Random NASCAR Stuff to talk about.....

It's a matter of degree, and I was sure everyone knew nascar's engineers worked and worked on aero dependant devices to make these cars stick. From there, it's simple logic to see the rise of aero dependency. Well all have heard dozens of drivers say the aero package got dinged after slight contact and they lost speed, or it wouldn't turn. Was that part of the sport back when? Aero push, lost side force, broken stem epidemic, side pipe tire poppers....no wonder they all demand 'room' to race and freak over contact.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
This.


And I'd only add that aero has always been a factor sine the beginning of racing only it wasn't a know factor.
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Yep, as in has been in F1 and Indy, which instituted push to pass to compensate for the ever enlarging aero dependence. The MORE aero dependant you make a car, the larger the advantage the front car has. It's simple logic.

I was happy to see Brad use the ORIGINAL push to pass last week, even though it was a quarter panel push rather then the bump and run..
 
FenderBumper said:
Yep, as in has been in F1 and Indy, which instituted push to pass to compensate for the ever enlarging aero dependence. The MORE aero dependant you make a car, the larger the advantage the front car has. It's simple logic.

I was happy to see Brad use the ORIGINAL push to pass last week, even though it was a quarter panel push rather then the bump and run..
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That 'push to pass' thingy should only be used on the PlayStation. I'm just sayin.
 
FenderBumper said:
Fans demanded passing during a race. Go figure...
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I'll admit that I don't watch any of the Indy racing other than the Indy 500 but when I first heard of that idea and still today I look at that push to pass as a video game gimmick. Like I mentioned way back when that idea was introduced, how long will it be before they start shooting out that little red turtle to take out their opponent? The idea is sill to me.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'll admit that I don't watch any of the Indy racing other than the Indy 500 but when I first heard of that idea and still today I look at that push to pass as a video game gimmick. Like I mentioned way back when that idea was introduced, how long will it be before they start shooting out that little red turtle to take out their opponent? The idea is sill to me.
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That's what extreme aero dependence does to racing. The guy in front can't be passed by a car that's 2 tenth's faster in the same clean air. Just ask Kasey, who got beat by clean air and old tires on the 20 2 times this year. I'm sure Kasey thought he had the aero deal wrapped up last week, but Brad didn't follow the rules. Brad is right about one thing, there are several drivers in the garage who would have wrecked him for racing as hard for the win as aero forces you to.
 
FenderBumper said:
It's a matter of degree, and I was sure everyone knew nascar's engineers worked and worked on aero dependant devices to make these cars stick. From there, it's simple logic to see the rise of aero dependency. Well all have heard dozens of drivers say the aero package got dinged after slight contact and they lost speed, or it wouldn't turn. Was that part of the sport back when? Aero push, lost side force, broken stem epidemic, side pipe tire poppers....no wonder they all demand 'room' to race and freak over contact.
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Was it part of the sport back when? It depends on what you consider 'back when'. Is 10 years before the COT 'back when'? If so, yes it was happening back when.

Besides, all the things you're talking about have to do with body style. The COT is more about the chassis of the cars than it is about the bodies. The COT is a bigger chassis than the cars before it and is supposed to be safer.
 
FenderBumper said:
That's what extreme aero dependence does to racing. The guy in front can't be passed by a car that's 2 tenth's faster in the same clean air. Just ask Kasey, who got beat by clean air and old tires on the 20 2 times this year. I'm sure Kasey thought he had the aero deal wrapped up last week, but Brad didn't follow the rules. Brad is right about one thing, there are several drivers in the garage who would have wrecked him for racing as hard for the win as aero forces you to.
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So how can we dirty up the cars so that they're not so aero-dependent and drivers can get back to passing and rubbin'?

dpkimmel2001 said:
That 'push to pass' thingy should only be used on the PlayStation. I'm just sayin.
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Yea, when I first heard about it, I was like "I guess the guys in charge of F1 and IndyCars watched all of the Fast and Furious movies and thought the cars should have Nos."
 
SpeedPagan said:
So how can we dirty up the cars so that they're not so aero-dependent and drivers can get back to passing and rubbin'?
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Go back to a valance, ease up on shock and spring rules, lower the rear end and get rid of the giant air dam rear bumper, lose the aero shoulders and use a smaller spoiler. Cars will be slower, and drivers will have to drive the hell out of them to stay out front. Since the cars will be slower, they can be made lighter AND SAFER during door hits. Then Goodyear can use a softer compound that wears out as the drivers are driving the hell out of the car. We'll see tire strategy again. Slope the front, and we'll see the bump and run and no tandem, but a true pack at RP tracks.
 
gordonite said:
Was it part of the sport back when? It depends on what you consider 'back when'. Is 10 years before the COT 'back when'? If so, yes it was happening back when.

Besides, all the things you're talking about have to do with body style. The COT is more about the chassis of the cars than it is about the bodies. The COT is a bigger chassis than the cars before it and is supposed to be safer.
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You ignore the HOW BIG A PART OF THE SPORT. It's all degrees.

It doesn't matter how or why it got like it is, but the CoT is an aero monster. Everyone knows that.
 
FenderBumper said:
You ignore the HOW BIG A PART OF THE SPORT. It's all degrees.
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This is the key. Any time you have 43 machines weighing 3,000+ pounds each traveling at 170+ MPH you're going to be disturbing the air a bunch. But you can't convince me it wasn't less important in the past than it is now. When was the last time the top five cars were separated by a total of only 0.8 seconds 15 laps into a run on a cookie cutter like this?

 
FenderBumper said:
You ignore the HOW BIG A PART OF THE SPORT. It's all degrees.

It doesn't matter how or why it got like it is, but the CoT is an aero monster. Everyone knows that.
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I don't think I was ignoring that but since you seem to have missed it, it's been a BIG PART OF THE SPORT for many years before the COT.

Again, the COT is about the CHASIS, not the body styles. Everyone knows that.
 
FLRacingFan said:
This is the key. Any time you have 43 machines weighing 3,000+ pounds each traveling at 170+ MPH you're going to be disturbing the air a bunch. But you can't convince me it wasn't less important in the past than it is now. When was the last time the top five cars were separated by a total of only 0.8 seconds 15 laps into a run on a cookie cutter like this?

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Good example. It's just common sense, IMO. nascar worked hard on the aero package(and continue to do so) to try and make these cars faster. If you don't have the air (as in not leading), you will be slower.

Perhaps many people are taking 'aero' to mean sleek and slippery. That isn't what it means in todays nascar.
 
gordonite said:
I don't think I was ignoring that but since you seem to have missed it, it's been a BIG PART OF THE SPORT for many years before the COT.

Again, the COT is about the CHASIS, not the body styles. Everyone knows that.
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Body styles? Really???
 
hell, aero is basic physics. Aero or streamlining has always been a factor since cars got faster than about 60, 70 mph. Screw up the Aero and make cars harder to drive? You think there isn't any passing now on super speedways at 200 MPH? You got

racing, you got Aero. Make the cars move less air, (streamline) and you have more passing. You either have to slow them down, buy a smaller slower track or less horsepower or you smooth them up. Another thing..you hear drivers say they can't pass..what

are they supposed to say, the car was slower? not only do you throw the crew under the bus which is going to only bring about a mess, they will say it is the crappy driver, but the Car brand is shown in a bad light. Kurt Bush did that, what happened to

him?Bro Kyle almost lost his ride..so the best thing to say is that you couldn't pass..blame it on the Aero..nothing happens then.
 
FenderBumper said:
Tell me something, what is the MAIN function of the 'aero package' on a GEN6 as opposed to the twisted sister of the 90's?
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I don't know. What's the answer?

edit: By the way, the twisted sister cars were just a few years ago, not the cars of the 90's.
 
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gordonite said:
I don't know. What's the answer?

edit: By the way, the twisted sister cars were just a few years ago, not the cars of the 90's.
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1992-2006 Gen 4 cars also known as the twisted sister era.

The official NASCAR timeline:
Gen 1, the cars from 1948-1966.
Gen 2, 1967-1980.
Gen 3, 1981-1991.
Gen 4, 1992-2006.
Gen 5, 2007-2012.
Gen 6 2013-?
 
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dpkimmel2001 said:
1992-2006 Gen 4 cars also known as the twisted sister era.

The official NASCAR timeline:
Gen 1, the cars from 1948-1966.
Gen 2, 1967-1980.
Gen 3, 1981-1991.
Gen 4, 1992-2006.
Gen 5, 2007-2012.
Gen 6 2013-?
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The only time I ever heard the term twisted sister in describing the cars were when they started slightly offsetting the bodies on the chassis, so the car looked like it was going down the straights slightly sideways. That was just three or four years ago. Before that I never heard the term twisted sister to describe the cars.

Why did they call the cars twisted sister back in the 90's?
 
gordonite said:
The only time I ever heard the term twisted sister in describing the cars were when they started slightly offsetting the bodies on the chassis, so the car looked like it was going down the straights slightly sideways. That was just three or four years ago. Before that I never heard the term twisted sister to describe the cars.

Why did they call the cars twisted sister back in the 90's?
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Thank DW for the name. While it wasn't always called that the teams took those same advantages throughout the years. It for so bad that something was finally done about it.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Thank DW for the name. While it wasn't always called that the teams took those same advantages throughout the years. It for so bad that something was finally done about it.
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I remember a few years ago at the All Star race, it was so bad you could read the car number on the drivers side of the car while they were going past you on the front stretch. :D
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
While it wasn't always called that the teams took those same advantages throughout the years. It for so bad that something was finally done about it.
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OK, I think I get that. It wasn't called twisted sister back then, but what they were doing to the cars during that era that is now called 'twisted sister'?
 
Smoke14 said:
I remember a few years ago at the All Star race, it was so bad you could read the car number on the drivers side of the car while they were going past you on the front stretch. :D
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Hell, if they kept it up, they would have looked as stupid as a late model. all that was left was to get the tire and wheel twisted up into the back seat.o_O
 
gordonite said:
OK, I think I get that. It wasn't called twisted sister back then, but what they were doing to the cars during that era that is now called 'twisted sister'?
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The car of tomorrow, called "the flying brick" replaced the twisted sister. the twisted sister was pretty expensive to make, you had to have various twisted sisters chassis depending on the track. If you notice now, teams will sometimes run a short track chassis or vice versa. They couldn't back then to be competitive
Here is a pretty interesting read.
.http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...echnological-innovations-of-the-last-10-years
 
Great article, Stand.
I remember Evernham once saying HMS put over 1000 hours of R&D into the shocks on the 24 car back in the late 90's. Shock R&D cost was getting crazy back then.
The part about the shaker rigs was interesting. Didn't realize they could simulate any track on the schedule right down to a specific bump on the track.

Good read.
 
Us old farts know quite a bit of stuff from "experience" that the Googlers can't Google and copy because Google doesn't have the information for the googlers to google.
 
Johali said:
Us old farts know quite a bit of stuff from "experience" that the Googlers can't Google and copy because Google doesn't have the information for the googlers to google.
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My head exploded reading that:D

I seen this on the Chive though, thought it was funny.
uploadfromtaptalk1382131908382.jpg

(It's NASCAR related because of his t-shirt;))
 
StandOnIt said:
The car of tomorrow, called "the flying brick" replaced the twisted sister. the twisted sister was pretty expensive to make, you had to have various twisted sisters chassis depending on the track. If you notice now, teams will sometimes run a short track chassis or vice versa. They couldn't back then to be competitive
Here is a pretty interesting read.
.http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...echnological-innovations-of-the-last-10-years
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I mentioned fluid dynamics being used as a means to measure forces and drag, on one of the many oh Bad terrible Aero posts and it was apparent that concept was foo'd foo'd around here as something related to aliens or the tooth fairy. Much more popular to scream..they can't pass like they did in the old days? I think some must be at least a hundred and have a hell of a memory to remember the first Indy race where there wasn't any aero. :)
 
SpeedPagan said:
Yea, when I first heard about it, I was like "I guess the guys in charge of F1 and IndyCars watched all of the Fast and Furious movies and thought the cars should have Nos."
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Except open wheel racing was doing it way before any movie, and it doesn't involve nitrous oxide.

I don't know why NASCAR fans have such a hostility to the push-to-pass mechanic. They have a limited number of uses. It's created exciting racing, both on ovals and especially on road courses. Considering all the bitching I see on a weekly basis here about "boring races" in NASCAR practically every week, maybe NASCAR should consider something similar. It'd be easy to implement now that the cars have an ECU.
 
KevinWI said:
Except open wheel racing was doing it way before any movie, and it doesn't involve nitrous oxide.

I don't know why NASCAR fans have such a hostility to the push-to-pass mechanic. They have a limited number of uses. It's created exciting racing, both on ovals and especially on road courses. Considering all the bitching I see on a weekly basis here about "boring races" in NASCAR practically every week, maybe NASCAR should consider something similar. It'd be easy to implement now that the cars have an ECU.
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I may complain about boring racing but I'd hate to see that. We already have a silly gimmick in Nascar, it's called the Chase.
 
Johali said:
Us old farts know quite a bit of stuff from "experience" that the Googlers can't Google and copy because Google doesn't have the information for the googlers to google.
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Then you should be able to answer FB's question with your "experience"....

What is the MAIN function of the 'aero package' on a GEN6 as opposed to the twisted sister of the 90's?
 
gordonite said:
Then you should be able to answer FB's question with your "experience"....

What is the MAIN function of the 'aero package' on a GEN6 as opposed to the twisted sister of the 90's?
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I didn't say we knew everything, just a lot of stuff the googleraniac's don't have a clue about but I know the answer to fixing the aero package, take the rear windows out.
 
Johali said:
I didn't say we knew everything just a lot of stuff the googleraniac's don't have a clue about but I know the answer to fixing the aero package, take the rear windows out.
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Be right back... Google/nascar/rear window/aero package/search. ;)
 
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