Not a hate crime....

Formerjackman said:
Where was the evidence that this was done with ANY malicious intent, or that it was directed at ANY particular person? This was NOTHING but a classic case of ASSUMING something, with ZERO context to back it up and we all KNOW where assuming gets you. I ASSUMED NASCAR had a case. Boy do I feel foolish for putting even the slightest amount of trust in what they said. To hear Phelps tell the story, I thought somebody had hung it from the ceiling over the #43 car, or that it had a Bubba bobble head or some other Bubba SPECIFIC item in the loop of the rope. To qoute a movie thats name escapes me right now, "If that's all you got, you got nothing!"
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Looks like you overreacted. Some of us were saying that the FBI would figure it out..and dammed if they didn't do just that from what they say, the FBI came to Nascar. But that hasn't stopped the would a's and could a's from coming out of the woodwork.
 
For some reason to me the loop looks different than it did last year. Maybe the one from last year is just a crappy quality.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
In no profession can such a monumental mistake be made on a global scale and the employee(s) responsible still keep their role. The buck stops at the top.
Click to expand...
I still do not agree in this case.

A mistake, heck yes it was. What else could have NASCAR done in this case? The original statement was literally one word short of having absolutely no issues. No where did the communications department used the term "alleged" in this case. The FBI concluded that it is a noose, although not a functioning noose, its still by definition a noose. The hate crime deal, I get it was a bit extreme, but it goes to show even the president acted off of emotion. It happens, but at the end of the day the best result occurred. No one in NASCAR lost their jobs, no one was in danger, and even with a bit of egg on the faces of individuals at the top rung of NASCAR they did their jobs. Fine, they can deal with that and how swiftly this was done was my biggest positives. No one dragged their feet, they got in did the investigation and moved on.

Phelps literally is being 100% accountable for his own actions, being in contact with Bubba through the process, and being up-front is EXACTLY what this sport needs. You may think he should resign, but that would be a major loss. He actually gives a damn about his drivers, I wish I could say that for other representatives at the top of organizations. We are quick to say not be irrational, but Phelps should be here to stay even due to a blunder like this. This man is a competent leader, I can take a miss on judgement, but this man actually knows what the heck he's doing in terms of actual leadership.

For him to have to step down or forcefully stepping down himself? Nah, even with a multi-million dollar corporation that is in the process of making a lot of changes in all avenues. If anything, I feel as if everyone should be encouraged about this.
 
In these situations, does the FBI insert themselves into the investigation or did NASCAR ask for them to investigate? I fully expected the headline to be "NASCAR official fired after putting noose in #43 garage," regardless of what they found, especially if they found it to be false. With the FBI investigation, they couldn't hide the truth.
 
Conover said:
IMO, it's time to get focused on racing. I suspect they will welcome Pocono as a way to do that (Phelps, Bubba and everyone).
Click to expand...

It's time for Nascar to just put the shovel down and try to move on from this...............
 
Brentford said:
In these situations, does the FBI insert themselves into the investigation or did NASCAR ask for them to investigate? I fully expected the headline to be "NASCAR official fired after putting noose in #43 garage," regardless of what they found, especially if they found it to be false. With the FBI investigation, they couldn't hide the truth.
Click to expand...
INVESTIGATION TIMELINE
Sunday, June 21
~ 4:30 p.m.: NASCAR alerted to the presence of the noose by member of No. 43 team. NASCAR security performs full sweep of the garage. Only the pull rope of the 43 team was discovered to be a noose; all the others were regular ropes.
~ 6 p.m.: NASCAR senior leadership meets, determines need for investigation and begins initial steps of the investigation.
~ 7:30 p.m.: NASCAR President Steve Phelps notifies Bubba Wallace of noose discovered in garage.
~ 10:40 p.m.: NASCAR releases statement after continuing to gather facts and further investigation.
Monday, June 22

– Early Monday a.m.: FBI Birmingham office reaches out to NASCAR.

~ 10 a.m.: FBI arrives at Talladega Superspeedway with 15 field agents to begin investigation. NASCAR provides the FBI with a list of personnel with access to the garage, as well as video and images taken from the weekend and the 2019 fall weekend as well.
– Over the course of the day: FBI interviews race team personnel from multiple teams, NASCAR officials, track, fire and safety personnel and track custodial staff. Talladega Superspeedway also provides the FBI with a list of events that had taken place since October 2019, which is when the new garages opened.
– End of the day: FBI reports interviews are complete for the day and the evidence at that point was inconclusive, with plans to continue its investigation the next morning.
Tuesday, June 23
– Early Tuesday a.m.: NASCAR receives additional video and provides it to the FBI. The video corroborated the testimony from one of the interviews the FBI had conducted earlier that the noose was present in that stall during the fall 2019 Cup event. The U.S. Attorney’s Office and the FBI informed NASCAR that their investigation had conclusively found this was not a hate crime.
– 4:10. p.m.: FBI releases statement indicating findings of investigation.
– 4:15 p.m.: After awaiting signal from the FBI, NASCAR releases statement on FBI investigation, with teleconference that follows.



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StandOnIt said:
“Should we have toned that message down slightly?” Phelps said. “Maybe we should have. And I’ll take responsibility for that. I stand by the actions that we took and I think they were the right ones.
“Given the evidence that we had, we would do the same thing. We would investigate it the same way. If it comes to where we need to craft a statement differently, and I need to take a little emotion out of it, that’s something I’ll do.”
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Right, tone it down and take the emotion out of it, if he had done that we're not having this discussion. ;):D
 
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Dwayne said:
Right, tone it down and take the emotion out of it, if he had done that we're not having this discussion.
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I guess some are more easily affected than others. Like I have said many times I knew when the FBI was involved they would get to the bottom of it. I don't think Phelps could apologize enough to suit the butt hurt ones, apparently he didn't think so either
 
I can't fault Phelps for his words in the heat of the moment. I can think of many times I regretted saying things when I was mad or upset over something. He's human. Words sometimes come out wrong when a human is upset. He's owned it.


And again --- had NASCAR kept this under wraps, doing an internal investigation and it got out to the public that this had happened, people would be calling for their heads. So they can't win. I'd rather be safe, than sorry. A little over-reaction is better than too little.

I'm ready to move on to racing at Pocono.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I can't fault Phelps for his words in the heat of the moment. I can think of many times I regretted saying things when I was mad or upset over something. He's human. Words sometimes come out wrong when a human is upset. He's owned it.


And again --- had NASCAR kept this under wraps, doing an internal investigation and it got out to the public that this had happened, people would be calling for their heads. So they can't win. I'd rather be safe, than sorry. A little over-reaction is better than too little.

I'm ready to move on to racing at Pocono.
Click to expand...
As I said, with the climate of whats going on right now, they could have used more tact in the way they released it instead of giving the impression that someone had actually left a noose in Bubbas garage, but yeah you're right lets move on.
 
frank-drebin-nothing-to-see.gif
 
Dwayne said:
As I said, with the climate of whats going on right now, they could have used more tact in the way they released it instead of giving the impression that someone had actually left a noose in Bubbas garage, but yeah you're right lets move on.
Click to expand...
Nobody knew what was happening. That was why there was an investigation.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I think the reason as to why people were peeved at NASCAR is lost in the fray over the rope itself.

Before the FBI even got involved, NASCAR told the world that a noose was found in Bubba’s garage and that it was a “heinous act“, that they would “identify the person responsible and eliminate them from the sport” and that “there is no place for racism in NASCAR”.

This was the original statement as if NASCAR already knew many of the facts from the incident. This statement caused every major news outlet in the world to latch on like leeches. NASCAR held a beautiful unity ceremony. Bubba was in tears. Dozens of drivers and even Bubba himself made social media statements against it. Celebrities came out to support Bubba and the sport in their fight against such “heinous”acts.

They decided to speak out and do all of this before the investigation ended. When in reality, that knot was tied at minimum 7 months ago. It was being used as a garage door pull. The FBI told Bubba that it’s not a functioning noose. There was no targeted message. There was no crime. The leaders of the sport made an emotional over-reaction in relation to the facts that were available at the time. They made fools out of themselves and Bubba’s ethical reputation is on blast. It’s an embarrassing PR disaster for an international brand and for the only major sport currently operating. It was not a hoax, but an incredibly immature gaff.
Click to expand...
LMAO. Chex, you've posted time after time in the last couple days, smearing everyone in sight about what you call a handle on a rope. JFC man, that's a straight up noose just like Bubba said. And out of 1,684 garages surveyed, it's the only one. Put down that shovel, you're just digging yourself in deeper....

Noose Talladega 2020.jpg
 
StandOnIt said:
Looks like you overreacted. Some of us were saying that the FBI would figure it out..and dammed if they didn't do just that from what they say, the FBI came to Nascar. But that hasn't stopped the would a's and could a's from coming out of the woodwork.
Click to expand...

I didn't overreact at all, I just assumed that Phelps knew what the hell he was talking about.
 
LewTheShoe said:
LMAO. Chex, you've posted time after time in the last couple days, smearing everyone in sight about what you call a handle on a rope. JFC man, that's a straight up noose just like Bubba said. And out of 1,684 garages surveyed, it's the only one. Put down that shovel, you're just digging yourself in deeper....

View attachment 47550View attachment 47551
Click to expand...

Yep, it's a (non-functional) noose, and it was there LONG before Bubba got there. END OF STORY.
 
It isn’t unreasonable to suspect that some a**hole tied the end of it into a noose knot as a racial statement or joke, even if it is the same rope as all the other stalls.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I can't fault Phelps for his words in the heat of the moment. I can think of many times I regretted saying things when I was mad or upset over something. He's human. Words sometimes come out wrong when a human is upset. He's owned it.
Click to expand...

Except that he gets PAID a LOT of money to NOT do just what he DID do, overreact. This wasn't some spur of the moment thing, he had PLENTY of time to fashion a response that wasn't so inflammatory and devoid of facts.
 
DSquad48 said:
It isn’t unreasonable to suspect that some a**hole tied the end of it into a noose knot as a racial statement or joke, even if it is the same rope as all the other stalls.
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It was posted a couple spaces up that they did have Nascar security check over the garage and this was the only noose out of every stall in the garage, and it was in the 43's garage.
 
Formerjackman said:
Except that he gets PAID a LOT of money to NOT do just what he DID do, overreact. This wasn't some spur of the moment thing, he had PLENTY of time to fashion a response that wasn't so inflammatory and devoid of facts.
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Once again. some of us who weren't as hysterical knew when the FBI got there that they would get to the bottom of it. Some of us didn't think in the least that Nascar's statement was overdramatic given the circumstances. Only hangmans noose in the garage in Wallace's spot in the garage who had voiced his displeasure over the confederate flag and Nascar's action to ban the flag after that..wake up.
 
DSquad48 said:
It isn’t unreasonable to suspect that some a**hole tied the end of it into a noose knot as a racial statement or joke, even if it is the same rope as all the other stalls.
Click to expand...

It's also not unreasonable (and a hell of a lot more likely) that it had NOTHING to do with race. On a normal weekend, that garage has hundreds of white people in an out of it, and VERY few black people coming in and out, and it is up against a door jam where it could be and evidently WAS overlooked for MONTHS or more. If this was supposed to be a message to someone, it's perhaps the worst one I have EVER seen.....
 
LewTheShoe said:
LMAO. Chex, you've posted time after time in the last couple days, smearing everyone in sight about what you call a handle on a rope. JFC man, that's a straight up noose just like Bubba said. And out of 1,684 garages surveyed, it's the only one. Put down that shovel, you're just digging yourself in deeper....

View attachment 47550View attachment 47551
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What the hell are you talking about? I haven’t smeared anyone. I was the first person to post photos and videos of this noose from fan videos and I got labled a conspiracy theorist. **** outta here.

A noose is not a symbol of hate or a crime to tie. It’s a tool used for various reasons. In this case it’s used as a garage door pull. It’s not a functioning noose so it’s basically a bimini twist. It’s been there at minimum since last November and nobody knows why it was tied but we do know that it was not sent as a threat or a message of hate.

Saying “well it’s still a noose” doesn’t mean anything. It’s a knot on a rope. Chill, Rambo.
 
StandOnIt said:
Once again. some of us who weren't as hysterical knew when the FBI got there that they would get to the bottom of it. Some of us didn't think in the least that Nascar's statement was overdramatic given the circumstances. Only hangmans noose in the garage in Wallace's spot in the garage who had voiced his displeasure over the confederate flag and Nascar's action to ban the flag after that..wake up.
Click to expand...

It WOULDN'T have been an overreaction if there had been ANYTHING other than a coincidence that it was in the 43 garage stall. NASCAR simply went WAT TOO FAR out on a limb and then sawed it off behind them. As I said, what must Phelps think about his people?
 
DSquad48 said:
It isn’t unreasonable to suspect that some a**hole tied the end of it into a noose knot as a racial statement or joke, even if it is the same rope as all the other stalls.
Click to expand...
StandOnIt said:
It was posted a couple spaces up that they did have Nascar security check over the garage and this was the only noose out of every stall in the garage, and it was in the 43's garage.
Click to expand...
So we’re just gonna ignore that it’s been there for at minimum 7 months? Bubba’s team was assigned a garage stall that had a noose-like knot as a door pull. It wasn’t fashioned after they moved in. To say or allude that it was is nothing short of willful ignorance.
 
Formerjackman said:
It's also not unreasonable (and a hell of a lot more likely) that it had NOTHING to do with race. On a normal weekend, that garage has hundreds of white people in an out of it, and VERY few black people coming in and out, and it is up against a door jam where it could be and evidently WAS overlooked for MONTHS or more. If this was supposed to be a message to someone, it's perhaps the worst one I have EVER seen.....
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ya got your so called facts twisted again. It was a one day show, cars weren't in the garage unless they failed inspection..there wereN't hundreds of people milling around. I guess if you have your head up your ass you would think there was no problem having a noose in the garage. They had just banned the confederat flag from their events spured on by a comment from Wallace and a plane flying over with a confederate flag flying behind it saying defund Nascar making the news..Hell we got no problem here bud right? no possible intent.
 
Formerjackman said:
Yep, it's a (non-functional) noose, and it was there LONG before Bubba got there. END OF STORY.
Click to expand...
A non-functioning noose isn’t a noose by definition. I can’t believe this level of semantics has to be played. If it doesn’t slip, it’s not a noose. Just because it looks like one doesn’t mean it is one.

The idea is being lost that the knot and investigation isn’t the controversy. They can investigate whatever they want, they are a private business. But they told the entire world it was a heinous act and that it was someone placing a racist message of hate infront of Bubba and that said person would be eliminated from the sport. They played themselves by leaping to conclusions without proper evidence and ran their opinions to the press.

By that time Bubba had never seen the knot in person or knew any context. NASCAR created a story and Bubba believed it, leading him to think that there was some awful racist threatening him in his place of work. When it reality that was far from the truth. That is a real crime here.
 
LewTheShoe said:
It's somehow reassuring to see that NASCAR doesn't have a monopoly on racist a**holes with Twitter accounts...

Former MLB Star Curt Schilling Deactivates Twitter After Comparing Bubba Wallace to Jussie Smollett

www.nj.com

Curt Schilling quits Twitter after taking shot at Bubba Wallace, feuding with Trevor Bauer

Former Phillies, Red Sox and Diamondbacks ace Curt Schilling was back to his old controversial ways this week.
www.nj.com www.nj.com
Click to expand...
The comparison really is awful. Jussie was an attention seeking whore who, one his lonesome, made up an entire story to spark a race and political war.

Bubba was left in the dark completely and was lead astray by people he trusted.
 
Up until now, this has been fairly calm discussion. But some are getting a little out of control.
Gather yourselves back up. Or this will be headed to the basement. I really don't want to do that.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
A non-functioning noose isn’t a noose by definition. I can’t believe this level of semantics has to be played. If it doesn’t slip, it’s not a noose. Just because it looks like one doesn’t mean it is one./QUOTE]
I wonder what would happen if somebody would place that non functioning noose/knot whatever as you call it around their neck and jumped from a higher place. Here lies so in so, he thought it wasn't a noose :laugh:
Click to expand...
 
ChexOrWrex said:
So we’re just gonna ignore that it’s been there for at minimum 7 months? Bubba’s team was assigned a garage stall that had a noose-like knot as a door pull. It wasn’t fashioned after they moved in. To say or allude that it was is nothing short of willful ignorance.
Click to expand...

My point is that a racist a**hole could have tied the rope into a noose knot months ago. Did you see the picture? Who the hell ties a garage pull like that? It’s a blatant noose knot. Everybody knows the racial implications of a noose knot. If you don’t you probably don’t belong in a professional garage, at least by the standards of modern society.

Nothing to do with Bubba other than he having been unluckily assigned to the noose stall.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
A noose is not a symbol of hate or a crime to tie. It’s a tool used for various reasons.
Click to expand...

This is the heart of the disagreement right here.

A noose most definitely has racial connotations and anybody tying one in 2019 or beyond knows this...especially in the US...especially in the south...especially in Alabama...especially in a NASCAR garage
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I can't fault Phelps for his words in the heat of the moment.
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I can. His job includes crisis management.

Mr. Phelps is running a billion dollar entertainment operation with a PR department presumably staffed with educated, trained professionals. He was very poorly advised by those people or he chose to make his announcement in the absence of their counsel. What's left is a PR disaster on an international scale. Inexcusable.
 
eh another thing that might change Chex's mind. He could tie one of those non functioning noose knots around his rear view mirror and drive around for awhile
 
LewTheShoe said:
It's somehow reassuring to see that NASCAR doesn't have a monopoly on racist a**holes with Twitter accounts...

Former MLB Star Curt Schilling Deactivates Twitter After Comparing Bubba Wallace to Jussie Smollett

www.nj.com

Curt Schilling quits Twitter after taking shot at Bubba Wallace, feuding with Trevor Bauer

Former Phillies, Red Sox and Diamondbacks ace Curt Schilling was back to his old controversial ways this week.
www.nj.com www.nj.com
Click to expand...
Schilling will be spewing bile on Parler in a flash.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The idea is being lost that the knot and investigation isn’t the controversy. They can investigate whatever they want, they are a private business. But they told the entire world it was a heinous act and that it was someone placing a racist message of hate infront of Bubba and that said person would be eliminated from the sport. They played themselves by leaping to conclusions without proper evidence and ran their opinions to the press.

By that time Bubba had never seen the knot in person or knew any context. NASCAR created a story and Bubba believed it, leading him to think that there was some awful racist threatening him in his place of work. When it reality that was far from the truth. That is a real crime here.
Click to expand...

^^^This^^^ And it amazes me how many don't get this.
 
DSquad48 said:
My point is that a racist a**hole could have tied the rope into a noose knot months ago. Did you see the picture? Who the hell ties a garage pull like that? It’s a blatant noose knot. Everybody knows the racial implications of a noose knot. If you don’t you probably don’t belong in a professional garage, at least by the standards of modern society.

Nothing to do with Bubba other than he having been unluckily assigned to the noose stall.
Click to expand...
The rope appears to be of a larger diameter than other "door pulls" that have been pictured in the Talladega garages.
 
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All the other pulls are straight strings or loops. It takes conscious effort to tie a garage string into a noose, and who else but a racist would do that? Who just goes around tying things into nooses if they aren’t racist? Nobody is that eager to show off their hangman knot tying abilities.

Bubba was a victim of some idiot’s carelessness and/or misplaced attempt at humor. Absolutely nothing wrong with him for being upset even if it’s been hanging for months.
 
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