Nos. 9, 48 penalized for engine allocation violations after New Hampshire

Okay. That was beautiful. <Wipes tears> Winners know what engine goes where, and how to keep track of time...but I don't want to interrupt your flow.
*looks over at 2020 Championship trophy* Yep. Man, I wish HMS would get their collective heads out of their asses. :XXROFL:
 
Dogs don't care.
Maybe but what if they are barking at nothing?
Or does it mean they see a ghost or UFOian's that we can't see?
What if the Dog knows that the ghost saw the clerical error and they have the perfect explanation, and we just aren't listening.
What if no one ever listened to Lassie and everybody in the movie died?

Lassie was actually played by a cross dressing male dog in the movie. I am just thankful that cast was open minded and still respected Lassies credibility.
The next clerical error might kill somebody, I think we need to listen to the Lassie's when they try to warn us.
 
Apples to oranges. It was one rod, and heads rolled at TRD over that. You absolutely know that any explanation I would give about the engine rule would be out of my ass, so how about I ask you--who knows 10 times what I know about this sport--Why do you think it is a rule in the first place? If you aren't clear, I would be 10 million miles from being clear. Yet, it is a rule.

My point about the connecting rod is that putting one or two rods that were very slightly under weight into an engine has ZERO performance advantage. The ONLY explanation for it is that somebody flat out goofed up, it happens. They are lucky it wasn't enough difference to throw the engine out of balance and blow it up.

The reason for the engine rule that Hendrick broke was so you couldn't build a killer engine that was made only to last say 510 miles, then you take it out of the winning car and put in some backmarker car and so what if it blows up after 10 laps? Well guess what? They didn't put it in some car that doesn't matter, they put it in a car that is every bit in the thick of the championship as the car it came out of, AND it ran the whole race, which would suggest there was nothing trick about it in the first place. Like I said, if you are going to suggest that HMS did this on purpose, then you have to be able to explain what they were trying to accomplish. I think you have basically admitted you can't do that.

As I alluded to earlier, frankly I'm sick and tired of HMS shooting themselves in the foot SO OFTEN, and I think besides having all of these competition people, they a few quality control guys with no responsibility other than to prevent stupid stuff like this happening. Regardless of the sport, I DESPISE the unforced error. Make the competition beat you, don't do it for them.
 
I think you have basically admitted you can't do that.
I said I wouldn't do that. Your explanation makes sense, but I would love to hear from NASCAR on this. Do you have a link?

The HMS narrative is that they are the class of the field, and Mr. H is The Man. That is, until, they screw up, and now it's the "they are human" and "clerical error" narrative. Why would NASCAR have a L1 for a clerical error?

Was the Bondo and wind tunnel thin unforced as well? I don't mind pushing the limits of the rules, but I detest the "ooops" narrative. These guys tunes cars to minuscule tolerances, but they can't figure out where to put a whole ****** engine?

I hope those poor goofballs at Hendrick figure out how to run their team... I mean they are destroying everybody in Manufacturer Points, and all of their drivers are in the Playoffs, but imagine how good they could be if they weren't so amateur.
 
It's funny that revman thinks there are teams in nascar that don't cheat. Can he really be that gullible or does his blind love of Toyota just blind him?
New guy. Wants friends. Apply here.
 
Around the Pocono weekend, rumor was NASCAR basically told HMS that they didn't like their noses and to not bring them again. It was on DBC among other sources.
Claire B. Lang confirmed.....before Pocono.
 
I said I wouldn't do that. Your explanation makes sense, but I would love to hear from NASCAR on this. Do you have a link?

The HMS narrative is that they are the class of the field, and Mr. H is The Man. That is, until, they screw up, and now it's the "they are human" and "clerical error" narrative. Why would NASCAR have a L1 for a clerical error?

Was the Bondo and wind tunnel thin unforced as well? I don't mind pushing the limits of the rules, but I detest the "ooops" narrative. These guys tunes cars to minuscule tolerances, but they can't figure out where to put a whole ****** engine?

I hope those poor goofballs at Hendrick figure out how to run their team... I mean they are destroying everybody in Manufacturer Points, and all of their drivers are in the Playoffs, but imagine how good they could be if they weren't so amateur.


I would love to hear from NASCAR on a LOT of things, but that is not their style. About the only time you get the REAL inside story from them is it makes them look good, or they are shamed into providing the information.

More often than not HMS HAS been the class of the field for the last twenty-five years, but they are are coming off a pretty long stretch where they haven't been, despite all the early success, the jury is still out on this year. As for Mr. H being "the man", I'm pretty sure he would chuckle at that description of him, but you will have a hard time finding anybody actually associated with NASCAR that would disagree.

Yes, HMS cheats like every other NASCAR team there ever has been or ever will be, and yes, they make mistakes like every team there ever has been or will be.

NASCAR's rules and penalties are normally based on results, not intent. The wrong engine was in the wrong car, simple as that. WHY it was there is really not their concern.

I know very little about the Bondo thing or even whether it is true. Once again, don't wait for NASCAR to tell you anything. I guess if Claire B. said it, it MUST be true, and I don't have any reason to believe it isn't, then they were obviously tying to push the limits. I'm not making any excuses for that, and I haven't heard HMS or anybody else with a brain make excuses for it.

I really have no thoughts on the wind tunnel issue. THEY reported the violation, so that leaves you with two choices: 1) They did it on purpose, but knew they were going to get caught so they fessed up. 2) They screwed up. Once again, I haven't made an excuse for that, and I haven't heard them make an excuse for that. HMS has a LONG history of fighting penalties tooth and nail when they think they were unfairly issued, and quietly accepting them when they are, so you'll have to draw your own conclusions. Maybe they felt that the penalty was worth whatever information they gained, I don't know.

Remember that there are dozens of these engines floating around the HMS campus at any one time, and there aren't any big signs on them that say which car they belong to. Even the sealed engines get pulled out of the car, sent down the hill to the engine shop, checked over, have valve springs replaced, tested for proper performance then sent back up the hill to the car shops. It wouldn't be that out of the question for someone to mix something up or grab the wrong engine. It's an embarrassing thing to have happen, but so is what happened to Larson at Talladega. How about last year when Hamlins's weight block fell out? Having done that job, it's hard for me to fathom how somebody left the cover off or left it loose that let the weight fall out, but a paid professional race car mechanic, probably 100 times more talented than I ever was did it. I witnessed Jeff Gordon have his Brickyard 400 ruined on lap 4 because the sway bar link fell off because somebody left a bolt out. (Another job I have done). I've seen cars START the race with loose lugnuts, an as inexcusable thing as possibly can happen to a race car, but it seems like once a year or so SOMEBODY does it.

As long as you (or anyone else) can't (or won't) come up with a reason for this to happen on purpose, then what other option IS there than a mistake was made?
 
Sheesh it really gets bad when there is no race.
Revman loves all things Toyota, is that criminal?
Not answering your questions is his entertainment. :cool:
 
I will defer my answer to NASCAR, and stick with the L1 penalties are not for clerical errors IMO.

Now, before you ask, I think that Toyota, Chevy, and Ford all operate within the same ethical frame.

We all good now?
 
All the personal attacks against the car owners and fans make me sad and I believe in keeping things positive.

That's why I try to avoid stuff like mentioning that Adolph Hitler was a big fan of Ford, and he admired Henry Ford so much.
I don't think Ford would have wanted the Holocaust he just inspired Hitler and published good material for the Hitler youth and so forth. Mein Ford

Can't we just get along?
 
I think it was the gassing of the beautiful blonde, blue-eyed, two year old little girls that threw people off.

Naturally, I could be wrong.
 
I’m aware of all of that and yes, you are correct ... this is not the right forum for it.

If I offended anyone, I’m sorry.
 
I will defer my answer to NASCAR, and stick with the L1 penalties are not for clerical errors IMO.

I'm sorry, your humble opinion is wrong in this case. The rule, as nearly ALL NASCAR rules do does not address intent, only actions. I don't recall "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that" ever working as a reason to overturn a penalty. My guess is that if NASCAR could have found some nefarious intent in this violation, the penalty would have been even MORE severe. I'm actually somewhat surprised the #48 didn't get DNQ'd.
 
All the personal attacks against the car owners and fans make me sad and I believe in keeping things positive.

That's why I try to avoid stuff like mentioning that Adolph Hitler was a big fan of Ford, and he admired Henry Ford so much.
I don't think Ford would have wanted the Holocaust he just inspired Hitler and published good material for the Hitler youth and so forth. Mein Ford

Can't we just get along?

Since this is really not the place to discuss such sensitive topics, I would recommend that ANYONE with an interest in the Ford family, Ford Motor or the automobile business in general should most certainly read "Ford, The Men and the Machine. An utterly fascinating book that covers from Henry I's birth in 1863 through about 1987. The book goes into serious detail about Henry's anti-Semitic views, their origins and the results of it. If you want to have a good understanding of this particular topic, this book is a great place to dive in.
 
Well, a couple of things....First, I think the severity of the consequence suggests that NASCAR doesn't care what the intent was, but that the infraction could provide some sort of an advantage. What that advantage might be is for NASCAR to explain....but they won't I suppose. Additionally, the very infraction you mentioned about Toyota (rod weight) carried a very small penalty after appeals--so intent mattered there.
 
The potential advantage has been explained here repeatedly. Configure the engine for performance over longevity; run it once for a great finish; dump it on a satellite team and let them have it blow up on lap 5.
The Junior Johnson/D.W. theory, she done blowed up, added with the Vortex theory. D.W. was a great innovator in the sport, digger, boogidy boogidy = engine rule
 
Darrell was quite correct to point out that just because the engine failed, doesn't mean NASCAR couldn't determine its legality or not. It's not like the engine was reduced to a bucket of unidentifiable parts.
 
The potential advantage has been explained here repeatedly. Configure the engine for performance over longevity; run it once for a great finish; dump it on a satellite team and let them have it blow up on lap 5.
Here is not NASCAR....necessarily....and repeatedly.
 
Here is not NASCAR....necessarily....and repeatedly.
There are expenses, and then there is stupid money. I think the yotas with only 4 cars were feeling the pinch as were the other independent owners building motors to run only one race. Sooner or later insanity turns to sanity when it turns to stupid money. But sending somebody who knows nothing about the rules to go get a motor and put it in the 48 car makes sense from this end. The guy who gave the order got the fine for not checking (who should know the rule)
 
But sending somebody who knows nothing about the rules to go get a motor and put it in the 48 car makes sense from this end.
You think that's how Hendrick works? I have more respect for the organization than that.
 
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