NFL 2017-2018

Blaze88 said:
I mean, Brady also has a great team around him as well. Probably a few other QBs who could do the same thing if they had the same people around him, maybe better. As much as I hate saying this because I'm a Falcons fan. But Drew Brees could do just as good with the weapons New England has.
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No....many of the teams Brady has had success with have been a bunch of over achiever no names. Brees is good, but no Brady.
 
Blaze88 said:
I mean, Brady also has a great team around him as well. Probably a few other QBs who could do the same thing if they had the same people around him, maybe better. As much as I hate saying this because I'm a Falcons fan. But Drew Brees could do just as good with the weapons New England has.
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I think Pittsburgh has more weapons on offense than the Patriots. Brady could take Cleveland to the playoffs. Everyone likes to downplay his greatness by saying he's got this almighty offense around him.
 
Mopardh9 said:
No....many of the teams Brady has had success with have been a bunch of over achiever no names. Breese is good, but no Brady.
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Brady's also has had a lot of good people around him. I mean he's great, I'm not going to deny it. One of the best. But look at what Brees has done with pretty much no one good around him his whole career.
AndyMarquisLive said:
I think Pittsburgh has more weapons on offense than the Patriots. Brady could take Cleveland to the playoffs. Everyone likes to downplay his greatness by saying he's got this almighty offense around him.
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LMAO it takes more than a good QB to help a team but okay.
 
Blaze88 said:
Brady's also has had a lot of good people around him. I mean he's great, I'm not going to deny it. One of the best. But look at what Brees has done with pretty much no one good around him his whole career.

LMAO it takes more than a good QB to help a team but okay.
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Some teams get by with only having a quarterback. Indianapolis went from a playoff team to the worst team in the NFL one year because Manning got hurt. Look what happened to Green Bay.

And some teams are doing it without a quarterback, see Jacksonville (although Bortles is managing to win games).

New England has a solid defense. But offense, let's quit pretending Brady's surrounded by a Pro Bowl Hall of Fame cast of receivers. He's not. Aside from Gronk, Brady's doing it with a pretty average team.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Some teams get by with only having a quarterback. Indianapolis went from a playoff team to the worst team in the NFL one year because Manning got hurt. Look what happened to Green Bay.

And some teams are doing it without a quarterback, see Jacksonville (although Bortles is managing to win games).

New England has a solid defense. But offense, let's quit pretending Brady's surrounded by a Pro Bowl Hall of Fame cast of receivers. He's not. Aside from Gronk, Brady's doing it with a pretty average team.
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That's why they went what...3-1 during Brady's suspension??
 
Blaze88 said:
That's why they went what...3-1 during Brady's suspension??
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Beating Arizona, Miami and Houston. Two teams that lucked their way into the playoffs that year and a third that was nowhere near as good as it had been the previous year.

And again, New England's DEFENSE is extremely underrated.

Also wasn't Jimmy Garoppolo quarterback those games? It's not like he's some slouch. Average QB and the result isn't the same.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Beating Arizona, Miami and Houston. Two teams that lucked their way into the playoffs that year and a third that was nowhere near as good as it had been the previous year.

And again, New England's DEFENSE is extremely underrated.
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Not really but okay. Again put a few other select QBs into Brady's spot and they would do just as good.
 
Man, Tom Brady is so underrated. When you talk about his winning record and stuff, people just go "but his receivers".

I don't understand why people just can't accept that he's, if not the GOAT, one of the best quarterbacks in history.
 
Update: Brady was present at start of practice, but did not participate. Did not give a press conference after either. He'll play sunday, Bill is up to his usual tricks, this way The Jags will have to prepare a game plan for both QBs in case Brady doesn't play.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Man, Tom Brady is so underrated. When you talk about his winning record and stuff, people just go "but his receivers".

I don't understand why people just can't accept that he's, if not the GOAT, one of the best quarterbacks in history.
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I accepted he's one of the best, just not the best.

Only thing he has that a lot of other QBs have is the 5 rings, but a lot of them hold records that he doesn't, and some of them it's impossible for him to even get now. So if we went just by rings, sure he's the best. But I think it's only fair to go by records, rings, everything to see who's the best.
 
Blaze88 said:
I accepted he's one of the best, just not the best.

Only thing he has that a lot of other QBs have is the 5 rings, but a lot of them hold records that he doesn't, and some of them it's impossible for him to even get now. So if we went just by rings, sure he's the best. But I think it's only fair to go by records, rings, everything to see who's the best.
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I only need to reference one game.

Tom Brady led his team from a 28-3 deficit in the Super Bowl to a 34-28 victory. That's stuff GOATs do.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Well, I guess we'll find out in the Super Bow........... oh wait......
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Even if the Falcons were still in, the offense is nowhere near the same as it was last year. A lot of stuff happened, losing Shanahan didn't help us at all. Sarkisian had NO idea what he was doing, but then again....Shanahan didn't either in his first season as OC. So we'll see what Sark can do next season with that offense.
 
Blaze88 said:
I accepted he's one of the best, just not the best.

Only thing he has that a lot of other QBs have is the 5 rings, but a lot of them hold records that he doesn't, and some of them it's impossible for him to even get now. So if we went just by rings, sure he's the best. But I think it's only fair to go by records, rings, everything to see who's the best.
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Do the others hold the amount of gut wrenching come backs he has? 5 rings 2 and soon to be 3 MVPs, 3 Superbowl MVPs. ..come man he's the greatest...EVER.
 
If Jacksonville wins, I could see Tom Brady's haters trying to convince everyone Blake Bortles is the better quarterback (which he's not). :XXROFL:

I must be one of very few people who actually respect Tom Brady.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
If Jacksonville wins, I could see Tom Brady's haters trying to convince everyone Blake Bortles is the better quarterback (which he's not). :XXROFL:

I must be one of very few people who actually respect Tom Brady.
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I have to give you props if you are genuine on this, I just heard that Brady might have a more serious injury than reported. So tomorrow we'll see if he practices, if not he probably won't play.
 
Been reading the last few pages. Been a Patriots fan since Drew Bledsoe. Living in Nova Scotia the Pats have always been the "local team.

Brady is without a doubt the greatest quarterback of all time....but I'll take it further.
Tom Brady is the greatest football player of all time.....and when compared to athletes from other team sports the only person who is on the saner level or can be possibly rated higher is Michael Jordan.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I have to give you props if you are genuine on this, I just heard that Brady might have a more serious injury than reported. So tomorrow we'll see if he practices, if not he probably won't play.
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I am genuine. And it sucks if he doesn't play. If Jacksonville wins, I'll have to hear all year that they only did so because Tom Brady didn't start. :rolleyes:
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
If Jacksonville wins, I could see Tom Brady's haters trying to convince everyone Blake Bortles is the better quarterback (which he's not). :XXROFL:

I must be one of very few people who actually respect Tom Brady.
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You must be joking. First of all, nobody in the world would ever say Bortles is better than Brady. Not a single person. Even if Bortles throws for 700 yards and 8 touchdowns and the Jags win 63-0. Second, I'm not sure what world you're living in, but Brady is universally seen as the greatest QB of all time by virtually everyone. Whenever I say that Brady is overrated (because he is) I get torn to shreds.
 
I mentioned much earlier in this thread why I think Brady is overrated. Usually when a team has a great QB and they lose him due to injury or retirement or whatever, it's a disaster. Look at the Colts when Peyton got hurt, the 49ers when Young got hurt, the Broncos after Elway, etc.

For the record......

2008 Patriots went 11-5
Matt Cassel was QB. His stats.....
63.4 cmp%, 3693 pass yds, 21 TD, 11 INT, 89.4 QB rating, 270 rush yds, 2 TD

2009 Patriots went 10-6
Tom Brady was QB. His stats.....
65.7 cmp%, 4398 pass yds, 28 TD, 13 INT, 96.2 QB rating, 9 rush yds

When Brady got hurt in the first game of '08 and missed the rest of the season, he was replaced by a guy who had not started a game of football since high school. And yet, Cassel played really well and the team didn't miss a beat. He put up respectable numbers that weren't too far off of what Brady would do the following season. Maybe Cassel was just a diamond in the rough? Think again. Here's what he did the rest of his career.....

KC: 57 cmp%, 59 TD, 44 INT, 77.5 QB rating
MIN: 59 cmp%, 14 TD, 13 INT, 78.1 QB rating
DAL: 58 cmp%, 5 TD, 7 INT, 70.6 QB rating
TEN: 59 cmp%, 3 TD, 4 INT, 64.2 QB rating

So tell me.......how can you take a guy with zero experience, a guy that ended up being a below average journeyman QB, and throw him out there and the guy instantly plays almost as good as "the best QB ever" Tom Brady? Back to back years, same team, same supporting cast, and virtually the same results. How does that happen? Because the Pats are the best team with the best coaches and the best offensive system. They can take a bad QB (Cassel) and make him look really good, and a great QB (Brady) and make him look like the greatest.

Still think I'm crazy? Look at the advanced statistics. Look at how much time Brady has to throw compared to the rest of the league....it's ridiculous. Then go look at Tom Brady's numbers when pressured. That's the difference between Brady and other greats like Montana, Elway, Marino, Manning, Favre, etc.......they weren't super mobile but they could still make plays happen when the pocket breaks down, whereas Brady folds like a wet napkin every single time.

Is Brady a great QB? Of course. Greatest QB ever? No way. It's a team game, folks. He just happens to be one of the greatest players who spent his entire career with one of the best teams and THE BEST head coach in NFL history. No other QB in the history of football has been put in such a perfect situation.
 
2 Sweet said:
I mentioned much earlier in this thread why I think Brady is overrated. Usually when a team has a great QB and they lose him due to injury or retirement or whatever, it's a disaster. Look at the Colts when Peyton got hurt, the 49ers when Young got hurt, the Broncos after Elway, etc.

For the record......

2008 Patriots went 11-5
Matt Cassel was QB. His stats.....
63.4 cmp%, 3693 pass yds, 21 TD, 11 INT, 89.4 QB rating, 270 rush yds, 2 TD

2009 Patriots went 10-6
Tom Brady was QB. His stats.....
65.7 cmp%, 4398 pass yds, 28 TD, 13 INT, 96.2 QB rating, 9 rush yds

When Brady got hurt in the first game of '08 and missed the rest of the season, he was replaced by a guy who had not started a game of football since high school. And yet, Cassel played really well and the team didn't miss a beat. He put up respectable numbers that weren't too far off of what Brady would do the following season. Maybe Cassel was just a diamond in the rough? Think again. Here's what he did the rest of his career.....

KC: 57 cmp%, 59 TD, 44 INT, 77.5 QB rating
MIN: 59 cmp%, 14 TD, 13 INT, 78.1 QB rating
DAL: 58 cmp%, 5 TD, 7 INT, 70.6 QB rating
TEN: 59 cmp%, 3 TD, 4 INT, 64.2 QB rating

So tell me.......how can you take a guy with zero experience, a guy that ended up being a below average journeyman QB, and throw him out there and the guy instantly plays almost as good as "the best QB ever" Tom Brady? Back to back years, same team, same supporting cast, and virtually the same results. How does that happen? Because the Pats are the best team with the best coaches and the best offensive system. They can take a bad QB (Cassel) and make him look really good, and a great QB (Brady) and make him look like the greatest.

Still think I'm crazy? Look at the advanced statistics. Look at how much time Brady has to throw compared to the rest of the league....it's ridiculous. Then go look at Tom Brady's numbers when pressured. That's the difference between Brady and other greats like Montana, Elway, Marino, Manning, Favre, etc.......they weren't super mobile but they could still make plays happen when the pocket breaks down, whereas Brady folds like a wet napkin every single time.

Is Brady a great QB? Of course. Greatest QB ever? No way. It's a team game, folks. He just happens to be one of the greatest players who spent his entire career with one of the best teams and THE BEST head coach in NFL history. No other QB in the history of football has been put in such a perfect situation.
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You are delusional , put Brady up against Montana any day Brady wins. Cassel had Bill, that's why they went 11-6, get your head out of your ass on this.
 
Montana had Jerry Rice.

Brady had Randy Moss for 1.5 seasons. No offense to all the other wide receivers over the years. Moss was the only one that's goin to the HOF.

Montana got 4 rings.

Brady's has 5.

Montana got the 49ers to 4 Super Bowls.

Brady got he Patriots to 7.

Brady's the GOAT
 
2 Sweet said:
How so?



How so?



So did Brady, he's had Bill his whole career, that's basically my point



Sorry I make too much sense :idunno:
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No you make none, Montana had a goid coach too, but the Patriots as a consistent winning organization are way better than any in history. For almost 20 years they have been in play for the Super Bowl. That comes down to the most important player on the team, the QB...the GOAT.
 
Johnny G said:
Montana had Jerry Rice.

Brady had Randy Moss for 1.5 seasons. No offense to all the other wide receivers over the years. Moss was the only one that's goin to the HOF.

Montana got 4 rings.

Brady's has 5.

Montana got the 49ers to 4 Super Bowls.

Brady got he Patriots to 7.

Brady's the GOAT
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To me it's a no brainer. Montana literally played with the best WR of all time. Last year, Brady orchestrates the best Super Bowl win of all time without Gronk. GOAT.
 
Michfan said:
To me it's a no brainer. Montana literally played with the best WR of all time. Last year, Brady orchestrates the best Super Bowl win of all time without Gronk. GOAT.
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Brady has some good receivers, but when one goes down, like The Jet, a over achiever steps up. Look what James White did in the Superbowl last year. This comes down to a great coach, a grear owner, and the best QB of certainly my generation and IMO...ever.
 
Rick said:
2 Sweet puts up a nice argument and you call him delusionalo_O
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I still think Brady is the GOAT QB, but 2 Sweet does raise some interesting points. Being in the Patriots organization has definitely helped Brady, if he'd been drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals instead of the New England Patriots, we might not be having this conversation.
 
So we're going to give that amazing catch in the Super Bowl last year to Brady? Even tho he wasn't the one who caught it? Alright sounds legit. I mean the QB gets blamed when a receiver can't catch a pretty much easy as hell catch, guess the QB can also get credit when a receiver goes above and beyond and catches a one in a million catch.
 
I thought that the Steelers, Falcons, Saints and Pats would win last week. Good thing I didn't quit my daytime job.
 
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