Offseason topic.... If you could erase one rule from the MENCS rulebook, what would it be and why?

Old 97 said:
Nobody says anything about the composite bodies because everybody has been “dumbed down“ into accepting the fact that they’re all the same crap!
As far as spec parts and the “cost of racing“....... that’s fine for the lower series but for the cup series I really don’t care how much they spend!
How much did Harvick’s spoiler cost?
Was anybody worried about the cost then? No!
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eh you wouldn't notice the difference, doesn't have anything to do with dumbed down, in fact it is the opposite, lighter, easier to install and a hell of a lot more durable body
 
Old 97 said:
Nobody says anything about the composite bodies because everybody has been “dumbed down“ into accepting the fact that they’re all the same crap!
As far as spec parts and the “cost of racing“....... that’s fine for the lower series but for the cup series I really don’t care how much they spend!
How much did Harvick’s spoiler cost?
Was anybody worried about the cost then? No!
Click to expand...

Some people embrace the dumbing down of Nascar and think common parts, sealed engines and composite bodies are the cat’s whiskers.

If JGR wants to spend stupid money trying to enhance air guns or some other team wants to drop millions on shocks I am fine with it. If you want to go fast, innovate and promote competition you let teams employ smart people and let them get to work.
 
Yep there are a whole lot of fans that aren't too swuft and they think they will be able to tell the difference in a couple of seconds spread over a mile an a half. Should have taken physics.

Las Vegas test comparison to the old package

  • If you drove at last year’s pole speed (188.1 mph), it would take 6.524 seconds to make it all the way from Turn 4 to Turn 1.
  • If you drove at the top speed in the testing session (178.885 mph), it would take you 6.861 seconds.
 
Well if taking the skill away from the top drivers doesn’t constitute dumbing down IDK what does.

Some people value entertainment and illusion over over a speed contest and a sport as that is their preference.

We will know soon if the dumbing down is working as viewership and demographic information are posted each week.
 
StandOnIt said:
Yep there are a whole lot of fans that aren't too swuft and they think they will be able to tell the difference in a couple of seconds spread over a mile an a half. Should have taken physics.

Las Vegas test comparison to the old package

  • If you drove at last year’s pole speed (188.1 mph), it would take 6.524 seconds to make it all the way from Turn 4 to Turn 1.
  • If you drove at the top speed in the testing session (178.885 mph), it would take you 6.861 seconds.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, my years in artillery helped me develop calibrated eyeballs. :rolleyes:
 
The difference we’re talking about ‘slowing the cars down’ is

  • About a third of a second down the frontstretch
  • A little less than 2 seconds over a 1.5-mile lap
  • 8.9 minutes over the course of a 400-mile race.
 
StandOnIt said:
The difference we’re talking about ‘slowing the cars down’ is

  • About a third of a second down the frontstretch
  • A little less than 2 seconds over a 1.5-mile lap
  • 8.9 minutes over the course of a 400-mile race.
Click to expand...

What most people are concerned about is the way the 2019 rules negate the skills of the top drivers.
Even though I am not on board with this dumbing down I do hope it works for Nascar. We will know soon enough.
 
IanMcVittie said:
Well if taking the skill away from the top drivers doesn’t constitute dumbing down IDK what does.

Some people value entertainment and illusion over over a speed contest and a sport as that is their preference.

We will know soon if the dumbing down is working as viewership and demographic information are posted each week.
Click to expand...

How is this dumbing ( not a real word) down the skill of the top drivers???????
If the top drivers have the top cars they don't really need all their skills. On the other hand if the competition is right there with them, they will need their skills ( or have a very good spotter)
to be able to navagate.
Skills = Be able to recognize and plan for moves before they happen.
 
Team Penske said:
How is this dumbing ( not a real word) down the skill of the top drivers???????
If the top drivers have the top cars they don't really need all their skills. On the other hand if the competition is right there with them, they will need their skills ( or have a very good spotter)
to be able to navagate.
Skills = Be able to recognize and plan for moves before they happen.
Click to expand...
Hmmm how much skill does it take to get out front in clean air when all of the millions of bucks spent on aero is designed for just that, compared to drivers being able to race side by side in the corners if the car is fast enough to do so. Hey I'll go with the dumbing down every time.
 
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Team Penske said:
How is this dumbing ( not a real word) down the skill of the top drivers???????
If the top drivers have the top cars they don't really need all their skills. On the other hand if the competition is right there with them, they will need their skills ( or have a very good spotter)
to be able to navagate.
Skills = Be able to recognize and plan for moves before they happen.
Click to expand...

I’m fine if you or anyone else feels that the 2019 rules require the same amount of skill as last year.
 
StandOnIt said:
It isn't them.
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If it isn't @fury or @Magnethead then who is it? @TexasRaceLady said she no longer has access to those tools. And all the others listed as staff members haven't been active for many months or many years.

My post was simple discussion. It wasn't name-calling or trolling, although I observe that trolling seems to be encouraged here. I believe that my three year track record here as a good faith forum member deserves an explanation. If I can't call out a guy contradicting himself, then what is the point of this place?
 
I know who the hell it is, nothing has changed around here, and all ya have to do is watch the threads that call out what has happened. They disappear.
 
LewTheShoe said:
If it isn't @fury or @Magnethead then who is it? @TexasRaceLady said she no longer has access to those tools. And all the others listed as staff members haven't been active for many months or many years.

My post was simple discussion. It wasn't name-calling or trolling, although I observe that trolling seems to be encouraged here. I believe that my five year track record here as a good faith forum member deserves an explanation. If I can't call out a guy contradicting himself, then what is the point of this place?
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I think I can help you with a couple of things, Lew, but not with who the forum monitors are.

To the best of my knowledge a member of this forum has the same rights and privileges whether they have been here 10 minutes or 10 years. Therefore your tenure or record should extend any special privileges regard having a post edited or deleted.

You made reference to calling someone out and I think that may have been the root of the problem. In general you can’t call people out as it can be like throwing gasoline’s on a fire. If you are truly interested in gaining information send the member a PM
 
IanMcVittie said:
I think I can help you with a couple of things, Lew, but not with who the forum monitors are.

To the best of my knowledge a member of this forum has the same rights and privileges whether they have been here 10 minutes or 10 years. Therefore your tenure or record should extend any special privileges regard having a post edited or deleted.

You made reference to calling someone out and I think that may have been the root of the problem. In general you can’t call people out as it can be like throwing gasoline’s on a fire. If you are truly interested in gaining information send the member a PM
Click to expand...
ya see using that above definition, there are a number of us posters who post header topic posts, it has been my experience during your three name tenure here we have never seen you find any information to make a header info type post, but hundreds of times we have seen you steer our posts to one of your deathbed topics time and time again. So ya wonder why we have a problem?
 
StandOnIt said:
Hmmm how much skill does it take to get out front in clean air when all of the millions of bucks spent on aero is designed for just that, compared to drivers being able to race side by side in the corners if the car is fast enough to do so. Hey I'll go with the dumbing down every time.
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You just repeated what I was saying. The skills are now in demand more so IMO.
Every jet pilot can fly jets, how many can land on a carrier?
 
Team Penske said:
You just repeated what I was saying. The skills are now in demand more so IMO.
Every jet pilot can fly jets, how many can land on a carrier?
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yeah I know I did. I have never thought side by side in a corner..almost non existent with the cars for years was easier than single file, doesn't make any sense driver skill wise the difference between can't pass and can. These teams have such a book on every track on what works with the old car it isn't funny. Time for something different for awhile IMO
 
Skoal, I said my tenure here should entitle me to *an explanation* which is very different from what you said.

As you are aware, my post was directed to you... pointing out the hypocrisy of calling for a "run what you brung" philosophy in some posts while calling for "spec everything" including motors in other posts. I included quotes from you.

IMO, this type of discussion is the meat and the potatoes of a discussion forum. If one is not permitted to challenge the logic of posts that directly contradict, then what is the point of this place?
 
As I sit at my Golden Corral table in El Paso Texas — I’ve come to realize just how difficult it is to ignore this chat shack. :D

For those asking, I had a wonderful salad plate, four entree plates sampling the menu, and I just finished my dessert plate.
 
StandOnIt said:
Yep there are a whole lot of fans that aren't too swuft and they think they will be able to tell the difference in a couple of seconds spread over a mile an a half. Should have taken physics.

Las Vegas test comparison to the old package

  • If you drove at last year’s pole speed (188.1 mph), it would take 6.524 seconds to make it all the way from Turn 4 to Turn 1.
  • If you drove at the top speed in the testing session (178.885 mph), it would take you 6.861 seconds.
Click to expand...
They are not doing 188 or 178 mph around the whole track

Last year's cars were doing 205 into turn 1, and 155 in the middle of the corner.

This year's cars are doing 185 into the corner and 170 in the center.

Yes, there's a big difference.
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
They are not doing 188 or 178 mph around the whole track

Last year's cars were doing 205 into turn 1, and 155 in the middle of the corner.

This year's cars are doing 185 into the corner and 170 in the center.

Yes, there's a big difference.
Click to expand...
Those are average speeds...around the whole track. From the fall race at Vegas and the fastest lap speed from the test..that is called comparing likes with likes. BTW the cars will be cornering faster this year and slower down the straights. The added downforce is for maneuvering in the corners, not to make them easier to drive.
 
StandOnIt said:
ya see using that above definition, there are a number of us posters who post header topic posts, it has been my experience during your three name tenure here we have never seen you find any information to make a header info type post, but hundreds of times we have seen you steer our posts to one of your deathbed topics time and time again. So ya wonder why we have a problem?
Click to expand...

We have gone over this several times. It is not up to you to decide what posts are kosher and what posts are not. I strongly advise you to report any post that you feel contravenes forum rules or guidelines. Instead of blowing a gasket just allow the moderation team do their jobs.
 
I'd also like to see the splitters eliminated when the Gen 7 rolls out!
Just Sayin'
 
LewTheShoe said:
Skoal, I said my tenure here should entitle me to *an explanation* which is very different from what you said.

As you are aware, my post was directed to you... pointing out the hypocrisy of calling for a "run what you brung" philosophy in some posts while calling for "spec everything" including motors in other posts. I included quotes from you.

IMO, this type of discussion is the meat and the potatoes of a discussion forum. If one is not permitted to challenge the logic of posts that directly contradict, then what is the point of this place?
Click to expand...

Your tenure here should not entitle you to anything especially when you include a “WTF” in it when addressing the moderating staff.

I never saw the offending post so IDK who it was addressed to or what its content was. If you have any questions or concerns that relate to me personally please PM me and I will respond to you.

You must have me mixed up with someone else as I have not even entertained the idea of run what ya brung. Since I have been able to follow Nascar no team or driver has done that.

As far spec goes I have said that I feel that a spec engine will end up in cup. My reason for feeling that way is twofold. The first reason is for the benefit of smaller teams and the second is to make it easier for new manufacturers to join the series. That is just an opinion.

I hope this clears up any confusion and that you are satisfied with this outcome. Feel free to PM me with any other concerns
 
Ventisca said:
As I sit at my Golden Corral table in El Paso Texas — I’ve come to realize just how difficult it is to ignore this chat shack. :D

For those asking, I had a wonderful salad plate, four entree plates sampling the menu, and I just finished my dessert plate.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate your sense of humor as it is something sorely lacking in certain quarters. I agree this place has something for everyone from chitchat to sports to auto racing and all the wonderful things in between the lines.
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
They are not doing 188 or 178 mph around the whole track

Last year's cars were doing 205 into turn 1, and 155 in the middle of the corner.

This year's cars are doing 185 into the corner and 170 in the center.

Yes, there's a big difference.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
Ventisca said:
As I sit at my Golden Corral table in El Paso Texas — I’ve come to realize just how difficult it is to ignore this chat shack. :D

For those asking, I had a wonderful salad plate, four entree plates sampling the menu, and I just finished my dessert plate.
Click to expand...
Nothing at GC is the very best of its kind, but a lot of it is pretty darn good.
 
StandOnIt said:
Those are average speeds...around the whole track. From the fall race at Vegas and the fastest lap speed from the test..that is called comparing likes with likes. BTW the cars will be cornering faster this year and slower down the straights. The added downforce is for maneuvering in the corners, not to make them easier to drive.
Click to expand...
But the fact that you can tell the difference is because straightaway speeds are much different. I know what average speed is. Doesn't mean that the speed difference is only 10 mph at all points on the track.
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
But the fact that you can tell the difference is because straightaway speeds are much different. I know what average speed is. Doesn't mean that the speed difference is only 10 mph at all points on the track.
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that isn't what was said. Using the fastest lap the pole speed from the fall Vegas race to the fastest lap in the test are what these figures are derived from

  • About a third of a second down the frontstretch
  • A little less than 2 seconds over a 1.5-mile lap
  • 8.9 minutes over the course of a 400-mile race.
  • If you drove at last year’s pole speed (188.1 mph), it would take 6.524 seconds to make it all the way from Turn 4 to Turn 1.
  • If you drove at the top speed in the testing session (178.885 mph), it would take you 6.861 seconds.
 
StandOnIt said:
that isn't what was said. Using the fastest lap the pole speed from the fall Vegas race to the fastest lap in the test are what these figures are derived from

  • About a third of a second down the frontstretch
  • A little less than 2 seconds over a 1.5-mile lap
  • 8.9 minutes over the course of a 400-mile race.
  • If you drove at last year’s pole speed (188.1 mph), it would take 6.524 seconds to make it all the way from Turn 4 to Turn 1.
  • If you drove at the top speed in the testing session (178.885 mph), it would take you 6.861 seconds.
Click to expand...
And you used those figures to try and prove that there isn't much of a difference and you can't tell they're slower, when anyone with eyes can. Just some people refuse to criticize anything NASCAR does.
 
If you can tell two seconds over a mile and a half, more power to ya, I know YOU will be able to tell, but I surely doubt most people can or will care.

A difference in speed of 9.236 mph corresponds to a difference in time down the frontstretch of about a third of a second (337 milliseconds). The blink of an eye takes about 300-400 milliseconds.
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
They are not doing 188 or 178 mph around the whole track

Last year's cars were doing 205 into turn 1, and 155 in the middle of the corner.

This year's cars are doing 185 into the corner and 170 in the center.

Yes, there's a big difference.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Most everyone has stated that how the cars drive and race is radically different with the new package. I haven't seen anyone credibly argue otherwise. Anyone who watches racing closely or has ever driven anything competitively, even go karts, knows that there is an enormous difference between a 50 MPH gap between top speed and corner speed and a 15 MPH difference.

Many believe this makes for radically better racing, many believe it is a radical step backward. Different fans place importance on different aspects of racing.
 
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