Offseason topic.... If you could erase one rule from the MENCS rulebook, what would it be and why?

[StandOnIt]

The vast majority of fans like short tracks and road courses because of the excitement of passing involved. But apparently some like the single file of the 1.5's and none of them have ever trashed a 1.5 about the lack of passing and saying things like boring, can't believe they have two dates and any other such thing. Yeah sure I believe ya.

 

[IanMcVittie]

Agreed. Most everyone has stated that how the cars drive and race is radically different with the new package. I haven't seen anyone credibly argue otherwise. Anyone who watches racing closely or has ever driven anything competitively, even go karts, knows that there is an enormous difference between a 50 MPH gap between top speed and corner speed and a 15 MPH difference.

Many believe this makes for radically better racing, many believe it is a radical step backward. Different fans place importance on different aspects of racing.

I enjoyed the racing last year and I feel no need to justify my preference to anyone. IDK why anyone feels the need to justify why they like the 2019 rules as it isn’t necessary.

 

[IanMcVittie]

The vast majority of fans like short tracks and road courses because of the excitement of passing involved. But apparently some like the single file of the 1.5's and none of them have ever trashed a 1.5 about the lack of passing and saying things like boring, can't believe they have two dates and any other such thing. Yeah sure I believe ya.

None of this has anything to do with incorrect application of speed and time you put forth on this page.

 

[IanMcVittie]

It may have been a three-headed monster, but two of the heads were amputated and the accounts purged.

I wouldn't be surprised if it can regenerate yet another one when the current one flames out.

I sure hope I can maintain membership as I really enjoy myself here.

 

[StandOnIt]

I sure hope I can maintain membership as I really enjoy myself here.

keep on keeping on, you have a perfect record so far

 

[gnomesayin]

I sure hope I can maintain membership as I really enjoy myself here.

Third time's the charm?

 

[IanMcVittie]

keep on keeping on, you have a perfect record so far

Third time's the charm?

I never take anything for granted but with all that is going on this year I am glad to be on board. If it works out that you don’t care for the 2019 rules will you still watch those races or take a pass?

 

[Formerjackman]

And you used those figures to try and prove that there isn't much of a difference and you can't tell they're slower, when anyone with eyes can. Just some people refuse to criticize anything NASCAR does.

The cars are slower down the straights, I can see the difference, and I STILL don't care one bit if it provides better racing. The first time I went to Michigan (1983) the pole speed was 165 MPH, and it was better than just about any race I have seen there since. In fact, I stopped going there after 1999, because the faster it got, the more boring it got.

 

[StandOnIt]

Nascar could probably fix most of their aero problems with a car that looks like an INDY car, huge tires, super light, with big spoilers and splitters and covered wheels so they don't go flying when the so much as touch. But it wouldn't look anything like a production car. They have hit the wall with what they have, hasn't mattered much low or high downforce the cars are too aero dependent for the speeds they run.

 

[IanMcVittie]

The cars are slower down the straights, I can see the difference, and I STILL don't care one bit if it provides better racing. The first time I went to Michigan (1983) the pole speed was 165 MPH, and it was better than just about any race I have seen there since. In fact, I stopped going there after 1999, because the faster it got, the more boring it got.

While I may not agree with you I really appreciate your candor. I remember you saying you found some of last year’s racing sleep inducing and think this year things will be better.

I am looking forward to seeing what the rules look like during a real race.

 

[IanMcVittie]

Nascar could probably fix most of their aero problems with a car that looks like an INDY car, huge tires, super light, with big spoilers and splitters and covered wheels so they don't go flying when the so much as touch. But it wouldn't look anything like a production car. They have hit the wall with what they have, hasn't mattered much low or high downforce the cars are too aero dependent for the speeds they run.

The cars Nascar uses now don’t look anything like a production car. I think 1989-90 was the last year anything looked like it was a production model.

 

[Ventisca]

Very entertaining, but I can’t wait for the Daytona 500 to get the focus on racing action.

 

[StandOnIt]

The cars are slower down the straights, I can see the difference, and I STILL don't care one bit if it provides better racing. The first time I went to Michigan (1983) the pole speed was 165 MPH, and it was better than just about any race I have seen there since. In fact, I stopped going there after 1999, because the faster it got, the more boring it got.

Good eye.
The front straightaway at Las Vegas is about 1800 feet. How long does it take to drive that distance?
6.5 seconds at 189 mph
6.9 seconds at 178

 

[Efisher131]

The cars are slower down the straights, I can see the difference, and I STILL don't care one bit if it provides better racing. The first time I went to Michigan (1983) the pole speed was 165 MPH, and it was better than just about any race I have seen there since. In fact, I stopped going there after 1999, because the faster it got, the more boring it got.

At least you admit you can see the difference. That's what the argument was. I'm all for better racing.

 

[Efisher131]

Good eye.
The front straightaway at Las Vegas is about 1800 feet. How long does it take to drive that distance?
6.5 seconds at 189 mph
6.9 seconds at 178

They do not hold the same speed the whole way down the straightaway. That is the flaw with your statement.

 

[IanMcVittie]

They do not hold the same speed the whole way down the straightaway. That is the flaw with your statement.

Holding an exact speed down the straightaway does not seem likely.

 

[StandOnIt]

They do not hold the same speed the whole way down the straightaway. That is the flaw with your statement.

your flaw is not knowing that there are two seconds difference in lap speeds
I'll do the math for ya.
1/3 second slower down the straight times two, = two thirds of a second slower for the straights, so 4 thirds of a second left for both of the corners divided by 2 = 2/3rds of a second in each corner and it all adds up to two seconds slower. But here is the bottom line for many of ya
The takeaway: If you’re one of those people who’s already convinced that the cars are going to be slower and it’s going to ruin your enjoyment of the sport, it’s very likely that this is exactly what is going to happen.

 

[Efisher131]

your flaw is not knowing that there are two seconds difference in lap speeds
I'll do the math for ya.
1/3 second slower down the straight times two, = two thirds of a second slower for the straights, so 4 thirds of a second left for both of the corners divided by 2 = 2/3rds of a second in each corner and it all adds up to two seconds slower. But here is the bottom line for many of ya
The takeaway: If you’re one of those people who’s already convinced that the cars are going to be slower and it’s going to ruin your enjoyment of the sport, it’s very likely that this is exactly what is going to happen.

They're faster in the corners though...

More downforce = increased corner speed

 

[Old 97]

Well....…. It was fun while it lasted.
Thanks for playing along!
This thread made it for quite awhile until the same typical BS with the same typical players ensued.
Carry on...………..

 

[StandOnIt]

They're faster in the corners though...

More downforce = increased corner speed

yep about .337= three hundred and 37 thousands of a second accordinding to these figures for the old package, it is faster..two seconds faster overall around the 1'5 mile track. I wouldn't bank on the cars matching these testing figures after the teams work on the package for awhile, but I am sure opinions will vary

• If you drove at last year’s pole speed (188.1 mph), it would take 6.524 seconds to make it all the way from Turn 4 to Turn 1.
• If you drove at the top speed in the testing session (178.885 mph), it would take you 6.861 seconds.

 

[Efisher131]

yep about .337= three hundred and 37 thousands of a second accordinding to these figures

• If you drove at last year’s pole speed (188.1 mph), it would take 6.524 seconds to make it all the way from Turn 4 to Turn 1.
• If you drove at the top speed in the testing session (178.885 mph), it would take you 6.861 seconds.

Um what? How can they be faster in the corners than 2018, and only 1/3 of a second slower down the straights than in 2018, and it come out to 2 seconds slower? You using that new common core stuff?

 

[StandOnIt]

Um what? How can they be faster in the corners than 2018, and only 1/3 of a second slower down the straights than in 2018, and it come out to 2 seconds slower? You using that new common core stuff?

you either aren't reading the figures properly or who knows what.

 

[Efisher131]

you either aren't reading the figures properly or who knows what.

The 2019 package cars are faster in the corner than the 2018 package cars. They are NOT 2/3 of a second slower per corner. Center of the corner speeds are now higher.

That means that the difference in each straightaway is at least 1 second.

 

[StandOnIt]

not true

 

[LewTheShoe]

Mr. Vittie's "run what ya brung" solution for Nascar...

Some people embrace the dumbing down of Nascar and think common parts, sealed engines and composite bodies are the cat’s whiskers.

If JGR wants to spend stupid money trying to enhance air guns or some other team wants to drop millions on shocks I am fine with it. If you want to go fast, innovate and promote competition you let teams employ smart people and let them get to work.

 

[StandOnIt]

The 2019 package cars are faster in the corner than the 2018 package cars. They are NOT 2/3 of a second slower per corner. Center of the corner speeds are now higher.

That means that the difference in each straightaway is at least 1 second.

you could be right, I was obviously using average lap speeds for both. A simple way of looking at it is last fall they were running 190, the test they were running 180 ave laps. I hazard to guess there are some eagle eyes here that think they can tell the 10 mph difference and will swear to the fact.

 

[LewTheShoe]

Haha, now the shadow moderator(s) are in the business of deleting posts that are deemed "nonsensical"? I assume that Ian is the mystery moderator's press secretary, given his explanations of the decisions made. Congrats on the new gig Ian.

This is why I don't report posts aside from spam, and instead I engage or confront those I disagree with. Over-moderation is worse than under-moderation.

LOL. The real "nonsensical" would be a Nascar world with a higher budget for pit guns than for (spec) engines, ha ha ha. I'm done. This was a fun thread for a while... until the usual happened.

 

[Ventisca]

IDK

TRL gave warnings and sometimes told you why she “wronged you” — that made it kinda personal, but it was more open.

The Avatar-less Mods are quietly going about their business of cleaning up the chat room for the benefit of this humble community. Less personal.

Just two different styles — I guess we deserve the Mods we get...

 

[Team Penske]

If it stops the "Family feud", I am all for it. Pisses me off to have to scroll through all that ****.
Three people more worried about what one guy says under what name than what happens on the race track. Cut out the

 

[IanMcVittie]

you could be right, I was obviously using average lap speeds for both. A simple way of looking at it is last fall they were running 190, the test they were running 180 ave laps. I hazard to guess there are some eagle eyes here that think they can tell the 10 mph difference and will swear to the fact.

IMO he is correct.

 

[IanMcVittie]

Haha, now the shadow moderator(s) are in the business of deleting posts that are deemed "nonsensical"? I assume that Ian is the mystery moderator's press secretary, given his explanations of the decisions made. Congrats on the new gig Ian.

This is why I don't report posts aside from spam, and instead I engage or confront those I disagree with. Over-moderation is worse than under-moderation.

IDK who the moderators are on the forum and I don’t need to know. IMO it would behoove you guys to worry far more about yourselves and far less about me.

 

[IanMcVittie]

LOL. The real "nonsensical" would be a Nascar world with a higher budget for pit guns than for (spec) engines, ha ha ha. I'm done. This was a fun thread for a while... until the usual happened.

Different opinions are fine but going to pieces over them isn’t.

 

[IanMcVittie]

IDK

TRL gave warnings and sometimes told you why she “wronged you” — that made it kinda personal, but it was more open.

The Avatar-less Mods are quietly going about their business of cleaning up the chat room for the benefit of this humble community. Less personal.

Just two different styles — I guess we deserve the Mods we get...

I think some people incorrectly assume that if they don’t care for the content or style of a post it should not be permissible. IMO if a person feels that way they should ignore the posts/member instead of engaging them.

 

[aunty dive]

^ Common denominator in all of these “disputes”.

You, sir, should have been perma-banned the first time.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

If it stops the "Family feud", I am all for it. Pisses me off to have to scroll through all that sh!t.
Three people more worried about what one guy says under what name than what happens on the race track. Cut out the

I've never understood why people feel compelled to respond to a complete stranger on the Internet, when they'd avoid that stranger if he or she was in Wal-mart's produce section spouting off about the collard greens. In both cases all it takes is ignoring him or her, if not permanently then at least for the duration of the subject.

 

[IanMcVittie]

I've never understood why people feel compelled to respond to a complete stranger on the Internet, when they'd avoid that stranger if he or she was in Wal-mart's produce section spouting off about the collard greens. In both cases all it takes is ignoring him or her, if not permanently then at least for the duration of the subject.

What you say makes perfect sense and there are people that I ignore for a variety of reasons.

 

[StandOnIt]

what rules.

 

[IanMcVittie]

what rules.

JMO but what I think what you are doing now is not working for you so why not try ignoring the offending member? Quit trying to be a de facto moderator and allow them to do the job. Do your thing and enjoy yourself and leave the rest up to those in charge.

 

[StandOnIt]

JMO but what I think what you are doing now is not working for you so why not try ignoring the offending member? Quit trying to be a de facto moderator and allow them to do the job. Do your thing and enjoy yourself and leave the rest up to those in charge.

 

[IanMcVittie]

Don’t worry.....be happy!!!!