Silly Season 2023

Then why did Furniture Row go to Toyota in the first place, and why didn't they go back to Chevy?
Because it is a family business and there was opposition against him spending more for Nascar. By going to Toyota much of his cost was cut and he was fine until Joe doubled the costs.
 
I'm not calling Kyle to Kaulig but let's not forget Kyle said he wanted to have something signed in the next 7 to 10 days. No where in that did he said when he'd let us know. Contracts are strange and sometimes due to sponsor obligations things can't be announced.

Look how long it took to announce Kenseth to JGR. We all knew he wasn't going back to Roush. For whatever reason it took him forever to actually be able to man an announcement that he was doing next season.

An October 1st announcement seems to me like they have a contract restriction that they have to wait until the end of September.

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Because it is a family business and there was opposition against him spending more for Nascar. By going to Toyota much of his cost was cut and he was fine until Joe doubled the costs.
Costs initially cut, and the allegedly JGR raises costs....Should put him back at what he was paying for Chevy. I mean I love the logic that surrounds all of this. The more people talk about the atrocities of JGR and Furniture Row, the sillier it gets.
I think KB going to 23XI at this point would be the least exciting change. It's almost lateral and out of all potential changes, certainly sounds the least significant/fireworky.

Blow it up. Go to RCR, Kaulig, Jr Motorsports in cup, bring in Dodge. Hell, end up back at HMS. This has been such a fun free agency, let's get some chaos!
Torn on this. I agree that 23XI would be the most lateral, but that is a fun new team. It might be interesting, however, to see if the narrative around here changes with a change in OEM. I want him back, but I am ready if he launches.
Given that Kaulig is announcing something WAY out a full month from now tells me they are out of the KDB sweepstakes (based on Kyle’s one more week timeline for his announcement). That leaves RCR and 23XI, with EITHER move requiring changes for an available seat. KDB alluded to dominos that will fall after his decision. Brother Kurt? Reddick? Something’s gotta give!

Wild silly season.
I can't see RCR. Just can't. Why the hell would you go to that mess? Plus, Poop Poop says he couldn't afford Reddick, but he can afford KFB? Makes no sense. I don't see KFB as a Toyota lock, but I wonder what the conversation sounded like between Denny and MJ.....MJ talks championships, and KFB is a champion with something to prove.

I have said from the beginning that in the absence of absolute cash, somebody is going to have to offer something in terms of security for his family. I wonder about 23XI with Rowdy sponsorship....maybe a stake in the team.....keeps Kurt in house.....stays with Toyota.....maybe some future opportunity to take KBM to Cup. I am not sure that going over to Chevy to play JV to Hendrick is going to get Kyle that....nor going to Kaulig....like I said RCR.
 
I just liked the old business model a lot more. Put the tools out there and let the teams fight it out. I totally get the economics of it, but I despise the single source engine suppliers and I despise all the satellite teams being beholden to just one mothership team like JGR. It may be good business, but it sucks as a sport. Most of you know that I LOVE sports car racing, but I truly HATE the current IMSA model. I LOVED Grand Am, because you would go to a chassis manufacurer, buy what you wanted and then align yourself with an engine brand and go racing. Want to run a Porsche V8 and Porsche doesn't want to support it? Do it anyway and pay for it yourself. Want to switch from a Riley to a Dallara mid- season? Just do it. Now, you can't even run a manufacturer unless they are an official sponsor of the series, and you can't get a car unless they want you to have one. For years you would have 30 Porsche GT cars at Daytona and only 2 Corvettes, because Chevy absolutely kept a lid on EVERYTHING. Thats bad for the sport in my opinion, and is why sports car racing crashes and burns every decade or so. It may have eventually happened anyway, but Toyota brought a business model to NASCAR that I didn't like, and I'll always hate them for it.
Corvette will be selling customer cars within two years fwiw, as a result of the regulations.
 
I can't see RCR. Just can't. Why the hell would you go to that mess? Plus, Poop Poop says he couldn't afford Reddick, but he can afford KFB? Makes no sense. I don't see KFB as a Toyota lock, but I wonder what the conversation sounded like between Denny and MJ.....MJ talks championships, and KFB is a champion with something to prove.

I have said from the beginning that in the absence of absolute cash, somebody is going to have to offer something in terms of security for his family. I wonder about 23XI with Rowdy sponsorship....maybe a stake in the team.....keeps Kurt in house.....stays with Toyota.....maybe some future opportunity to take KBM to Cup. I am not sure that going over to Chevy to play JV to Hendrick is going to get Kyle that....nor going to Kaulig....like I said RCR.
MJ might want championships but he's also a business man and I don't think he's willing to just throw a ton of his own money in to try to win a championship given how much of a crap shoot the way the championship is decided. I guess he could sponsor the car through his own brands and it wouldn't be as much of a personal financial hit.

You can throw a ton of money at trying to win a championship, but one bad day at the final race means you finish 4th in the standings.

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Corvette will be selling customer cars within two years fwiw, as a result of the regulations.
Yes, ONLY because of a rules change. They have had 23 years to sell customer cars in the US and have refused to do so. They even ran off the one guy that tried to do it in his own. That's a bull**** way to operate and I told Doug Fehan that personally back in 2013, not that it was HIS decision to make.
 
Come on man you aren't 18.....I don't think. If what people say around here is true? Who are you listening to? .....and behavior in the boardroom is different than behavior elsewhere. The rules of business are to destroy the competition and make as much money as you can. You operate that with people, and you are a prick. You base your perceptions on bull**** here....bad move.

Remind me to NEVER do business with you. As I said, ethics are ethics. There is no morality free zone.
 
I can't see RCR. Just can't. Why the hell would you go to that mess? Plus, Poop Poop says he couldn't afford Reddick, but he can afford KFB? Makes no sense. I don't see KFB as a Toyota lock, but I wonder what the conversation sounded like between Denny and MJ.....MJ talks championships, and KFB is a champion with something to prove.

I have said from the beginning that in the absence of absolute cash, somebody is going to have to offer something in terms of security for his family. I wonder about 23XI with Rowdy sponsorship....maybe a stake in the team.....keeps Kurt in house.....stays with Toyota.....maybe some future opportunity to take KBM to Cup. I am not sure that going over to Chevy to play JV to Hendrick is going to get Kyle that....nor going to Kaulig....like I said RCR.
Your reasoning is in part why my prediction is that he goes to 23XI: the question nobody can answer is IF Kurt is going to retire due to his injury? It’s understandable, and would open the seat to KDB, but they’d still have to purchase an additional charter to bring Reddick in for the following year.
 
I don’t understand how Kyle can go to 23xi with his current Rowdy Energy business, pretty sure monster is signed multi year with Kurt and 23xi

I am sure Monster wouldn’t want to share sponsorship with a competitor, unless monster buys Rowdy energy
 
I don’t understand how Kyle can go to 23xi with his current Rowdy Energy business, pretty sure monster is signed multi year with Kurt and 23xi

I am sure Monster wouldn’t want to share sponsorship with a competitor, unless monster buys Rowdy energy
They're a personal sponsor of Kurt. If Kurt retires, Monster is gone from 23XI
 
Kyle Busch is sundowning. It's really sad to see. He's still competitive, but the wins just aren't coming like they did from 08-19, and id imagine they'll only slow down from here on out.

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I don’t understand how Kyle can go to 23xi with his current Rowdy Energy business, pretty sure monster is signed multi year with Kurt and 23xi

I am sure Monster wouldn’t want to share sponsorship with a competitor, unless monster buys Rowdy energy
It depends on the terms of the contract. Remember when HMS had Nationwide one one car and Farmers on another in the same year

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Two weeks ago, I would have said Busch is going to Kaulig. Now, I think he's staying with JGR.
Not sure what is going to happen, but from the perspective of security and family.....Is he going to find a better deal elsewhere than he has right now...at least with Toyota? Is Chevy going to give him more than he has right now? Ford? I don't think so....unless there is ownership at stake somewhere. For him to gamble the security of TRD and his team, there has to be some equity involved IMO.
 
Kyle Busch is sundowning. It's really sad to see. He's still competitive, but the wins just aren't coming like they did from 08-19, and id imagine they'll only slow down from here on out.

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The wins will absolutely slow down....by design. Next Gen. Look at Larson....he isn't sundowning, but this car is designed to level the playing field. Kyle and everybody else haters and supporters alike need to come up with a new metric to judge him. Having said all of that.....I respect your point, but that 37 year old has been sure is causing a fuss. Interesting stuff.
 
The Kyle free agency show is fascinating to watch. Remember a week ago when he was smiling nicely, speaking very nicely, and sounding like someone needing to not “blow it”? Now, yesterday’s presser finds him more like himself, not an a##, but with the return of the “almighty arrogance” look at times. What changed? Contracts on the table.

My guess is as follows:

1. A week ago the final proposals were coming due, so Kyle was on his absolute BEST behavior. This was both team and sponsor offers.

2. As of yesterday (or sometime this week) deals are on the table for signature. The wait is for KDB’s attorney to review and adjust any language prior to making his decision.

I predict the news conference will be next week, Wednesday. Leaving JGR for sure. Destination? 23XI…which also announces Kurt’s retirement.
Please sweet baby Jesus be right!
 
I'm not really sure what this means. Having had intimate interactions with all the manufacturers in the sport, I feel the opposite. I think ALL racing would benefit if each OEM were as involved and organized as Toyota from Cup all the way down to grassroots.

FWIW Toyota doesn't have as much "say" with the teams as many seem to think. There have been some pretty...we'll call them "passionate" discussions on team directions that didn't go Toyota's way, or didn't result in what Toyota thought was the best course of action. At the end of the day, they will always let the teams have the final say, even if it doesn't meet their vision or agenda. There are a ton of "difficult" sponsors in the garage who think their money entitles them to call the shots. Toyota is not one of them. I actually believe they are one of the gold standards.
Can't @StandOnIt come out to play?
 
Your reasoning is in part why my prediction is that he goes to 23XI: the question nobody can answer is IF Kurt is going to retire due to his injury? It’s understandable, and would open the seat to KDB, but they’d still have to purchase an additional charter to bring Reddick in for the following year.
I hope you are right. It does fit....I think Kurt is gone.....Why would he continue with the safety of the car in question.....and that would explain why 23 XI isn't desperate for a charter.....
 
The wins will absolutely slow down....by design. Next Gen. Look at Larson....he isn't sundowning, but this car is designed to level the playing field. Kyle and everybody else haters and supporters alike need to come up with a new metric to judge him. Having said all of that.....I respect your point, but that 37 year old has been sure is causing a fuss. Interesting stuff.
The thing is, can’t blame the Next Gen for Kyle. He has 4 wins in 3 years… and this is the first year of the car. At one point I figured he pass Earnhardt in wins. Now I don’t think he will.
 
Kyle Busch sweepstakes

1. Stays right where he is ( my prediction)
2. Goes to 23XI if Kurt bows out
3. Kaulig- Not happening. If Joe and Toyota cant reach Kyles number no way Kaulig can.
 
The wins will absolutely slow down....by design. Next Gen. Look at Larson....he isn't sundowning, but this car is designed to level the playing field. Kyle and everybody else haters and supporters alike need to come up with a new metric to judge him. Having said all of that.....I respect your point, but that 37 year old has been sure is causing a fuss. Interesting stuff.
I think it's less about age 37, and more about mileage. He's in year 18.

Next gen parity isn't something sustainable. We've had 19 winners in 01, 18 in 02 and 17 in 2011. Like every iteration of car, the super teams will widen the gap. A driver winning 8 races, a single organization knocking out a 15 win season will happen and continue to happen.

KBs decline due to mileage, imo. Even before the next gen, he won 4 times between mid 2019 and end of 2021. He may have one more championship/championship caliber year in him, but I would be surprised to see him hit 70-75 at this point. 18 years is a long long time.

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Two weeks ago, I would have said Busch is going to Kaulig. Now, I think he's staying with JGR.
I don't think there's any way in heck he stays at JGR. That bridge has been burned, and it would have been done by now if it were still an option.
 
Next gen parity isn't something sustainable. We've had 19 winners in 01, 18 in 02 and 17 in 2011. Like every iteration of car, the super teams will widen the gap. A driver winning 8 races, a single organization knocking out a 15 win season will happen and continue to happen.
While I do agree the super teams will rise to the top, I don't think you will find domination. This is a drastically different formula from anything NASCAR has done before. The box is tight.....and the Pocono consequences are pretty devastating.
 
While I do agree the super teams will rise to the top, I don't think you will find domination. This is a drastically different formula from anything NASCAR has done before. The box is tight.....and the Pocono consequences are pretty devastating.
The difference as you pointed out, is with this car they cant spend millions on making a better Upper or lower control arm, spindles, massaging body panels etc.... they are gonna buy it from the same place as the little guy.
 
It comes down to inspections. It's setup so they can't cheat because of standardized parts and as long as they continue to find violations as small as tape on the front ends I think we will continue to have a variety of winners.
 
While I do agree the super teams will rise to the top, I don't think you will find domination. This is a drastically different formula from anything NASCAR has done before. The box is tight.....and the Pocono consequences are pretty devastating.
We shall see. I distinctly remember the same hype around the 2008 season with the COT. We heard every single week from the fox booth about this unprecedented level of party. Then Edwards Busch and Johnson won 24/36 races that season, but generally speaking, the rest of the field was packed pretty tight outside of those 3 cars.

I very well may be wrong, and will own it years from now if I am. But I think the parity is nothing but 2022 marketing of the "best season ever"/pure hyperbole.

I think that competitively, it'll be same as it's ever been in a few years. We shall see though.

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The difference as you pointed out, is with this car they cant spend millions on making a better Upper or lower control arm, spindles, massaging body panels etc.... they are gonna buy it from the same place as the little guy.
Absolutely..but the better funded teams still will be paying the higher quality staff you could assume, right? And with superior performance over time, they'll have more reliable data to work with. The platform may be the same baseline but I'd still imagine the playing field will get less even.

Perhaps with spending millions on better parts being out the picture, teams are more on competent staff and superior crews/engineers


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We shall see. I distinctly remember the same hype around the 2008 season with the COT. We heard every single week from the fox booth about this unprecedented level of party. Then Edwards Busch and Johnson won 24/36 races that season, but generally speaking, the rest of the field was packed pretty tight outside of those 3 cars.

I very well may be wrong, and will own it years from now if I am. But I think the parity is nothing but 2022 marketing of the "best season ever"/pure hyperbole.

I think that competitively, it'll be same as it's ever been in a few years. We shall see though.

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That wasn't the hype. The car was built to be safer after the death of Sr, and Adam Petty.
 
Absolutely..but the better funded teams still will be paying the higher quality staff you could assume, right? And with superior performance over time, they'll have more reliable data to work with. The platform may be the same baseline but I'd still imagine the playing field will get less even.

Perhaps with spending millions on better parts being out the picture, teams are more on competent staff and superior crews/engineers


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As always the better funded teams will find a trick here or there but nothing like in the past, there just isnt any room for it. The most important parts of the car have effectively been put off limits. The new car eliminated the need for many crew positions so a lot of really good crew guys were set free to find other jobs and many found their way to the lesser funded teams. You might think if they were that good they wouldnt have been let go but thats unfortunately what happened to a ton of really really talented guys and girls. I've been around a long time and have never seen the competition this close and I expect it to continue
 
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