Silly Season 2023

cheesepuffs said:
In the early days of Toyota in Cup they weren't even making the show...

Ford and Chevy had to get off the asses and invest in the sport? The 90s between Ford and Chevy were nuts.
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Jack Roush bitched about Toyota before they turned a wheel in Cup, and he wasn't alone. You know this.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If JGR switched back to Chevy tomorrow, you won't care if we smeared Coach with honey and staked him out for the ants.
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No ****. You wasted your time posting this. I have said this over and over. You leave MY OEM, and you are the competition. It really doesn't bother me that Rick Hendrick was indicted for example.
 
Revman said:
No ****. You wasted your time posting this. I have said this over and over. You leave MY OEM, and you are the competition. It really doesn't bother me that Rick Hendrick was indicted for example.
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Then don't tell me you're "sick of Coach being portrayed as an a**hole". You don't care about him as a person. To you, he's just another tool in Toyota's box. Nobody cares if a wrench or a jack stand is called names; why should it matter what we call Gibbs?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Then don't tell me you're "sick of Coach being portrayed as an a**hole". You don't care about him as a person. To you, he's just another tool in Toyota's box. Nobody cares if a wrench or a jack stand is called names; why should it matter what we call Gibbs?
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Because "narrative" and "brand" blah blah blah :wacko:
 
Blaze said:
I do love me some Rev. It’s going to be so entertaining watching him dislike Kyle Busch next season if Kyle jumps to a Chevy or Ford.
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He doesn't like Kyle Busch THE PERSON now. He likes that there's a meat sack, any meat sack, filling the M&M's firesuit. He was a great tool in 'OUR' box but move him to someone else's box and he's less than worthless.

Or should that be "It was a great tool in 'OUR' box but move it to someone else's box and it's less than worthless"?
 
Revman said:
I would like to think that Mr. Visser might be a bit appreciative of Coach for that Cup championship he won. That trophy wouldn't be there without him, and I think we both understand that.
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Meh. That's a moot point. Once Cole Pearn was handed the FRR reins, he took the team to the championship 4 in a Chevy. So who knows what would have happened. They could have had 3 championships without JGR. They could still be racing today without JGR. Or they could have had no championships and been a back marker after that season. All moot. All I know is the relationship with JGR was more strained and difficult than collaborative since day one - and certainly when compared to the RCR relationship. So as to what Mr Visser does and does not appreciate, I'll just stick to what I know as fact.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'll be honest I don't dislike Toyota as a manufacturer in general. I don't like them in Nascar because of their business model and how they run the teams as more of a factory effort.
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I'm not really sure what this means. Having had intimate interactions with all the manufacturers in the sport, I feel the opposite. I think ALL racing would benefit if each OEM were as involved and organized as Toyota from Cup all the way down to grassroots.

FWIW Toyota doesn't have as much "say" with the teams as many seem to think. There have been some pretty...we'll call them "passionate" discussions on team directions that didn't go Toyota's way, or didn't result in what Toyota thought was the best course of action. At the end of the day, they will always let the teams have the final say, even if it doesn't meet their vision or agenda. There are a ton of "difficult" sponsors in the garage who think their money entitles them to call the shots. Toyota is not one of them. I actually believe they are one of the gold standards.
 
Allenbaba said:
I'm not really sure what this means. Having had intimate interactions with all the manufacturers in the sport, I feel the opposite. I think ALL racing would benefit if each OEM were as involved and organized as Toyota from Cup all the way down to grassroots.
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I can't disagree with that ideal... but it takes a whole new level of budget. And that's more affordable for Toyota than Ford or Chevy. There is also the issue of Toyota supporting just six cars. If the other OEM's did the same... yikes!
 
Revman said:
Wait a minute. Who said Coach was unethical? So interesting how the narrative ebbs and flows. Change a word here and change a word there...and then a whole new narrative evolves. You mentioned that you weren't accusing Coach of anything, and then elegantly accused Coach of everything. Oh that narrative.
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What I'm saying is, if Coach has handled some things the way some people think they have gone down, that could be described as unethical. I believe one of the phrases used was cutthroat. I'm not saying Coach is or isn't ethical, I'm just saying that IF you are unethical in business, then you are unethical, there is no moral free zone in life. I am not personally making any accusations, I will just say that things seem to happen over there in a way that I am not used to.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I can't disagree with that ideal... but it takes a whole new level of budget. And that's more affordable for Toyota than Ford or Chevy. There is also the issue of Toyota supporting just six cars. If the other OEM's did the same... yikes!
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I just liked the old business model a lot more. Put the tools out there and let the teams fight it out. I totally get the economics of it, but I despise the single source engine suppliers and I despise all the satellite teams being beholden to just one mothership team like JGR. It may be good business, but it sucks as a sport. Most of you know that I LOVE sports car racing, but I truly HATE the current IMSA model. I LOVED Grand Am, because you would go to a chassis manufacurer, buy what you wanted and then align yourself with an engine brand and go racing. Want to run a Porsche V8 and Porsche doesn't want to support it? Do it anyway and pay for it yourself. Want to switch from a Riley to a Dallara mid- season? Just do it. Now, you can't even run a manufacturer unless they are an official sponsor of the series, and you can't get a car unless they want you to have one. For years you would have 30 Porsche GT cars at Daytona and only 2 Corvettes, because Chevy absolutely kept a lid on EVERYTHING. Thats bad for the sport in my opinion, and is why sports car racing crashes and burns every decade or so. It may have eventually happened anyway, but Toyota brought a business model to NASCAR that I didn't like, and I'll always hate them for it.
 
Conover said:
Regardless of hair color…that clip of KDB confirming his arrogance and antics cost him his major sponsor are WOW…surprising. His candor, his confirmation that he will have to dial it back some for new sponsors, etc. He also deflected some of this blame to NASCAR, saying they’ve told him for 15 years to keep being an #@$&#@# (essentially be yourself behind the wheel). No doubt he embraced the “bad boy” approach with gusto, knowing it‘s part of the show.

I think @Allenbaba said it best in a previous post; how you engage and treat the team, your sponsors and others within the organization matters a lot. If your not winning, they stop looking past poor treatment.

I hope KDB uses some introspection, and brings us Kyle Busch…good man, father and husband that I’m sure he is…as his racing persona. Not because the sponsors say he has to, but because he finds it a better way to work his racing career. His brother Kurt had to transform and did it successfully.
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It's just weird to see this 18 year old phenom beginning the sundowning years of his career, with 40 on the horizon


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It's been said from me and others that when Kyle Busch quits winning he's gone. He has won 63% of JGR's wins and they are kicking him to the curb without a parachute. I can't stand the guy but that is pitiful. Hendrick when they made room for Larson gave Kahne quite a package when he left in comparison. I think Kyle is going to take a hell of a bath when he goes somewhere else to make room for wonder boy.
 
The Kyle free agency show is fascinating to watch. Remember a week ago when he was smiling nicely, speaking very nicely, and sounding like someone needing to not “blow it”? Now, yesterday’s presser finds him more like himself, not an a##, but with the return of the “almighty arrogance” look at times. What changed? Contracts on the table.

My guess is as follows:

1. A week ago the final proposals were coming due, so Kyle was on his absolute BEST behavior. This was both team and sponsor offers.

2. As of yesterday (or sometime this week) deals are on the table for signature. The wait is for KDB’s attorney to review and adjust any language prior to making his decision.

I predict the news conference will be next week, Wednesday. Leaving JGR for sure. Destination? 23XI…which also announces Kurt’s retirement.
 
Conover said:
The Kyle free agency show is fascinating to watch. Remember a week ago when he was smiling nicely, speaking very nicely, and sounding like someone needing to not “blow it”? Now, yesterday’s presser finds him more like himself, not an a##, but with the return of the “almighty arrogance” look at times. What changed? Contracts on the table.

My guess is as follows:

1. A week ago the final proposals were coming due, so Kyle was on his absolute BEST behavior. This was both team and sponsor offers.

2. As of yesterday (or sometime this week) deals are on the table for signature. The wait is for KDB’s attorney to review and adjust any language prior to making his decision.

I predict the news conference will be next week, Wednesday. Leaving JGR for sure. Destination? 23XI…which also announces Kurt’s retirement.
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So Hamlin would be Kyle's boss...hilarious
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Yea I can’t picture him at 23XI at all.
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I know, it’s a bit of a wild guess, and not the odds on favorite. Just feeling like Toyota might be his best option for keeping the other things in sync relative to his trucks/KBM and his future plans after racing. Also speculating that Kurt may not come back (at least full time) to open a seat. Lastly thinking MJ would have the bucks plus sponsor pull in to make it work out.

Kaulig seems favored but just doesn’t strike me as the right fit. Right now I think the favorite is RCM, presuming they can kick Reddick out to 23XI early.
 
StandOnIt said:
It's been said from me and others that when Kyle Busch quits winning he's gone. He has won 63% of JGR's wins and they are kicking him to the curb without a parachute. I can't stand the guy but that is pitiful. Hendrick when they made room for Larson gave Kahne quite a package when he left in comparison. I think Kyle is going to take a hell of a bath when he goes somewhere else to make room for wonder boy.
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Wait, what? Kahne was gone a few years before Larson came to HMS..
 
Allenbaba said:
Meh. That's a moot point. Once Cole Pearn was handed the FRR reins, he took the team to the championship 4 in a Chevy. So who knows what would have happened. They could have had 3 championships without JGR. They could still be racing today without JGR. Or they could have had no championships and been a back marker after that season. All moot. All I know is the relationship with JGR was more strained and difficult than collaborative since day one - and certainly when compared to the RCR relationship. So as to what Mr Visser does and does not appreciate, I'll just stick to what I know as fact.
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StandOnIt said:
I think Kyle is going to take a hell of a bath when he goes somewhere else to make room for wonder boy.
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With M&M's pulling out and Kyle's performance the last three seasons, he'd probably be gone at the end of this contract anyway. JGR just happened to have someone talented and inexpensive already in the 'family'. Otherwise they'd have spent the summer shopping.
 
Conover said:
Right now I think the favorite is RCM, presuming they can kick Reddick out to 23XI early.
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=IF= Kurt comes back and there's no seat at 23XI, can Childress afford to pay Reddick to sit at home? An announcement by Kurt may come too late for Richard to make that decision. Kaulig doesn't have any issues making a seat available; it's already ready, already.
 
Allenbaba said:
Meh. That's a moot point. Once Cole Pearn was handed the FRR reins, he took the team to the championship 4 in a Chevy. So who knows what would have happened. They could have had 3 championships without JGR. They could still be racing today without JGR. Or they could have had no championships and been a back marker after that season. All moot. All I know is the relationship with JGR was more strained and difficult than collaborative since day one - and certainly when compared to the RCR relationship. So as to what Mr Visser does and does not appreciate, I'll just stick to what I know as fact.
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Then why did Furniture Row go to Toyota in the first place, and why didn't they go back to Chevy?
 
Allenbaba said:
I'm not really sure what this means. Having had intimate interactions with all the manufacturers in the sport, I feel the opposite. I think ALL racing would benefit if each OEM were as involved and organized as Toyota from Cup all the way down to grassroots.

FWIW Toyota doesn't have as much "say" with the teams as many seem to think. There have been some pretty...we'll call them "passionate" discussions on team directions that didn't go Toyota's way, or didn't result in what Toyota thought was the best course of action. At the end of the day, they will always let the teams have the final say, even if it doesn't meet their vision or agenda. There are a ton of "difficult" sponsors in the garage who think their money entitles them to call the shots. Toyota is not one of them. I actually believe they are one of the gold standards.
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Waiting patiently for @StandOnIt rebuttal.......Crickets.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Then don't tell me you're "sick of Coach being portrayed as an a**hole". You don't care about him as a person. To you, he's just another tool in Toyota's box. Nobody cares if a wrench or a jack stand is called names; why should it matter what we call Gibbs?
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You are a name on a message board, and not in a position to tell me who or what I care about. You are over the line. Joe Gibbs is a good man who has done much good.
 
Formerjackman said:
What I'm saying is, if Coach has handled some things the way some people think they have gone down, that could be described as unethical. I believe one of the phrases used was cutthroat. I'm not saying Coach is or isn't ethical, I'm just saying that IF you are unethical in business, then you are unethical, there is no moral free zone in life. I am not personally making any accusations, I will just say that things seem to happen over there in a way that I am not used to.
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Come on man you aren't 18.....I don't think. If what people say around here is true? Who are you listening to? .....and behavior in the boardroom is different than behavior elsewhere. The rules of business are to destroy the competition and make as much money as you can. You operate that with people, and you are a prick. You base your perceptions on bull**** here....bad move.
 
I think KB going to 23XI at this point would be the least exciting change. It's almost lateral and out of all potential changes, certainly sounds the least significant/fireworky.

Blow it up. Go to RCR, Kaulig, Jr Motorsports in cup, bring in Dodge. Hell, end up back at HMS. This has been such a fun free agency, let's get some chaos!



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jaqua19 said:
I think KB going to 23XI at this point would be the least exciting change. It's almost lateral and out of all potential changes, certainly sounds the least significant/fireworky.

Blow it up. Go to RCR, Kaulig, Jr Motorsports in cup, bring in Dodge. Hell, end up back at HMS. This has been such a fun free agency, let's get some chaos!



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Given that Kaulig is announcing something WAY out a full month from now tells me they are out of the KDB sweepstakes (based on Kyle’s one more week timeline for his announcement). That leaves RCR and 23XI, with EITHER move requiring changes for an available seat. KDB alluded to dominos that will fall after his decision. Brother Kurt? Reddick? Something’s gotta give!

Wild silly season.
 
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