SILLY SEASON 2019

BobbyFord said:
I don’t see them moving Denny anywhere yet. He’s a top ten driver.[/QUOTE
Kenneth was also a top 10 driver. What makes you believe they wouldn’t vacate Hamlin to bring in Bell who is better, AND cheaper. Hamlin has done nothing but whine and bring negative attention to Jibbs for the past 3 years. It’s time for Denny to leave.
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Greg saine said:
I think in peoples eyes the reason why they feel he stabbed Barney in the back is because they were going to run next year and work with what they had if he stayed. He left which is why Barney closed. He is the sole reason many won’t have jobs so you have to look at it from both stand points. People that moved their lives to work in the shop in Denver now will have no jobs but on MTJ side he did what was best for him. Just because they run next year wasn’t guaranteed him a job next year at this time. I saw first hand how JGR pulled apart the pit crew from last year to make the 78 team not beat them this year so my opinion is he will continue to give his star KB the best team and equipment. If he went to SHR he would be second best there behind KH. I just can’t see any other place he could move to that was better then what he had going. Again, my opinion. But, I get it...he is going for what he thinks is best for him. Good luck to him...hope it works out!
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It may not be a popular opinion, but loyalty still stands for something in my book. It has gone a LONG way for me in my career, and it worked for me in my short life as a race mechanic. IF, and it's an IF Visser was prepared to largely eat the cost difference for another year to field the 78 team, I feel like Truex owed him ONE year. After that, if the team couldn't continue the way it was, then I would have no issue with him moving on. If the team could have stayed together into next season, there is always a chance a sponsor to cover all or at least much of the shortfall might have been found, especially if the team does well in the playoffs. There is also a better chance that the team could have been sold intact or merged into another organization. Where would Truex be without Barney Visser? At the time, what team was going to hire him that was even capable of winning a race?
 
spindoc said:
Kenneth was also a top 10 driver. What makes you believe they wouldn’t vacate Hamlin to bring in Bell who is better, AND cheaper. Hamlin has done nothing but whine and bring negative attention to Jibbs for the past 3 years. It’s time for Denny to leave.
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AFAIK, Denny is signed for at least as long as Truex will be there.
 
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I truly think this signing of MTJ might come at an expense of Bell. He may move on....by the time guys like Gilliland are ready....Denny Mtj might move on.
 
BobbyFord said:
I think the addition of MTJ/Pearn only strengthens JGR and I feel that is their current focus.
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Obviously I don't know him, but I always got the impression that Cole didn't play well with others when it came to sharing info. Wasn't there an interview a while back with someone from FRR that said that Cole was actually fired from FRR at one point in time, eventually coming back a couple years later?
 
wi_racefan said:
Obviously I don't know him, but I always got the impression that Cole didn't play well with others when it came to sharing info. Wasn't there an interview a while back with someone from FRR that said that Cole was actually fired from FRR at one point in time, eventually coming back a couple years later?
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Cole worked for a one car team. That’s no longer the case, he’ll be in-house.
 
So late yesterday i seen a post on fb (i know not very reliable) that said Matt D was at larsons go kart racebut then was told to head back to NC to meet with some team. Has anyone heard anything? the post said it was a much better team the gofas (which would be alot of them IMO)
 
Denny is signed thru the end of 2020. So I'm not sure what Bell is doing, Gilliland is still 3-4 years from Cup.

I like Bell and think he should move to the 41 if possible.
 
Formerjackman said:
It may not be a popular opinion, but loyalty still stands for something in my book. It has gone a LONG way for me in my career, and it worked for me in my short life as a race mechanic. IF, and it's an IF Visser was prepared to largely eat the cost difference for another year to field the 78 team, I feel like Truex owed him ONE year. After that, if the team couldn't continue the way it was, then I would have no issue with him moving on. If the team could have stayed together into next season, there is always a chance a sponsor to cover all or at least much of the shortfall might have been found, especially if the team does well in the playoffs. There is also a better chance that the team could have been sold intact or merged into another organization. Where would Truex be without Barney Visser? At the time, what team was going to hire him that was even capable of winning a race?
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I respectfully disagree with much of this. It's easy to look at history and think that Barney did MTJ the favor by giving him a ride, but the reality is it was the other way around. Barney had no driver lined up when MTJ became available. Zero. He made three different offers to other drivers who all turned him down, including Juan Pablo. FRR had no idea what to do in terms of a driver and was in full panic mode. They were literally looking in the Truck series for unsigned guys. Fact. Barney had no sponsor other than himself, and no real money to offer anyone. And FRR still had exactly one win under their belt, the fuel strategy win by Regan Smith. Kurt Busch did incredible things there, but let's please not be revisionists, FRR was not considered a top team. Despite all that, MTJ turned down other opportunities and went to FRR for pennies. They finished 24th that first year (or something like that).

MTJ brought Bass Pro to FRR (big outside dollars, Barney's first) and was able to get them more TRD support (Toyota loves him, as MTJ has given much to them). Cole suddenly had real budgets to work with. And it started paying off. They started really running up front (it was also the Toyota era in NASCAR, so that certainly helped!)

Despite going to TWO final fours at Homestead, winning double digit races, winning a CHAMPIONSHIP, MTJ still made pennies compared to most driver salaries. And despite what the other poster keeps writing, they were not going to run next season unless they found more money (where would they even get their equipment?). That's simply a fact. There was no plan B that anyone in the know was taking seriously. They needed between 5-10 million just to consider keeping it going, and found zero. BUT, just for the sake of this discussion, let's pretend that Barney was willing to cut his budget in half and keep racing. And let's pretend that quality chassis would have appeared out of thin air since there would not be a JGR relationship (he couldn't afford their ridiculous markup). Or better yet, let's pretend that nothing at all changed. FRR was still able to compete at a high level AND retain all their talent. But, MTJ (and Cole for that matter) were still making below average salaries for their positions. At what point is Barney being disloyal to them????

Look, I have had a long standing personal and business relationship with Barney, and I love the guy. He's an incredible human being and a role model. I like MTJ, but in reality I don't really care much about him either way. If I truly believed he was screwing Barney, or being disloyal to Barney, I'd say it in a heartbeat. I have a zillion reasons to defend Barney, and almost no reasons to side with MTJ. But the truth is, MTJ has contributed infinitely more to the "relationship" than Barney has, and as far as I'm concerned owes FRR absolutely nothing.
 
NascarUnderdogs said:
So late yesterday i seen a post on fb (i know not very reliable) that said Matt D was at larsons go kart racebut then was told to head back to NC to meet with some team. Has anyone heard anything? the post said it was a much better team the gofas (which would be alot of them IMO)
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That be cool, but I'll believe it when I see it. I can't see what team be much better then GoFas that would come calling. Maybe Front Row? But they aren't that much of a step up.
 
AuzGrams said:
Denny is signed thru the end of 2020. So I'm not sure what Bell is doing, Gilliland is still 3-4 years from Cup.

I like Bell and think he should move to the 41 if possible.
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bell should stay in bush league for at least another year.
 
StandOnIt said:
not really, Harvick was talking about the of ages of the current owners when he asked the question "will their kids want to run a race team"
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Harvick referred to owning a team as a money burning engine or something to that effect in his comments in his comments. Also, refer to the following:
Allenbaba said:
And despite what the other poster keeps writing, they were not going to run next season unless they found more money (where would they even get their equipment?). That's simply a fact. There was no plan B that anyone in the know was taking seriously. They needed between 5-10 million just to consider keeping it going, and found zero. BUT, just for the sake of this discussion, let's pretend that Barney was willing to cut his budget in half and keep racing. And let's pretend that quality chassis would have appeared out of thin air since there would not be a JGR relationship (he couldn't afford their ridiculous markup). Or better yet, let's pretend that nothing at all changed. FRR was still able to compete at a high level AND retain all their talent.
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Your personal biases against Gibbs isn't going to change the facts surrounding the situation. Barney wasn't going into his pocket anymore and the sponsorship was gone. No money = No team budget = Doors at FFR closing.
 
NascarUnderdogs said:
So late yesterday i seen a post on fb (i know not very reliable) that said Matt D was at larsons go kart racebut then was told to head back to NC to meet with some team. Has anyone heard anything? the post said it was a much better team the gofas (which would be alot of them IMO)
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DiBurrito to the 5!
 
Allenbaba said:
I respectfully disagree with much of this. It's easy to look at history and think that Barney did MTJ the favor by giving him a ride, but the reality is it was the other way around. Barney had no driver lined up when MTJ became available. Zero. He made three different offers to other drivers who all turned him down, including Juan Pablo. FRR had no idea what to do in terms of a driver and was in full panic mode. They were literally looking in the Truck series for unsigned guys. Fact. Barney had no sponsor other than himself, and no real money to offer anyone. And FRR still had exactly one win under their belt, the fuel strategy win by Regan Smith. Kurt Busch did incredible things there, but let's please not be revisionists, FRR was not considered a top team. Despite all that, MTJ turned down other opportunities and went to FRR for pennies. They finished 24th that first year (or something like that).

MTJ brought Bass Pro to FRR (big outside dollars, Barney's first) and was able to get them more TRD support (Toyota loves him, as MTJ has given much to them). Cole suddenly had real budgets to work with. And it started paying off. They started really running up front (it was also the Toyota era in NASCAR, so that certainly helped!)

Despite going to TWO final fours at Homestead, winning double digit races, winning a CHAMPIONSHIP, MTJ still made pennies compared to most driver salaries. And despite what the other poster keeps writing, they were not going to run next season unless they found more money (where would they even get their equipment?). That's simply a fact. There was no plan B that anyone in the know was taking seriously. They needed between 5-10 million just to consider keeping it going, and found zero. BUT, just for the sake of this discussion, let's pretend that Barney was willing to cut his budget in half and keep racing. And let's pretend that quality chassis would have appeared out of thin air since there would not be a JGR relationship (he couldn't afford their ridiculous markup). Or better yet, let's pretend that nothing at all changed. FRR was still able to compete at a high level AND retain all their talent. But, MTJ (and Cole for that matter) were still making below average salaries for their positions. At what point is Barney being disloyal to them????

Look, I have had a long standing personal and business relationship with Barney, and I love the guy. He's an incredible human being and a role model. I like MTJ, but in reality I don't really care much about him either way. If I truly believed he was screwing Barney, or being disloyal to Barney, I'd say it in a heartbeat. I have a zillion reasons to defend Barney, and almost no reasons to side with MTJ. But the truth is, MTJ has contributed infinitely more to the "relationship" than Barney has, and as far as I'm concerned owes FRR absolutely nothing.
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My post was based on what we thought we knew, subject to more information coming forward. My understanding of the situation for 2019 was that IF Barney picked up the tab, that would INCLUDE the JGR alliance. If that is NOT the case, then that changes the whole equation. You obviously would know much better than I, but I just don't remember MTJ having a bunch of job offers when he went to FRR. Whatever offers were made, it must have been REALLY off the radar. If there were other offers, I'm curious as hell to know who they were, because FRR, while showing some signs of life with Kurt Busch, was a LONG SHOT by any stretch of the imagination, especially when there was no JRG alliance when he got there. That had to be a REAL leap of faith for him to go with that team if he had "better" offers. As for Joe Gibbs, I don't know what you think about everything from his side of the deal, but the public perception is just AWFUL, and I'm surprised how often that team and their drivers seem to get themselves into situations that look really bad from a PR standpoint. Whether it's true or not, the perception is that JGR was basically trying to run FRR out of business, and I don't even see any effort on their part to offer their side of the story. If the exponential increase in fees is accurate, you have to ask yourself what the objective was. They had to know, (or should have known) that Barney wasn't going to pay it, and I seriously doubt anybody could afford to pay that amount either, so that leaves us only with the conclusion that JGR was trying to whack their customer for their own gain. Did HMS run off SHR after SHR whipped their ass for the SECOND time?
 
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AuzGrams said:
Chevy and Ford should be thanking Toyota, Toyota has far and away done more development for drivers than anybody else lately. This coming from a Chevrolet fan.
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I get that Toyota is the new golden child but Chevy and Ford owe them nothing.They were here along with all other manufacturers who are now gone from the beginning and built NASCAR from the ground up.Toyota was still recovering from the war and I know we helped them rebuild as a nation.So no,they owe them squat.
If anything Toyota owes those manufacturers for doing the grunt work so they can have an arena to advertise their products.
 
Formerjackman said:
My post was based on what we thought we knew, subject to more information coming forward. My understanding of the situation for 2019 was that IF Barney picked up the tab, that would INCLUDE the JGR alliance. If that is NOT the case, then that changes the whole equation. You obviously would know much better than I, but I just don't remember MTJ having a bunch of job offers when he went to FRR. Whatever offers were made, it must have been REALLY off the radar. If there were other offers, I'm curious as hell to know who they were, because FRR, while showing some signs of life with Kurt Busch, was a LONG SHOT by any stretch of the imagination, especially when there was no JRG alliance when he got there. That had to be a REAL leap of faith for him to go with that team if he had "better" offers. As for Joe Gibbs, I don't know what you think about everything from his side of the deal, but the public perception is just AWFUL, and I'm surprised how often that team and their drivers seem to get themselves into situations that look really bad from a PR standpoint. Whether it's true or not, the perception is that JGR was basically trying to run FRR out of business, and I don't even see any effort on their part to offer their side of the story. If the exponential increase in fees is accurate, you have to ask yourself what the objective was. They had to know, (or should have known) that Barney wasn't going to pay it, and I seriously doubt anybody could afford to pay that amount either, so that leaves us only with the conclusion that JGR was trying to whack their customer for their own gain. Did HMS run off SHR after SHR whipped their ass for the SECOND time?
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Yes, Barney was paying the tab to JGR. How else would he run??? That’s how he gets his pit crew and cars. He was going to pull the money with a strict budget and pay the difference. If MTJ stayed bass pro and Auto’s were still there. Cut the budget 5 million and run which bought them more time to find a sponsor. That’s why he would only do a 1 year deal because he wasn’t going to sign knowing he was paying out of his pocket. They presented this deal and Toyota’s deadline was up. MTJ didn’t sign and they missed the deadline with Toyota so they started packing up and pulling out. 4 days later is when MTJ signed with JGR then the day after that all the guys at the track were told they are closing. 3 days later the announcement came. If you look at the timeline you can’t say Barney wasn’t going to run when just 2 weeks prior to that he announced to his shop that they would run next year. But, he was banking on MTJ staying because that’s what MTJ told him.
 
Wood Brothers 2019 plans... same as 2018. Same driver, crew chief, sponsors, manufacturer, and Penske technical alliance. No surprise, but it's always good to hear their full-time status is confirmed. Link.

I guess The Captain decided to hold off on jacking that technical alliance fee over the moon... just sayin'.
 
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