Paying their dues?

I dont blame RCR for putting his grandsons into racing, or any other similar cases.
But Nascar could do more to connect with the grass roots. The simple fact remains that Nascar is much futher removed from the common man than ever.
In the 70s the average Joe actually knew more people that actually raced. Or a gas station that pushed the race car out in the morning so they change the publics oil and tires.

Richard Petty Lee Pettys son, I get that it has always been a tight loop with not enough opportunities for outsiders.
And a 12 or 14 year old racing is more about the parents paying the dues and about hiring driving coaches etc. I dont blame them for taking advantage of their rescources, who wouldn't?
But still the same I do find the old paths more entertaining and more interesting.
The kid is a more of a collective result, still discovering life, with all of the innocence that good people love.

But dont expect me to be to excited over mom and pops dream. It aint the same as young adult trying to cut it more on his own merits. Busting his ass to pay the tire bill. And there should be some late model races that have enough shine for him to show his stuff to the king makers.

The old Busch Grand National series was a good example. It was grass roots with drivers that raced at the local tracks. It was just something that I could feel and wrap my mind around.
It still happens, Eric Jones caught Kyle Buschs eye at the snowball derby. Brad K drove his ass off in a one off deal, and caught the eye of Dale Earnhardt Jr

I get the fact that Austin Dillion has turned into a very good respectable driver. He looks on track to be a Monster Cup Winner, just a matter of time. I think he only become a stronger title contender with time.

Just dont expect me to believe he has deal with the stress that Brad K ever had to face. There wasn't the same kind of safety net, the resources (money) was not as deep.
Maybe I take it to personally but a driver that never had to moon light to race isnt someone that could ever relate to me. Might as well be an Alien to my world.

He naturally had to work for it to develop the skills, but I still cant bullsheit myself into being as inspired by their story. They never lived in a world were you worried about just having gas money, or even the paying the Saturday night entry fee.

That damn Stetson might well be a piece of plastic, it woud be no less functional, or representative.
You be old. Life don't work that way now. If you put something in your microwave for 3 minutes, do you actually go and do something for 3 minutes? Or more likely stand next to it last 30-40 seconds waiting impatiently. Society is different. Not better. Different. In 1999 i had a $950 a week guarantee. Made $1100-1400 a week. Now hard to make $700 a week doing same job. Nearly 20 years more experience. Worth less money. Waaaaaaay less insurance coverage. World has changed. Definitely not for the better in my world. Racing costs money. NOBODY races for free. SOMEBODY pays the bills. Not a single car on the track above the lowest local class that runs out of drivers pocket. Not one.
 
You be old. Life don't work that way now. If you put something in your microwave for 3 minutes, do you actually go and do something for 3 minutes? Or more likely stand next to it last 30-40 seconds waiting impatiently. Society is different. Not better. Different. In 1999 i had a $950 a week guarantee. Made $1100-1400 a week. Now hard to make $700 a week doing same job. Nearly 20 years more experience. Worth less money. Waaaaaaay less insurance coverage. World has changed. Definitely not for the better in my world. Racing costs money. NOBODY races for free. SOMEBODY pays the bills. Not a single car on the track above the lowest local class that runs out of drivers pocket. Not one.

I will sign up for your racing cost money 101 after you work a 40 hour week, then work a 2nd job at Roadway all Friday night because you need money to race on Saturday. Followed up by loading the trailer on Saturday morning and driving out of state to make the race.

And add on a signature loan that you have to keep racing, with an engine that was built on a credit card. Then add in feeling guilty and trying to make it to the wife on Sunday, and when she left I could hardly blame her.

Them starting the cycle all over again on Monday. And finally add in 6 titanium rods not for the car, but for the back you blew out chasing a dream.

I get that racing is expensive and it will cost everything you have, the story of my life. I am not bitter, I made my choices and my only real regret was not properly warning the wife about how much it would all cost. I am satisfied I did my best, and believe I did what I had to do.

I didnt create the thread, or start a conversation about who was worthy. But I will answer if asked Teach, and I stand by original post.

BTW I make more money now than I have ever made even when adjusted for inflation , have great insurance and I am debt free, Life is good.
 
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I will sign up for your racing cost money 101 after you work a 40 hour week, then work a 2nd job at Roadway all Friday night because you need money to race on Saturday. Followed up by loading the trailer on Saturday morning and driving out of state to make the race.

And add on a signature loan that you have to keep racing, with an engine that was built on a credit card. Then add in feeling guilty and trying to make it to the wife on Sunday, and when she left I could hardly blame her.

Them starting the cycle all over again on Monday. And finally add in 6 titanium rods not for the car, but for the back you blew out chasing a dream.

I get that racing is expensive and it will cost everything you have, the story of my life. I am not bitter, I made my choices and my only real regret was not properly warning the wife about how much it would all cost. I am satisfied I did my best, and believe I did what I had to do.

I didnt create the thread, or start a conversation about who was worthy. But I will answer if asked Teach, and I stand by original post.

BTW I make more money now than I have ever made even when adjusted for inflation , have great insurance and I am debt free, Life is good.

My brother used to race go-karts, and I'm talking like purpose built racing go-karts, not the yard karts. He mostly raced on dirt tracks in the Southeast. For my brother to be competitive and to compete for wins week in and week out, my family spent $10,000 a year. Keep in mind that this was back in the 90's, so it's probably double that today.

Honestly, I wonder if racing has ever been in the reach of the common man. I mean sure, I can buy an old Ford Mustang, put in the safety equipment and then go ride around at my local short/dirt track. However, if I want to be competitive and consistently in the top 5s, it's going to take some cash.
 
Maybe I am just old...... and an old curmudgeon....... but I still appreciate the guys who moved up the ranks driving for people like Junie Donalevy.... until Jeff Gordon....... that was the norm..... now....... an 18 year old steps into a primo ride and makes millions before they are 21....... It's really nothing to me ..... but.... It would be if I was one of those drivers who had to work their butt off to get a top ride by the age of 25 or 30.....


I think Harry was... what? 39?
 
I will sign up for your racing cost money 101 after you work a 40 hour week, then work a 2nd job at Roadway all Friday night because you need money to race on Saturday. Followed up by loading the trailer on Saturday morning and driving out of state to make the race.

And add on a signature loan that you have to keep racing, with an engine that was built on a credit card. Then add in feeling guilty and trying to make it to the wife on Sunday, and when she left I could hardly blame her.

Them starting the cycle all over again on Monday. And finally add in 6 titanium rods not for the car, but for the back you blew out chasing a dream.

I get that racing is expensive and it will cost everything you have, the story of my life. I am not bitter, I made my choices and my only real regret was not properly warning the wife about how much it would all cost. I am satisfied I did my best, and believe I did what I had to do.

I didnt create the thread, or start a conversation about who was worthy. But I will answer if asked Teach, and I stand by original post.

BTW I make more money now than I have ever made even when adjusted for inflation , have great insurance and I am debt free, Life is good.

My work week is 55+ hours. Raced a bunch of stuff but never managed to get my own car on the track. Go-karts/dirtbikes/helped several dirt track car guys. No racing is cheap. But my point, which you seemed to miss, IS that racing is REALLY expensive. Some here seem to think you still can do it all alone. No family money, no sponsor. Wrong.
 
My brother used to race go-karts, and I'm talking like purpose built racing go-karts, not the yard karts. He mostly raced on dirt tracks in the Southeast. For my brother to be competitive and to compete for wins week in and week out, my family spent $10,000 a year. Keep in mind that this was back in the 90's, so it's probably double that today.

Honestly, I wonder if racing has ever been in the reach of the common man. I mean sure, I can buy an old Ford Mustang, put in the safety equipment and then go ride around at my local short/dirt track. However, if I want to be competitive and consistently in the top 5s, it's going to take some cash.
Cousin bought a 5hp Briggs back in early 90's from Comet South. Right at $1900. Just. A. Motor. I ran 2-stroke. Cheaper. But it was fun as hell!
 
Maybe I am just old...... and an old curmudgeon....... but I still appreciate the guys who moved up the ranks driving for people like Junie Donalevy.... until Jeff Gordon....... that was the norm..... now....... an 18 year old steps into a primo ride and makes millions before they are 21....... It's really nothing to me ..... but.... It would be if I was one of those drivers who had to work their butt off to get a top ride by the age of 25 or 30.....


I think Harry was... what? 39?
Those (few) kids stepping into a top ride at 18 started 'paying their dues' back when they were 10.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how Jeff Gordon didn't "pay his dues". He raced go karts and open wheel as a kid. I watched him on the Thunder shows on ESPN where he proved he was one helluva wheel man. There has to be something when FoMoCo, Jack Roush, and Rick Hendrick want you to drive for them. He "paid his dues" by being a great driver as he progressed up the ladder. Nobody "gave" him a ride he earned it by hendrick noticing his driving ability on the track.
 
Paying your dues means working through the feeder series. Having financial backing has always been part of the process. That's how sponsors got to be the most important member of a team.

I remember Jeff Burton being asked who is the most important member of a race team. He answered "The sponsor, nothing happens without a sponsor". As a race fan I didn't like that answer but it is true.
 
Paying your dues means working through the feeder series. Having financial backing has always been part of the process. That's how sponsors got to be the most important member of a team.

I remember Jeff Burton being asked who is the most important member of a race team. He answered "The sponsor, nothing happens without a sponsor". As a race fan I didn't like that answer but it is true.

Some people have gone into a complete tizzy when I have said the most important attribute of a team or driver is the ability to attract a sponsor but it is the truth. With sponsorships being harder and harder to obtain and retain they have become even more important.
 
Some people have gone into a complete tizzy when I have said the most important attribute of a team or driver is the ability to attract a sponsor but it is the truth. With sponsorships being harder and harder to obtain and retain they have become even more important.
Does anyone here think Paul Menard would still have a ride if daddy wasn't footing the bill?
 
Does anyone here think Paul Menard would still have a ride if daddy wasn't footing the bill?
Yep. Because he cares and he's exciting to watch.

2010-NSCS-Paul-Menard.jpg
 
He has a win in Indiana on the flat track they run open wheel things on.
 
To me "paying your dues" has nothing to do with money. Each racing series has dues that must be paid. It comes from making mistakes, and having the veterans educate you, in no uncertain terms, what you did wrong. It is also racing with injuries, after a nasty crash. It's all the seemingly small things you must learn, if you expect to be a competitive driver. I'm not saying money isn't important, you can't make it to this level without it. Why do some drivers get to the top series faster than others? Some drivers learn faster than others. Some have more natural talent than others. Some have family connections that make it easier to get a seat in good equipment. None of that will help you keep that seat if you don't have the talent. How many times have you seen drivers come into cup, with high hopes, just to see them disappear just as quickly. "Paying your dues" is learning how to race in the series you are in. Nobody gets into a cup car without having much experience. That's my opinion on this. Just an thought about why Austin Dillon is not liked very much. He drives the black number three. Fans of RCR, and Dale sr, I think are disappointed that he hasn't won yet. They make comparisons that Dillon will always come out on the short end of. I had a feeling this would happen when he decided to run that livery. If he was driving another color car, with a different style of number, I don't think he would be getting as much grief as he does. Again, only my opinion.
 
My work week is 55+ hours. Raced a bunch of stuff but never managed to get my own car on the track. Go-karts/dirtbikes/helped several dirt track car guys. No racing is cheap. But my point, which you seemed to miss, IS that racing is REALLY expensive. Some here seem to think you still can do it all alone. No family money, no sponsor. Wrong.

Agreed, I think the cheapest option today is sim racing, with services like iRacing that strives to provide the most authentic experience you can have without getting a real car.
 
To me "paying your dues" has nothing to do with money. Each racing series has dues that must be paid. It comes from making mistakes, and having the veterans educate you, in no uncertain terms, what you did wrong. It is also racing with injuries, after a nasty crash. It's all the seemingly small things you must learn, if you expect to be a competitive driver. I'm not saying money isn't important, you can't make it to this level without it. Why do some drivers get to the top series faster than others? Some drivers learn faster than others. Some have more natural talent than others. Some have family connections that make it easier to get a seat in good equipment. None of that will help you keep that seat if you don't have the talent. How many times have you seen drivers come into cup, with high hopes, just to see them disappear just as quickly. "Paying your dues" is learning how to race in the series you are in. Nobody gets into a cup car without having much experience. That's my opinion on this. Just an thought about why Austin Dillon is not liked very much. He drives the black number three. Fans of RCR, and Dale sr, I think are disappointed that he hasn't won yet. They make comparisons that Dillon will always come out on the short end of. I had a feeling this would happen when he decided to run that livery. If he was driving another color car, with a different style of number, I don't think he would be getting as much grief as he does. Again, only my opinion.

Austin Dillon is a driver that can get the Championship in Trucks, Xfinity, and Cup. I don't know what they would call it, but it would be quite the feat.
 
The days of some poor broke mill worker building his own Street Stock in his garage by himself and winning a ton of races then going to NASCAR are over. The role of the driver, and what it takes to make it into NASCAR as a driver, evolved when Jeff Gordon came on the scene.

TBH, I think it started way before Jeff Gordon. It started when the cars and the parts for the cars became specifically engineered for racing. That happened somewhere back in the 70's.
 
A daddy agreein’ to pay for tires and a percentage of the cost of repairin’ wrecked race cars to a second tier owner would have never happened back in the 70s…..
 
TBH, I think it started way before Jeff Gordon. It started when the cars and the parts for the cars became specifically engineered for racing. That happened somewhere back in the 70's.
The original Elliot team was last one i can think of to build most of their own stuff. Guess maybe Jr Johnson too?
 
Yep. Because he cares and he's exciting to watch.

2010-NSCS-Paul-Menard.jpg

It's simpler than that -- Race or become a Dilbert in Dad's Home Improvement empire.

Paul Menard chose wisely!

He would be a fool for not enjoying his life in motorsports.
 
It's simpler than that -- Race or become a Dilbert in Dad's Home Improvement empire.

Paul Menard chose wisely!

He would be a fool for not enjoying his life in motorsports.

and I'm sure Mr. Childress enjoys that Menard money.
 
I remember Jeff Burton being asked who is the most important member of a race team. He answered "The sponsor, nothing happens without a sponsor". As a race fan I didn't like that answer but it is true.
Some people have gone into a complete tizzy when I have said the most important attribute of a team or driver is the ability to attract a sponsor but it is the truth.
Nonsense. Jeff Burton never brought a sponsor to secure a ride. That is the team owner's job, with rare and insignificant exceptions, at the Cup level.

Insolvent companies struggle to operate successfully no matter what the line of endeavor, including racing. If one wishes to operate a race team, a measure of financial horsepower is required. Some pundits with a Nascar ax to grind twist this truism to claim the primary attribute of a driver to enter Cup racing is to bring sponsors to pay the bills, while racing ability is way less important. Danica Patrick or Paul Menard are generally cited.

It is nonsense to define Nascar by one or two insignificant backmarkers, while ignoring all of the relevant competitors who make up the grid. Most of the young Cup racers got their ride without bringing or attracting any sponsor... Logano, Keselowski, Stenhouse, Larson, Blaney, Buescher, Jones, etc, etc.
 
Nonsense. Jeff Burton never brought a sponsor to secure a ride. That is the team owner's job, with rare and insignificant exceptions, at the Cup level.

Insolvent companies struggle to operate successfully no matter what the line of endeavor, including racing. If one wishes to operate a race team, a measure of financial horsepower is required. Some pundits with a Nascar ax to grind twist this truism to claim the primary attribute of a driver to enter Cup racing is to bring sponsors to pay the bills, while racing ability is way less important. Danica Patrick or Paul Menard are generally cited.

It is nonsense to define Nascar by one or two insignificant backmarkers, while ignoring all of the relevant competitors who make up the grid. Most of the young Cup racers got their ride without bringing or attracting any sponsor... Logano, Keselowski, Stenhouse, Larson, Blaney, Buescher, Jones, etc, etc.
Nothing in the Burton quote that indicates HE brought in a sponsor. You missed the point and made it at same time. W/O sponsor you have no team. Seems like #1 thing you need. Or suppose you can spend your own money.
 
Nonsense. Jeff Burton never brought a sponsor to secure a ride. That is the team owner's job, with rare and insignificant exceptions, at the Cup level
He was asked a question by a fan. A Q&A thing, it had noting to do with securing a sponsor.
 
It's simpler than that -- Race or become a Dilbert in Dad's Home Improvement empire.

Paul Menard chose wisely!

He would be a fool for not enjoying his life in motorsports.

Menard earned his sponsorship from his dad, it was just not given to him.

Especially when he was younger winning Ice Racing and eventually moving up winning, his dad began to back him.
 
He was asked a question by a fan. A Q&A thing, it had noting to do with securing a sponsor.
My post responded to Skoal's statement, not Burton's. Sorry if I was unclear on that. Burton's comment is a truism in that no team can operare without paying the bills.
 
Go back and re-read my original post. You have to do it w/o outside money or it ain't "real" effort. MUST WORK 300 hours a week. Build everything yerself.
Me personally, I don't care one way or another. Every driver out there made it there. What difference does it make? Does it change what you see on the track?
 
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