State Of The Sport

gnomesayin said:
Here's how dopey the Marks article is. I watched the Turkey Night Grand Prix last night. I also watched part of the evening NFL game.

For those that don't know, that's a midget race on a dirt oval. It has been held every year over Thanksgiving since before the NBA existed and since a time when an NFL game consisted of a few completed forward passes per game.

Overnight TV ratings reveal that the NFL game was watched by an average of 17 million people. For all I know, the Turkey Night Grand Prix was watched by a total of 17,000. It probably wasn't much more, to be honest. Yet there were more than 70 cars in the pits, Kyle Larson and Christopher Bell were competing and having the time of their lives. I watched it from the comfort of my living room, just as I watched the NFL game before that.

Tell me more about how technology and how "we" consume sports is bad for racing and demands an existential crisis.
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The crisis started years before this idea was floated.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I know that I don’t want to consume programming in 30 second increments but the reality is my opinion and that of many others here does not matter due to our age. Pity.
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you might look better informed if you would take the time to read the transcript instead of a 20 something reporter who isn't any where's close to being a knowledgeable source of information

Q. There have been various people lobbying for changes to the
schedule, shortening the season. Which kind of changes as NASCAR
evolves do you feel are most realistic to happen in regards to the
schedule and shortening the number of tracks you go to, and what's not
in play? Are there some things that are so engrained in the sport that
you're not willing to consider changing?
STEVE PHELPS
: In short answer, I think everything is in play. So,
we've heard from our fan base that they would like to see more short track
racing. They want to see more road courses. They want to see less cookie
cutter tracks, whatever that means.
I think that we are looking with our broadcast partners and with our
tracks and with our teams and drivers to get input on what each of them
believes would be an ideal schedule, and then we're obviously doing fan
research as part of it. So, do I believe that everything is on the table? I do.
Will we see a lot of the things that have been talked about, so more short
tracks, more road courses, double headers, midweek racing, pulling the
season forward? All those things would be in play. I don't know what's going
to happen, but we are working diligently on what a 2020 schedule would be.
As soon as we have something to talk about, we will get to you.
 
Mopardh9 said:
It's hilarious watching the spin, I love NASCAR....i want it to survive and flourish, but I'm also a realist and see major problems in the sport where the apologists stick their heads in the sand and refuse to admit anything is wrong.
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IMO this sort of thing is taken far to seriously by the giddy optimists. When someone has to revert to name calling and calling others liars it is sad.
 
Mopardh9 said:
It's hilarious watching the spin, I love NASCAR....i want it to survive and flourish, but I'm also a realist and see major problems in the sport where the apologists stick their heads in the sand and refuse to admit anything is wrong.
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It is more entertaining catching lairs in the act myself. The big whopper kinds. oh yeah
 
IanMcVittie said:
IMO this sort of thing is taken far to seriously by the giddy optimists. When someone has to revert to name calling and calling others liars it is sad.
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what they get caught bare faced it is sad for them. Some have to continually change their identities, but they keep coming back for more, you would think they would learn something.
 
Mopardh9 said:
It's hilarious watching the spin, I love NASCAR....i want it to survive and flourish, but I'm also a realist and see major problems in the sport where the apologists stick their heads in the sand and refuse to admit anything is wrong.
Click to expand...

You're a grass roots short track racing fan first and foremost, correct? You know the resilience of that kind of racing, and how huge audiences aren't needed to sustain it. It endures because of the relatively few who love it.

Social media and streaming technology make more forms of racing more available and easier to follow than ever before.

The 'crisis' exists in two ways. People who became mega-rich from NASCAR in the '00s aren't able to get as rich anymore. Followers who are more worried about how popular what they watch is than how good it is will have to find another bandwagon.

Every harmful, misguided change that NASCAR has made has been an attempt to chase non-racing fans who will not be pleased regardless: elimination playoffs, drafting rules package, etc. Preaching the sky is falling mindset only leads to more needless desperation.
 
Mopardh9 said:
It's hilarious watching the spin, I love NASCAR....i want it to survive and flourish, but I'm also a realist and see major problems in the sport where the apologists stick their heads in the sand and refuse to admit anything is wrong.
Click to expand...
It isn't a matter of admitting anything is wrong. Listening to the same snarky comments that do nothing to advance the sport is tiring at the very least. If you want to be the poster boy for that I wouldn't expect any fan to lay down on ya.Saying Nascar is in trouble over and over, doesn't solve a thing. Here is what the new president said below. I believe there is something in there for everybody. Do I think it all will happen? nope, but I do believe some of it will. Brian's gone.


we've heard from our fan base that they would like to see more short track
racing. They want to see more road courses. They want to see less cookie
cutter tracks, whatever that means.
I think that we are looking with our broadcast partners and with our
tracks and with our teams and drivers to get input on what each of them
believes would be an ideal schedule, and then we're obviously doing fan
research as part of it. So, do I believe that everything is on the table? I do.
Will we see a lot of the things that have been talked about, so more short
tracks, more road courses, double headers, midweek racing, pulling the
season forward? All those things would be in play. I don't know what's going
to happen, but we are working diligently on what a 2020 schedule would be.
As soon as we have something to talk about, we will get to you.
 
gnomesayin said:
You're a grass roots short track racing fan first and foremost, correct? You know the resilience of that kind of racing, and how huge audiences aren't needed to sustain it. It endures because of the relatively few who love it.

Social media and streaming technology make more forms of racing more available and easier to follow than ever before.

The 'crisis' exists in two ways. People who became mega-rich from NASCAR in the '00s aren't able to get as rich anymore. Followers who are more worried about how popular what they watch is than how good it is will have to find another bandwagon.

Every harmful, misguided change that NASCAR has made has been an attempt to chase non-racing fans who will not be pleased regardless: elimination playoffs, drafting rules package, etc. Preaching the sky is falling mindset only leads to more needless desperation.
Click to expand...
My roots are in short track Modifieds yes, but I've also been to Vegas for 6 Cup races, 2 Cup at The Glenn, one at Phoenix, one at Bristol and 3 at New Hampshire. I supported NASCAR in what they did, but after the farce of Chase was part if it, then all the other gimmicks followed, I chose not to attend another Cup race.
 
StandOnIt said:
It isn't a matter of admitting anything is wrong. Listening to the same snarky comments that do nothing to advance the sport is tiring at the very least. If you want to be the poster boy for that I wouldn't expect any fan to lay down on ya.Saying Nascar is in trouble over and over, doesn't solve a thing. Here is what the new president said below. I believe there is something in there for everybody. Do I think it all will happen? nope, but I do believe some of it will. Brian's gone.


we've heard from our fan base that they would like to see more short track
racing. They want to see more road courses. They want to see less cookie
cutter tracks, whatever that means.
I think that we are looking with our broadcast partners and with our
tracks and with our teams and drivers to get input on what each of them
believes would be an ideal schedule, and then we're obviously doing fan
research as part of it. So, do I believe that everything is on the table? I do.
Will we see a lot of the things that have been talked about, so more short
tracks, more road courses, double headers, midweek racing, pulling the
season forward? All those things would be in play. I don't know what's going
to happen, but we are working diligently on what a 2020 schedule would be.
As soon as we have something to talk about, we will get to you.
Click to expand...

Steady on Amigo! Where is it written that forum members are to compse posts that advance Nascar? If you are composing posts that sugarcoat or bend the truth you are no better than the mouthpieces at Nascar. People should write what they think not what will benefit Nascar.
 
I will give you the State of the Sport....

When we take the cars and the technology out of the equation as NASCAR is trying really hard to do, we are left comparing our "athletes" (kind of) with stick and ball athletes. It looks like this:

upload_2018-11-23_14-25-0.jpeg Vs. upload_2018-11-23_14-25-49.jpeg

Questions? Didn't think so.

Market this sport as it should be marketed. Stop trying to keep up with stick and ball. Let's dive into what makes our sport different. Let's talk about the technical aspects of the sport. Let's talk about the cars. Let's talk about how our drivers (screw the "athlete" bull****) interface with these machines. Let's talk about a race weekend. Let's talk about strategy. Let's quit talking about accessibility when there really isn't any unless you are affiliated with somebody. Let's open garages the way Phoenix and Las Vegas have...but no, we search for stupid storylines, and personality features. This is so ****** simple. It really is, but NASCAR insists on chasing its ass. Frustrating as hell.
 
I agree, the chase screaming was hard to take. They spent too much time especially in the early races of the levels or whatever ya call them spending all the time talking about points and they were missing the rest of the racing I thought. The focus should be on the racing, who's car isn't handling, who's is. Who is moving up, they missed a lot of that unless it was one of the chase cars.
 
StandOnIt said:
your passive aggressive is showing. get help...soon :D
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I said you were wrong for expecting people to compose posts that promoted Nascar. How can that possibly construed as being passive agrresive mi amigo?
 
StandOnIt said:
I agree, the chase screaming was hard to take. They spent too much time especially in the early races of the levels or whatever ya call them spending all the time talking about points and they were missing the rest of the racing I thought. The focus should be on the racing, who's car isn't handling, who's is. Who is moving up, they missed a lot of that unless it was one of the chase cars.
Click to expand...
Finally you are making some sense:D
 
Revman said:
I will give you the State of the Sport....

When we take the cars and the technology out of the equation as NASCAR is trying really hard to do, we are left comparing our "athletes" (kind of) with stick and ball athletes. It looks like this:

View attachment 37060 Vs. View attachment 37061

Questions? Didn't think so.

Market this sport as it should be marketed. Stop trying to keep up with stick and ball. Let's dive into what makes our sport different. Let's talk about the technical aspects of the sport. Let's talk about the cars. Let's talk about how our drivers (screw the "athlete" bull****) interface with these machines. Let's talk about a race weekend. Let's talk about strategy. Let's quit talking about accessibility when there really isn't any unless you are affiliated with somebody. Let's open garages the way Phoenix and Las Vegas have...but no, we search for stupid storylines, and personality features. This is so ******* simple. It really is, but NASCAR insists on chasing its ass. Frustrating as hell.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me but I’m skeptical of ever seeing something you described. Never say never though
 
Mopardh9 said:
The only way to have Martinsville racing is to have more short tracks.
Click to expand...
Almost all 1.5 mile tracks which were built for IRL and maybe F1 could be adapted to short track status with very little construction. Many of them could also be a combination short track and road course.
 
StandOnIt said:
I agree, the chase screaming was hard to take. They spent too much time especially in the early races of the levels or whatever ya call them spending all the time talking about points and they were missing the rest of the racing I thought. The focus should be on the racing, who's car isn't handling, who's is. Who is moving up, they missed a lot of that unless it was one of the chase cars.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I have attended one Chase race, and the race is lost. Each one of these events is a story in itself. You don't need to look for storylines. The race is the storyline.
 
gnomesayin said:
You're a grass roots short track racing fan first and foremost, correct? You know the resilience of that kind of racing, and how huge audiences aren't needed to sustain it. It endures because of the relatively few who love it.

Social media and streaming technology make more forms of racing more available and easier to follow than ever before.

The 'crisis' exists in two ways. People who became mega-rich from NASCAR in the '00s aren't able to get as rich anymore. Followers who are more worried about how popular what they watch is than how good it is will have to find another bandwagon.

Every harmful, misguided change that NASCAR has made has been an attempt to chase non-racing fans who will not be pleased regardless: elimination playoffs, drafting rules package, etc. Preaching the sky is falling mindset only leads to more needless desperation.
Click to expand...

Great post. Tremendous.
 
Revman said:
Great post. Tremendous.
Click to expand...
I'm not so much preaching the sky is falling as I am being a realist. Shark had a pretty cool idea about the state of NASCAR in the podium. Have shorter races, 25 car fields, tour the short tracks, even have mid week races, and get back to the grass roots of the sport at the older tracks. I could see drivers liking the racing , but being a little less than enthusiastic about the purses, but there would be more races kind of like what the Woo does, only on a smaller scale.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I'm not so much preaching the sky is falling as I am being a realist. Shark had a pretty cool idea about the state of NASCAR in the podium. Have shorter races, 25 car fields, tour the short tracks, even have mid week races, and get back to the grass roots of the sport at the older tracks. I could see drivers liking the racing , but being a little less than enthusiastic about the purses, but there would be more races kind of like what the Woo does, only on a smaller scale.
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The whole “sky is falling” thing is used by people to move goalposts and shut off debate. IDK any regular participant here that feels Nascar is going out of business anytime soon.
 
IanMcVittie said:
The whole “sky is falling” thing is used by people to move goalposts and shut off debate. IDK any regular participant here that feels Nascar is going out of business anytime soon.
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Not soon that's for sure, but if the decline continues like it is, I can see NASCAR being on some obscure channel and pretty much forgotten part of motorsports.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Not soon that's for sure, but if the decline continues like it is, I can see NASCAR being on some obscure channel and pretty much forgotten part of motorsports.
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I agree as you can only take double digit losses each year for so long before there is not much left. Not that long ago races there were not many races that had less than 4 million viewers. Next year there will probably be a half dozen races with less than 2 million viewers.

I do think Nascar will always be around in some form as if Eastman-Kodak is still with us anything is possible. IMO Nascar will need to have less races, smaller fields and shorter races.
 
The state of the sport is that the new management has finally noticed that the TV ratings are cratering, and that painting the empty seats in the stands isn't working. "Everything" is finally on the table in an attempt to right the ship. Gotta applaud that!
 
Mopardh9 said:
Last Sunday's NASCAR Cup Series finale from Homestead earned a 2.5 rating and 4.15 million viewers on NBC, down 11% in ratings and viewership from last year (2.8, 4.66M) and down 29% and 32% respectively from 2016 (3.5, 6.08M).[More](11-23-2018)

Phoenix TV ratings UPDATE: NBC earned a 2.1 overnight rating for Sunday's Cup race at ISM Raceway.(11-12-2018)
UPDATE: The NASCAR Cup Series playoffs from Phoenix earned a 2.0 rating and 3.31 million viewers on NBCSN, down 9% in ratings and viewership from last year (2.2, 3.64M) and down 17% and 18% respectively from 2016 (2.4, 4.03M).[More](11-15-2018)


Texas TV ratings UPDATE: NBCSN earned a 1.5 overnight rating for Sunday's race from Texas Motor Speedway.(11-5-2018)
UPDATE: The NASCAR Cup Series playoffs from Texas earned a 1.4 rating and 2.27 million viewers on NBCSN last Sunday, down 13% in ratings and 16% in viewership from last year (1.6, 2.70M). The 2016 race was postponed due to rain, with rainout coverage earning a 1.1 and 1.86 million.[More](11-10-2018)

Martinsville TV ratings: NBCSN earned a 1.3 overnight rating for Sunday's race at Martinsville Speedway.(10-29-2018)
UPDATE: The NASCAR Cup Series playoffs from Martinsville (Va.) earned a 1.3 rating and 2.15 million viewers on NBCSN, down 24% in ratings and 22% in viewership from last year (1.7, 2.78M) and down 19% in both measures from 2016 (1.6, 2.67M).[More](11-3-2018)

Kansas TV ratings UPDATE: NBC earned a 1.8 overnight rating for Sunday's race from Kansas Speedway.(10-23-2018)
UPDATE: The NASCAR Cup Series playoffs from Kansas earned a 1.7 rating and 2.75 million viewers on NBC last Sunday, flat in ratings and down a fraction of a percent in viewership from last year on NBCSN (1.7, 2.76M), and down 19% and 20% respectively from 2016 on NBC (2.1, 3.45M).[More](10-28-2018)

Talladega TV ratings UPDATE: NBC earned a 2.2 overnight rating for racing at Talladega on Sunday.(10-15-2018)
UPDATE: The NASCAR Cup Series playoffs from Talladega (Ala.) earned a 2.2 rating and 3.51 million viewers on NBC last Sunday, down 21% in ratings and 26% in viewership from last year (2.8, 4.73M) and flat and down 2% respectively from 2016 on NBCSN (2.2, 3.58M).[More](10-20-2018)

Dover TV ratings UPDATE: NBCSN earned a 1.3 overnight rating for Sunday's race.(10-8-2018)
UPDATE: Sunday's NASCAR Cup Series playoffs at Dover had a 1.2 rating and 2.01 million viewers on NBCSN, down a tick in ratings and 2% in viewership from last year (1.3, 2.05M) and down 20% and 21% respectively from 2016 (1.5, 2.56M).[More](10-12-2018)

Charlotte TV ratings UPDATE: NBC earned a 1.99 overnight rating for Sunday afternoon's race on Charlotte Motor Speedway's inaugural ROVAL race.(10-4-2018)
UPDATE: The NASCAR Cup Series playoffs at Charlotte earned a 1.95 rating and 3.218 million viewers on NBC, up 6% in ratings and 13% in viewership from last year (1.8, 2.86M) and just the fourth Cup Series race all season to post an increase, joining Michigan, Chicagoland and Watkins Glen.[More](10-4-2018)

Richmond TV ratings UPDATE: NBCSN earned a 1.1 overnight rating for Saturday night's race.(9-24-2018)
UPDATE: Last Saturday's NASCAR Cup Series playoff race at Richmond (Va.) earned a 1.0 rating and 1.77 million viewers on NBCSN, down 17% in ratings and viewership from last year (1.2, 2.14M) and down 38% and 34% respectively from 2016 (1.6, 2.71M). Kyle Busch's win ranks as the lowest rated and least-watched NASCAR Cup Series race since at least 2000. [More](9-24-2018)

Las Vegas TV ratings UPDATE: NBCSN earned a 1.3 overnight rating for Sunday's race from Las Vegas Motor Speedway.(9-17-2018)
UPDATE: Last Sunday's NASCAR Cup Series playoff race at Las Vegas earned a 1.3 rating and 2.14 million viewers on NBCSN - down a tick in ratings and 7% in viewership from last year's playoff opener on the same weekend (Chicagoland: 1.4, 2.31M).[More](9-21-2018)

Indianapolis TV ratingsUPDATE: NBCSN earned 1.24 million viewers for Monday's postponed Brickyard 400.(9-13-2018)
UPDATE: Last year's race, which ran as scheduled in July, had 5.63 million on the NBC broadcast network. Earlier in the day, the delayed Xfinity Series race from the same track had 474,000.[More](9-16-2018)

Darlington TV ratings: NBCSN earned a 1.5 overnight rating for Sunday night's Cup race at Darlington.(9-4-2018)
UPDATE: Last Sunday's NASCAR Cup Series Southern 500 from Darlington earned a 1.5 rating and 2.66 million viewers on NBCSN, down 17% in ratings and 14% in viewership from last year (1.8, 3.10M) and down 46% and 43% respectively from 2016 on the NBC broadcast network (2.8, 4.64M).[More](9-6-2018)

Bristol TV ratings UPDATE: NBCSN earned a 1.4 overnight rating for Saturday night's Bass Pro NRA Night Race.(8-20-2018)
UPDATE: Saturday's NASCAR Cup Series Bristol Night Race earned a 1.4 rating and 2.33 million viewers on NBCSN, down 39% in ratings and viewership from last year on the NBC broadcast network (2.3. 3.82M) and down a third and 36% respectively from 2015, the last time it aired as scheduled on NBCSN (2.1, 3.61M).[More](8-23-2018)

Michigan TV ratings: NBCSN earned a 1.62 overnight rating for the Consumers Energy 400. The race faced big competition from the PGA Championship, which earned a 6.1[More](8-13-2018)

Notice a trend here? But the state of the sport couldn't be better.;)
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See this is why more short tracks is not the way to go. We all love them but Jesus Michigan gets more eyeballs than the Bristol night race or Martinsville playoff race. Think about that.

I’m a process engineer for Honda and can tell you right now the number one thing in collaborating with production managers is going over what succeeds and what does not in their opinion, and comparing it to the stats of the operation. Tempers can occasionally flare but it’s a marriage of listening to what works on the floor, and ultimately what the numbers demand.

I have had season tickets since the 90s to MIS and have no problem admitting I’d rather watch at Martinsville. Yet numbers wise the fans want Michigan/Talladega
 
Mispeedway15 said:
See this is why more short tracks is not the way to go. We all love them but Jesus Michigan gets more eyeballs than the Bristol night race or Martinsville playoff race. Think about that.

I’m a process engineer for Honda and can tell you right now the number one thing in collaborating with production managers is going over what succeeds and what does not in their opinion, and comparing it to the stats of the operation. Tempers can occasionally flare but it’s a marriage of listening to what works on the floor, and ultimately what the numbers demand.

I have had season tickets since the 90s to MIS and have no problem admitting I’d rather watch at Martinsville. Yet numbers wise the fans want Michigan/Talladega
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Because they want to see the big one, I'm not sure I agree with those numbers either.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
See this is why more short tracks is not the way to go. We all love them but Jesus Michigan gets more eyeballs than the Bristol night race or Martinsville playoff race. Think about that.

I’m a process engineer for Honda and can tell you right now the number one thing in collaborating with production managers is going over what succeeds and what does not in their opinion, and comparing it to the stats of the operation. Tempers can occasionally flare but it’s a marriage of listening to what works on the floor, and ultimately what the numbers demand.

I have had season tickets since the 90s to MIS and have no problem admitting I’d rather watch at Martinsville. Yet numbers wise the fans want Michigan/Talladega
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Short tracks won’t save the planet but Michigan didn’t have to run on Saturday night or NFL Sundays. Those hurt Bristol and Martinsville.
 
People will tune into Nascar if there is nothing else to do but once it faces even tepid competition it folds like a house of cards.
 
IanMcVittie said:
If you listen to Phelps, France and the apologists here that is what you will be told.
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I know, i was being sarcastic, too many apologists here, but hey if they want that warm and fuzzy feeling when they say the state of Nascar is fine....so be it, they are just kidding themselves.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I know, i was being sarcastic, too many apologists here, but hey if they want that warm and fuzzy feeling when they say the state of Nascar is fine....so be it, they are just kidding themselves.
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Reality is something some peope would prefer not to see and that is their choice. On the other hand I prefer to know the good and bad coming at me so I can formulate a plan.
 
IanMcVittie said:
A lot of people enjoy Nascar and don’t give a hoot about attendance or ratings Some others enjoy Nascar and try and apply lipstick to a pig.
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so that is reality? are you hooting now or ya have the lipstick. Decisions decisions state of the sport..
 
"They want to see less cookie cutter tracks, whatever that means."

This made me cringe. I know they need to keep promoting the cookie cutters for now, but if they really don't know which tracks are cookie cutters, then the new management is the same as the old management.
 
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