SILLY SEASON 2018

StandOnIt said:
Although some organizations have downsized recently due the rising costs of racing, Haas has no plans of eliminating any of his four Cup squads.

“I think, financially, running four teams makes sense, because with this new charter system we’re paid money to run the cars not only from NASCAR (purses) but with our relationship with Ford,” Haas said.

https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-c...d-look-dramatically-different-in-2018-924200/
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"I have no plans on working past the age of 60!" - Allenbaba.

***Age 59 rolls around, I don't have enough money to retire, so I end up working well past the age of 60.***

I agree with his quote. Financially, running 4 teams makes sense based on the agreement with Ford and the charter system. However...if he doesn't have sufficient sponsorship...running 4 cars makes ZERO financial sense. Right now, June 29th, he doesn't have sufficient sponsorship to run 4 cars. And he will not foot the bill if that's the case in February 2018. He'll choose to downsize, and his quote will be "I think, financially, running two cars makes sense, because we can no longer afford to run four."
 
DanicaFreak said:
I have a feeling that another sponsor or her current sponsors will up the ante this year. I really think she runs out her contract in '18 and then retires. I hope with a win and.or a couple top 5s. Results have been happening of late, I just hope its not too late
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I'll say this...she has had some terrible terrible luck lately, she's had a few solid runs going and has been taken out by not of her doing.
 
Allenbaba said:
"I have no plans on working past the age of 60!" - Allenbaba.

***Age 59 rolls around, I don't have enough money to retire, so I end up working well past the age of 60.***

I agree with his quote. Financially, running 4 teams makes sense based on the agreement with Ford and the charter system. However...if he doesn't have sufficient sponsorship...running 4 cars makes ZERO financial sense. Right now, June 29th, he doesn't have sufficient sponsorship to run 4 cars. And he will not foot the bill if that's the case in February 2018. He'll choose to downsize, and his quote will be "I think, financially, running two cars makes sense, because we can no longer afford to run four."
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Respect. This is why I hope something happens...like a 'toyna win or Watkins Glen win and then Patrick can choose to funded for however the long she wants.
 
Allenbaba said:
"I have no plans on working past the age of 60!" - Allenbaba.

***Age 59 rolls around, I don't have enough money to retire, so I end up working well past the age of 60.***

I agree with his quote. Financially, running 4 teams makes sense based on the agreement with Ford and the charter system. However...if he doesn't have sufficient sponsorship...running 4 cars makes ZERO financial sense. Right now, June 29th, he doesn't have sufficient sponsorship to run 4 cars. And he will not foot the bill if that's the case in February 2018. He'll choose to downsize, and his quote will be "I think, financially, running two cars makes sense, because we can no longer afford to run four."
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you don't have a clue how much funding he gets and neither do I. but go ahead and call the man a lair.
 
“If we can have a driver that wins races — and with a reasonable sponsor — all the teams can be profitable. And that’s what we’re here for is to try to make a little money at this.” Gene Haas

And there you have your Paul Harvey moment as if Gene can have 4 drivers that run consistently well and can win races, reasonable sponsorship for all 4 cars then it makes economic sense to field 4 cars. The flip side is that if you have 4 teams with reasonable sponsorship for 2 cars it doesn't make sense to run 4 cars.
 
StandOnIt said:
you don't have a clue how much funding he gets and neither do I. but go ahead and call the man a lair.
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No one is calling anyone a liar or accusing them of having a lair either. Gene Haas is not going to come out and say that as of today things look really sketchy for his company to field 4 teams as that would be poisoning the well. He has to put the best spin on things and give the impression that he will field 4 teams but if the time comes and he doesn't have sufficient sponsorship he can simply fall back on "things didn't line up properly this year."
 
It's questionable how much the manufacturers will continue to fund race teams at current levels,not just the sponsors.Sedan car sales have plummeted to levels catching the manufacturers off guard.No manufacturer has escaped this problem.Toyota is spending millions to upgrade their Kentucky plant which is running at only 80% capacity to make more than just sedans there as reported by Bloomberg.Toyota is predicting their 2nd straight profit decline for the first time since 1994.I know on my street it used to be a pickup and sedan in every driveway,now it's a pickup and SUV/crossover.Everyone I know that has made the switch from sedan to SUV aren't going back,they love the room,seating position,good gas mileage also.
 
darlingtonfan said:
It's questionable how much the manufacturers will continue to fund race teams at current levels,not just the sponsors.Sedan car sales have plummeted to levels catching the manufacturers off guard.No manufacturer has escaped this problem.Toyota is spending millions to upgrade their Kentucky plant which is running at only 80% capacity to make more than just sedans there as reported by Bloomberg.Toyota is predicting their 2nd straight profit decline for the first time since 1994.I know on my street it used to be a pickup and sedan in every driveway,now it's a pickup and SUV/crossover.Everyone I know that has made the switch from sedan to SUV aren't going back,they love the room,seating position,good gas mileage also.
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I don't think the manufacturers are in NASCAR to sell sedans.
 
We may soon have Trucks in its series, SUVs in Xfinity and Sedans in Cup
OR not. SUVs could be the new Truck Series. It really wouldn't matter because I don't know anyone who has bought a race truck since NoNeck.
 
With Jamie Mac staying at Gannassi I could see Brennan Poole landing a decent-mid tier cup ride next season because of the sponsorship he brings. And he's a solid driver
 
Allenbaba said:
Honestly, if Kurt can't work out a deal with SHR, he might be in trouble. I just don't see another landing spot for him. The #1? RCR? All seem like long shots. 77 isn't an option for him even if he wanted it.
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Can you share why he isn't welcome back at Furniture Row? Kurt had a great year in the 78 but I don't see why Barney Visser would fault him for going to SHR.
 
Kurt's a wheelman and no matter if he has a bad attitude or not, he could find a ride anyday of the week. He fits the bad boy image anyway that a lot of people in the sport supposedly say we need.
 
AuzGrams said:
Kurt's a wheelman and no matter if he has a bad attitude or not, he could find a ride anyday of the week. He fits the bad boy image anyway that a lot of people in the sport supposedly say we need.
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Nobody denies Kurt's ability to drive but it's a marketing driven sport and the sad truth is that the minute Kurt's skills begin to decline he is probably done. Kurt won't be a guy who races till he's 45 like Biffle or Kenseth - at 38 he is already in danger of being relegated to a second tier team or leaving the sport all together if things don't work out sponsor wise at SHR. I hate it but it's just how it is.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
With Jamie Mac staying at Gannassi I could see Brennan Poole landing a decent-mid tier cup ride next season because of the sponsorship he brings. And he's a solid driver
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Meh. I don't think many of these Xfinity drivers will amount to crap in Cup besides Byron, Hemric, and maybe Custer.
 
Cholo said:
Nobody denies Kurt's ability to drive but it's a marketing driven sport and the sad truth is that the minute Kurt's skills begin to decline he is probably done. Kurt won't be a guy who races till he's 45 like Biffle or Kenseth - at 38 he is already in danger of being relegated to a second tier team or leaving the sport all together if things don't work out sponsor wise at SHR. I hate it but it's just how it is.
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he married well though.:growl:
 
AuzGrams said:
Meh. I don't think many of these Xfinity drivers will amount to crap in Cup besides Byron, Hemric, and maybe Custer.
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Doesn't matter. $$ talks. Poole has it. Somebody will hire him.
 
Cholo said:
Can you share why he isn't welcome back at Furniture Row? Kurt had a great year in the 78 but I don't see why Barney Visser would fault him for going to SHR.
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Both of them, Kurt & Barney, handled that situation poorly. There's no bad blood, they get along fine when they see each other, I just don't think it'll ever work again (for other reasons too...$$). Barney definitely understands why Kurt left. He doesn't fault him at all - just like Kurt shouldn't fault Barney for not wanting a guy with a proven track record of bailing on him. Two way street.
 
Wasn’t hirin’ Busch ‘n sponsorin’ a fourth team as much to make the point with Stewart that Haas still ran things as much anything else?

Busch just went for the money.
 
R Clarence said:
Wasn’t hirin’ Busch ‘n sponsorin’ a fourth team as much to make the point with Stewart that Haas still ran things as much anything else?

Busch just went for the money.
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Yes, the 41 car was Gene making a statement. As for money, both salaries were comparable. KB went to SHR because at the time, they were considered a "real" team (not just from a competition standpoint, but also from a merchandising standpoint, manufacturer relationship standpoint etc). FRR was still more a "hobby" at the time, while SHR was in the business of NASCAR. That was Kurt's main motivation. The 78 has had so much recent success it's easy to forget that just 3-4 seasons ago, they were still that "little single car team from Denver" underdog story.
 
Kurt leaving FRR really set into line a bunch of dominos falling. If Kurt stays at FRR and Truex doesn't immediately find a post-MWR ride and who knows where he ends up and where he is now. Kurt in the FRR Toyota would've been interesting.
 
Allenbaba said:
Yes, the 41 car was Gene making a statement. As for money, both salaries were comparable. KB went to SHR because at the time, they were considered a "real" team (not just from a competition standpoint, but also from a merchandising standpoint, manufacturer relationship standpoint etc). FRR was still more a "hobby" at the time, while SHR was in the business of NASCAR. That was Kurt's main motivation. The 78 has had so much recent success it's easy to forget that just 3-4 seasons ago, they were still that "little single car team from Denver" underdog story.
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I would hope there are no bad feelings either way....... because at the time....... they both needed one another.....Barney was struggling..... sponsoring his own team out of his own pocket .... which is a monumental task all in itself..... Kurt was acting like a jackass and had been fired from every driving job he had acquired..... because of being a typical ''Busch''...... they both accidentally landed together because of fate....... I never had a lick of use for Kurt.... but...... during that stint with FFR.....I finally began to have some respect for him. He seemed to come of age....... finally....... I can understand why he went to SHR...... but..... I can also understand why Barney would be upset..... to me.. loyalty means a lot if someone gave me a second chance.... which Barney did for him. I am so glad that Truex has stepped up to the plate and showed that what Kurt did wasn't just a fluke.... I was afraid that he wouldn't and everyone would praise Kurt and blame Truex........ I am really happy for that FRR team..... they have hung in there and are a threat each and every week........
 
Ricky Craven at ESPN is proposing a trade of Kasey Kane to Jack Roush for Ricky Stenhouse.That would be kind of like the pro sports where the richest teams end up with the best players,Brian should love that.
 
Allenbaba said:
Yes, the 41 car was Gene making a statement. As for money, both salaries were comparable. KB went to SHR because at the time, they were considered a "real" team (not just from a competition standpoint, but also from a merchandising standpoint, manufacturer relationship standpoint etc). FRR was still more a "hobby" at the time, while SHR was in the business of NASCAR. That was Kurt's main motivation. The 78 has had so much recent success it's easy to forget that just 3-4 seasons ago, they were still that "little single car team from Denver" underdog story.
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Thanks for the info. I remember being thrilled Kurt went to SHR even though I really pulled for FRR. It was a small time team, I drove from El Paso to Texas Motor Speedway and it damn near took me as long to find any 78 merchandise as it did to drive there. Finally found it in a trailer with a bunch of other random drivers and they had one type of hat and a couple shirts to pick from. Now 78 gear is everywhere.
 
darlingtonfan said:
Ricky Craven at ESPN is proposing a trade of Kasey Kane to Jack Roush for Ricky Stenhouse.That would be kind of like the pro sports where the richest teams end up with the best players,Brian should love that.
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I just dont see ricky stenhouse being that good of a driver. I know, he's won 2 races this year (Talladega and Daytona)

but I just dont see him as impressive. I mean he only had 1 top 10 since his Talladega win
 
I really think that it's time that we stop dismissing plate wins as "talentless" wins. Plate racing is a style of racing, much like road course racing, where guys who do not do well at other tracks sometimes excel. The ability to read the draft and know where to put your car is an incredible skill. Pack racing takes talent, it just isn't a talent that helps you outside of 4 races a year.
 
With Hamlin, Blaney, Keneseth, Ku. Busch, Larson, Keslowski, Earnhardt, Harvick, Truex ‘n Logano in the garage when Stenhouse took the win, I’ll reserve judgment on his extraordinary plate racing talent for another day.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I really think that it's time that we stop dismissing plate wins as "talentless" wins. Plate racing is a style of racing, much like road course racing, where guys who do not do well at other tracks sometimes excel. The ability to read the draft and know where to put your car is an incredible skill. Pack racing takes talent, it just isn't a talent that helps you outside of 4 races a year.
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Agreed, and owners and sponsors certainly dont dismiss them. Stenhouse has proven he can win at the restrictor plates and the biggest race in NASCAR just happens to be one. I think Ryan Reed will have a Cup ride just because of his record at Daytona. If a guy can win a restrictor plate tracks he'll have a ride.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I really think that it's time that we stop dismissing plate wins as "talentless" wins. Plate racing is a style of racing, much like road course racing, where guys who do not do well at other tracks sometimes excel. The ability to read the draft and know where to put your car is an incredible skill. Pack racing takes talent, it just isn't a talent that helps you outside of 4 races a year.
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I would not say that winning at plate tracks does not require talent but the men that have only won at or primarily only won at plate tracks will always be looked at differently. David Ragan, Jimmy Spencer, Michael Waltrip, Ricky Stenhouse, Aric Almirola, Trevor Bayne, Phil Parsons, John Andretti, Ken Schrader, Ward Burton and Brian Vickers bear witness to that, IMO.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I would not say that winning at plate tracks does not require talent but the men that have only won at or primarily only won at plate tracks will always be looked at differently. David Ragan, Jimmy Spencer, Michael Waltrip, Ricky Stenhouse, Aric Almirola, Trevor Bayne, Phil Parsons, John Andretti, Ken Schrader, Ward Burton and Brian Vickers bear witness to that, IMO.
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Brian Vickers won at New Hampshire and Michigan as well. Without his blood clot issues he would likely have won more. I'd hardly include him as an example to make your point.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I would not say that winning at plate tracks does not require talent but the men that have only won at or primarily only won at plate tracks will always be looked at differently. David Ragan, Jimmy Spencer, Michael Waltrip, Ricky Stenhouse, Aric Almirola, Trevor Bayne, Phil Parsons, John Andretti, Ken Schrader, Ward Burton and Brian Vickers bear witness to that, IMO.
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A few points:

- Brian Vickers and Ricky Stenhouse are former NASCAR Xfinity Series Champions. Vickers also won at Loudon and Chicagoland.

- Ward Burton had 5 career wins, only one came at the plate track.

- Ken Schrader had 4 career wins, only one came at a plate track.

- John Andretti also won at Martinsville

- Jimmy Spencer had short track racing success outside of Cup, he just couldn't pull it together for Cup. Outside of his 1994 wins, Spencer showed no special aptitude for plate racing.

Michael Waltrip, Aric Almirola, and David Ragan are basically akin to a Robby Gordon, Marcos Ambrose, or any other road course guy that did really well at road courses but had limited success elsewhere. They are/were VERY good at their specialty but average at best elsewhere.
 
The Nature Boy said:
A few points:

- Brian Vickers and Ricky Stenhouse are former NASCAR Xfinity Series Champions. Vickers also won at Loudon and Chicagoland.

- Ward Burton had 5 career wins, only one came at the plate track.

- Ken Schrader had 4 career wins, only one came at a plate track.

- John Andretti also won at Martinsville

- Jimmy Spencer had short track racing success outside of Cup, he just couldn't pull it together for Cup. Outside of his 1994 wins, Spencer showed no special aptitude for plate racing.

Michael Waltrip, Aric Almirola, and David Ragan are basically akin to a Robby Gordon, Marcos Ambrose, or any other road course guy that did really well at road courses but had limited success elsewhere. They are/were VERY good at their specialty but average at best elsewhere.
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Whatever the case may be it seems like the skill set needed to win at plate tracks is much easier to learn than the other types of tracks Nascar races on. I always liked Kenny Schrader's comment about success and plate racing: "I dunno.....I'm just the monkey in the seat."
 
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