be happening
Just popped in to read this thread and I see it’s gotten...well entertaining for me. From my understanding of the point you’re trying to make is well...My question is you’re assuming that NASCAR is just going to give someone like MJ a charter (if your premise holds true that 23XI want to expand)or make someone sell so the MJ team can expand, I guess my question is has there been past instances of this ever happening since the charters have been instituted? I can’t recall and I am not being cheeky but It seems the people that have wanted to get out have gotten out just fine by selling and those charters were bought pretty quickly. I don’t think NASCAR would do anything honestly if MJ wanted to get another charter, I think quite simply the XI team would just buy one. I’m sure RWR has one they’d want to sell if His Airness came calling, that’s an assumption of course on my part but more believable than NASCAR forcing someone to sell, bending rules (which rules have to be bent, I don’t know but that’s a whole different post. Just seems tinfoil hat conspiracy theory to me personally) or moving mountains as you so called it.
 
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Team Penske

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Yes ... a charter that has been in the bottom 3 among charter teams for three consecutive years can be revoked. After this season, I believe the 51 has been among the three worst for two consecutive years. So that could be something to watch in 2021.
Time to let that number out to 25-30 place car for a year.
 

AuzGrams

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Gaunt wound up 31st last year but I'll grant you that one. But Kaulig a '25-30 place car' right out of the gate? "Surely you can't be serious!" Still, I'd rather see them get a shot than another RW(sb)R chicane.
I would be shocked if Kaulig isn’t a 25th-30th place team. I’d bet money on it.

They’re getting RCR support as is. I don’t see how a team that is usually top 5 to top 7 in Xfinity in points wouldn’t be competitive.
 
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StandOnIt

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Yeah I don't think it is wise to bet against Kaulig. They came from nothing to where they are in a short time. They haven't made many mistakes. A lot of these backmarker teams are running 2 or more cars and they are underfunded, when they could run one car with decent funding like Kaulig will be doing.
 

AuzGrams

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Yeah I don't think it is wise to bet against Kaulig. They came from nothing to where they are in a short time. They haven't made many mistakes. A lot of these backmarker teams are running 2 or more cars and they are underfunded, when they could run one car with decent funding like Kaulig will be doing.

Yeah Ware in particular could do some good running like that but they don’t care. Seems like Rick is in the business of making money off the system than being competitive.
 

AuzGrams

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On one hand I like seeing 36 stable teams, on the other I liked seeing the 62 Beard car, Gaunt 96, and Kaulig most likely in 2021 be able to make open purse money.

I wish they’d pool some more money into the ARCA National/West/East purses for better driver development.
 

StandOnIt

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Yeah Ware in particular could do some good running like that but they don’t care. Seems like Rick is in the business of making money off the system than being competitive.
good reason for the new rule IMO. Like the start and parks, the charter system is getting gamed.
 

Team Penske

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At the end of this sponsorship ( Fox/NBC ) it won't matter. I think cars will be back racing for a part of the purse as was done in the 60's. I also think Drivers
salaries will shrink a lot more.
 

Formerjackman

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I haven't been able to independently confirm this, so don't shoot the messenger, but I have a friend who follows this stuff very closely, and out of the blue today he told me that he just read that NASCAR reserves the right to issue more charters if it helps bring in a new manufacturer. If true, that means NASCAR isn't as worried about diluting the value of the charters as much as some here might think.......
 

wi_racefan

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I haven't been able to independently confirm this, so don't shoot the messenger, but I have a friend who follows this stuff very closely, and out of the blue today he told me that he just read that NASCAR reserves the right to issue more charters if it helps bring in a new manufacturer. If true, that means NASCAR isn't as worried about diluting the value of the charters as much as some here might think.......
All that means is what we already knew. For the right price they can change any rule.....

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

StandOnIt

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Who thinks that a new manufacturer wanting to get into the sport and Nascar says no problem but we don't have any charters available and we don't care if you have the money to buy a couple makes any sense?
 

Charlie Spencer

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Who thinks that a new manufacturer wanting to get into the sport ...
Let's just get to that point first, then we can discuss how they'll make the race.

If I were a new manufacturer, I'd be more interested in converting an existing chartered team to my brand than starting from scratch.
 

Team Penske

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Let's just get to that point first, then we can discuss how they'll make the race.

If I were a new manufacturer, I'd be more interested in converting an existing chartered team to my brand than starting from scratch.
Is Tony available for another manufacturer?
 

Formerjackman

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Let's just get to that point first, then we can discuss how they'll make the race.

If I were a new manufacturer, I'd be more interested in converting an existing chartered team to my brand than starting from scratch.
I likely would too, but what if nobody you would want is available? Remember all that pointless Dodge talk from a couple of years ago? One of the points we all quickly came to was that that the ONLY team that "MIGHT" be available that could actually handle bringing a new manufacturer to Cup was RCR?
 

Formerjackman

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All that means is what we already knew. For the right price they can change any rule.....

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I'll be a LITTLE less cynical and say that to meet their "objectives", they can change any rule.
 

StandOnIt

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Let's just get to that point first, then we can discuss how they'll make the race.

If I were a new manufacturer, I'd be more interested in converting an existing chartered team to my brand than starting from scratch.
Not so sure about that with the next gen car. Not knowing how many parts come from outside vendors it's hard to tell if it would be better to buy somebody's used obsolete equipment or start out new.
 

Formerjackman

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Who thinks that a new manufacturer wanting to get into the sport and Nascar says no problem but we don't have any charters available and we don't care if you have the money to buy a couple makes any sense?
The question is not really whether the scenario makes any actual sense, it is whether NASCAR would leave themselves such a window and why, if their motives and integrity are as pure as some want us to believe.
 

StandOnIt

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The question is not really whether the scenario makes any actual sense, it is whether NASCAR would leave themselves such a window and why, if their motives and integrity are as pure as some want us to believe.
doesn't have anything to do with integrity. Show me where Nascar said that there will only be a fixed number of charters or that the field would only be so many cars forever.?
 

Formerjackman

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Not so sure about that with the next gen car. Not knowing how many parts come from outside vendors it's hard to tell if it would be better to buy somebody's used obsolete equipment or start out new.
I think what you would be buying is people and and an organization behind them who have already been working together and are ready to get down to work on day one much more than hardware. ANYBODY can buy parts and pieces.
 

Formerjackman

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doesn't have anything to do with integrity. Show me where Nascar said that there will only be a fixed number of charters or that the field would only be so many cars forever.?
OK, guys, parallel universe here. Last week, when I suggested that NASCAR might expand the numbers of charters I was savaged for it. Now you are agreeing with me?????
 

StandOnIt

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OK, guys, parallel universe here. Last week, when I suggested that NASCAR might expand the numbers of charters I was savaged for it. Now you are agreeing with me?????
well poor you. I don't read most of your posts after the third change of subject so I missed that if it actually happened :idunno:
 

StandOnIt

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I think what you would be buying is people and and an organization behind them who have already been working together and are ready to get down to work on day one much more than hardware. ANYBODY can buy parts and pieces.
Oh I think a manufacturer would have a deal to buy a charter(s) from somewhere. And that is what we are talking about here. Again not knowing how many parts will come from outside vendors plays a role on how many people it takes to form a racing team. The days of three hundred, four hundred workers on a team are in the past.
 

aunty dive

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Manufacturers are turning away from racing series employing ICE powered cars, not starting up in NASCAR. If the RTA agreed to additional charters for a new manufacturer I’d be surprised, but it’s possible.

Maintaining the current size of NASCAR’s $$ pie is quite an undertaking given the current economic and public health conditions. Making it larger seems unlikely, at least in the near future. So ... 3 new charters for Mikey and / or 4 for Range Rover means somebody’s piece of pie will be smaller?

Whose? Track owners? NASCAR’s? RTA members? Right now, a charter earns a single car 2 to 3 million for showing up every week, plus prize money. I wonder how the owners of the 36 charters would feel about that number being made smaller? Beyond that, printing charters devalues them all. These people aren’t stupid.
 

StandOnIt

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Manufacturers are turning away from racing series employing ICE powered cars, not starting up in NASCAR. If the RTA agreed to additional charters for a new manufacturer I’d be surprised, but it’s possible.

Maintaining the current size of NASCAR’s $$ pie is quite an undertaking given the current economic and public health conditions. Making it larger seems unlikely, at least in the near future. So ... 3 new charters for Mikey and / or 4 for Range Rover means somebody’s piece of pie will be smaller?

Whose? Track owners? NASCAR’s? RTA members? Right now, a charter earns a single car 2 to 3 million for showing up every week, plus prize money. I wonder how the owners of the 36 charters would feel about that number being made smaller? Beyond that, printing charters devalues them all. These people aren’t stupid.
what would be stupid is if another manufacturer was wanting to get into the sport who had the money to buy charters and deny them the chance of doing so.
 
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