The changes have arrived.

AdoubleU24 said:
I just don't see any possible way this improves ratings or attendance.

Nobody is looking over at their neighbor today and saying "Hey Jim, did you hear what them NASCAR boys are doing this year?? Sounds exciting!"

No lie, my girlfriend that I introduced to the sport last July-ish in Daytona (she loves it btw, she's become an avid fan) absolutely hates these changes. She said to me last night if she was a new person just now starting to follow the sport she'd have no clue what in the hell was going on. My father who introduced me to the sport 22 years ago is also appalled that the Daytona 500 is going to be run in this manner.
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I don't think these changes will cause an uptick in attendance or ratings but I don't see it hurting them either. Some will leave because of them and some will come back but in the end I see it as a wash. Nascar's remaining fans are a pretty loyal and resilient and have the ability to block out a lot of things in order to continue enjoying the series so they ain't going anywhere. However to the 18 year old kid will these changes make him tune in for a look see? Probably not and even if he does stop in there likely won't be enough of a difference from the previous format to make him stay. Some people may see that view as negative but I see it more as being realistic.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Nothing we can do about that. Accept it at face value until Brian spots something else shiny.
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It isn't that I don't take what Nascar is saying at face value because I believe they actually believe what they are saying at the time. It is more that I think they will only believe it for a few weeks before implementing more change.
 
The drivers is what will draw younger fans to NASCAR not the race format. There is a youth movement of drivers coming in and that should also bring in younger fans. Ryan Blaney and Bubba Wallace do a great job of promoting NASCAR to kids. If more young drivers are able to show personality and reach people their age then they will draw them to the sport.
 
ted@economy said:
?? when ?
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According to Wikipedia (so you know it must be right ;)),

"The event began as twin 100-mile (40-lap) races. From 1959–1971, the races were counted with points towards the Grand National championship. Purses awarded were counted separately from those awarded in the Daytona 500.... For 1972, NASCAR's modern era commenced, and the races were dropped from the Grand National schedule as points-paying championship events. As part of Winston's changes to the series, races were required to be at least 250 miles (400 km) to be included as official points events. The races continued, however, as a non-points event."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_125_qualifiers
 
Acs said:
So after taking the night to think about this:
Likes:
  • Regular season points leader rewarded
  • Wins in the chase grant bonus points
  • Points carry over for most of the chase
  • If we have to have segments, rewarding the winners
  • More graduated points scale for the race result
Dislike:
  • Repair restrictions meaning going to garage ends the day (I thought we wanted drivers to be more aggressive not less)
  • Segments and lying about why they are necessary (it's about ads you idiots not "moments")
  • Points carryover awkwardly stops when we get to homestead (Seems like Brian France just couldn't give up his game 7 moment)
  • TV networks are just going to cram more ads down our throats even during the segments, meaning more ad time not less
  • The amount of bonus points being awarded is insanely high

BOLD Prediction: The regular season will feature better racing and drivers going for wins more, but during the playoffs "points racing" will become even more blatant than last year. Like I said before, it's nice to reward the regular season champ, but I feel like the amount of points reward is so high as to essentially give them byes all the way to homestead. Last year for instance, Harvick had a 42 point cushion over Brad K going into the chase. Had these new rules been implemented, he would have had roughly 37 bonus points for the entire chase, while brad would have had 36 and Kyle 33. That's an almost unassailable lead. I think Gluck said it best in this video . The teams without regular season wins (or even multiple wins) are gonna be forced to win or else get eliminated. There is simply no way to points race your way through (ala Ryan Newman 2014) now going up against that many bonus points. So the result will be those top 4 drivers on bonus points riding around staying out of trouble because they can and everyone else needing wins in the chase to advance.
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Good post backed up by good analysis. I'm not worried about two or three drivers having insurmountable amounts of bonus points. Remember, the next couple guys probably have enough bonus points to be a threat. And if they don't, if the top three are that far ahead, then the top three should be the ones racing for the title because they earned it. Also, winners advance, so points racers are always at risk.

On balance, I like the changes a lot. I especially love the chase/playoff becoming more a full year meritocracy. I especially love the importance of the regular season being restored. I also love the point scale becoming slightly more graduated at the top.

I'm not fond of two cautions at the quarter post and halfway, but I'm willing to see how it plays out. I understand that some have an absolute, impenetrable philosophical barrier about any caution flag except for a serious on-track incident. I get that. And I hate phony debris cautions too. I just feel that it's better to have a scheduled stoppage than an arbitrary one, and I'm willing to let this play out. That's my $0.02.
 
MarcWiley said:
I like the format changes, I think we can say "all set" on that. Maybe some tweaks to the amount of bonus points, but that's really it. Now the powers that be need to focus on what will make the cars less aero dependent so they can race hard and stay consistently competivie in traffic. Perhaps now that they're done noodling all of the calculus that went into this poinrs system they can take a look at that.
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IMO, the 2016 cars were much better than previously, and 2017 will be improved further. And we also know Nascar is working on zero side force changes that may be next in line. Last year's racing was stunk up by Gibbs and TRD more than by aero dependency, IMO. At most tracks, the trailing car could run close behind the leading car, and often side by side. But when the leading car was a Toyota with a rear steer advantage, it would pull away.

Bottom line: I am optimistic about Nascar's reduced downforce era. It is emphasizing driver skill and making them work hard to compete.
 
LewTheShoe said:
IMO, the 2016 cars were much better than previously, and 2017 will be improved further. And we also know Nascar is working on zero side force changes that may be next in line. Last year's racing was stunk up by Gibbs and TRD more than by aero dependency, IMO. At most tracks, the trailing car could run close behind the leading car, and often side by side. But when the leading car was a Toyota with a rear steer advantage, it would pull away.

Bottom line: I am optimistic about Nascar's reduced downforce era. It is emphasizing driver skill and making them work hard to compete.
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I actually think what TRD did was use vents in the brake ducts to create additional front downforce that had previously been removed. Which I also believe is the reason they changed the aero rules surrounding them, and why nobody wanted foot cams at the road courses all of a sudden. Now that is pure speculation on my part, but I don't see them making a rule change in that regard if nobody was doing it. They're not that smart.

And I 115% agree with reducing sideforce as much as possible. That must be the next white whale if NASCAR is truly going to get on track competition to be fierce
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Format Recap:

• Races will now consist of three stages, with championship implications in each stage.
• The top-10 finishers of the first two stages will be awarded additional championship points.
• The winner of the first two stages of each race will receive one playoff point, and the race winner will receive five playoff points. Each playoff point will be added to his or her reset total following race No. 26, if that competitor makes the playoffs.
• All playoff points will carry through to the end of the third round of the playoffs (Round of 8), with the Championship 4 racing straight-up at Homestead-Miami Speedway for the title.
• Championship points following the first two stages will be awarded on a descending scale, with the stage winner receiving 10 points, second receiving 9 points, and so on.
• The race winner following the final stage will now receive 40 points, second-place will receive 35, third-place 34, fourth-place 33, and so on.
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three stooges.jpg
 
All of you hoping this would eliminate green flag commercials... lol nope. Think again.

http://jeffgordon.com/fox-nascar-an...mike-joy-discuss-enhanced-competition-format/

"The best part of the breaks is they could enable us to reduce green-flag TV commercials by as much as 20-percent.”-Mike Joy
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Up to 20%... gee whiz that doesn't sound like much. I was thinking more like 50%, or 80%, in return for completely f%&king the entire race format over. Remember folks, this isn't a sport, it's an elaborate marketing exercise designed to dupe us dumb rednecks into watching 40 rolling billboards driven by company spokespeople in between more commercials. Now shut up and buy this energy drink you dumb yokels, NASCAR says so.
 
Acs said:
All of you hoping this would eliminate green flag commercials... lol nope. Think again.

http://jeffgordon.com/fox-nascar-an...mike-joy-discuss-enhanced-competition-format/



Up to 20%... gee whiz that doesn't sound like much. I was thinking more like 50%, or 80%, in return for completely f%&king the entire race format over. Remember folks, this isn't a sport, it's an elaborate marketing exercise designed to dupe us dumb rednecks into watching 40 rolling billboards driven by company spokespeople in between more commercials. Now shut up and buy this energy drink you dumb yokels, NASCAR says so.
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All you need is a dvr and know how to use it to your advantage and then they won't be getting anything over on you.:)
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Hmm. Not sure what to make of that.

I will say if he had a problem with these changes he shouldn't have been on that stage last night.
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I think he is saying they are always driving as hard as they can
 
Acs said:
All of you hoping this would eliminate green flag commercials... lol nope. Think again.

Up to 20%... gee whiz that doesn't sound like much. I was thinking more like 50%, or 80%, in return for completely f%&king the entire race format over. Remember folks, this isn't a sport, it's an elaborate marketing exercise designed to dupe us dumb rednecks into watching 40 rolling billboards driven by company spokespeople in between more commercials. Now shut up and buy this energy drink you dumb yokels, NASCAR says so.
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20% more of a race to be seen is fine by me. I'll live with it.
 
Acs said:
All of you hoping this would eliminate green flag commercials... lol nope. Think again.
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They said it will reduce green flag commercials by 20%. There will still be about 20 min an hour of commercials just like all TV programming.
 
Acs said:
All of you hoping this would eliminate green flag commercials... lol nope. Think again.

http://jeffgordon.com/fox-nascar-an...mike-joy-discuss-enhanced-competition-format/



Up to 20%... gee whiz that doesn't sound like much. I was thinking more like 50%, or 80%, in return for completely f%&king the entire race format over. Remember folks, this isn't a sport, it's an elaborate marketing exercise designed to dupe us dumb rednecks into watching 40 rolling billboards driven by company spokespeople in between more commercials. Now shut up and buy this energy drink you dumb yokels, NASCAR says so.
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1. 20% is a significant reduction.

2. If you think ANY sport isn't just a big marketing scheme then you've got your head in the sand.
 
BobbyFord said:
That's a blanket question.
Open wheel cars? Not at all.
Stock cars? I used to, but increasingly less and less.
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Of course it's a blanket question. But the bottom line is this. It will still be stock cars going around a race track, going for wins and championships. Only now the regular season races will actuall help drivers in the post season, meaning every race matters, unlike the ridiculous lottery playoff system from the last 2 seasons. So there are 2 competition cautions a race?? There's a good chance for the teams to work some interesting strategy around those breaks if they so choose. I'm not saying you have to love it right now, I understand skepticism. But at least watch a few races, see how things play out, and then judge what you feel the racing quality is. But if you've never seen it on track, assuming you hate it is closed minded and absurd.
 
MarcWiley said:
Of course it's a blanket question. But the bottom line is this. It will still be stock cars going around a race track, going for wins and championships. Only now the regular season races will actuall help drivers in the post season, meaning every race matters, unlike the ridiculous lottery playoff system from the last 2 seasons. So there are 2 competition cautions a race?? There's a good chance for the teams to work some interesting strategy around those breaks if they so choose. I'm not saying you have to love it right now, I understand skepticism. But at least watch a few races, see how things play out, and then judge what you feel the racing quality is. But if you've never seen it on track, assuming you hate it is closed minded and absurd.
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Thanks, I wasn't looking for advice.
 
Acs said:
All of you hoping this would eliminate green flag commercials... lol nope. Think again.

http://jeffgordon.com/fox-nascar-an...mike-joy-discuss-enhanced-competition-format/



Up to 20%... gee whiz that doesn't sound like much. I was thinking more like 50%, or 80%, in return for completely f%&king the entire race format over. Remember folks, this isn't a sport, it's an elaborate marketing exercise designed to dupe us dumb rednecks into watching 40 rolling billboards driven by company spokespeople in between more commercials. Now shut up and buy this energy drink you dumb yokels, NASCAR says so.
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As long as I can remember racing has been about marketing. When we win a race in drag racing we have to stand by the car doing hat swaps for about 30 minutes. Different companies hand you a hat to put on so a bunch of photographers can take pictures for them. It's that way in just about all motorsports.
 
MarcWiley said:
Of course you weren't, you're stubborn. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna dole it out.:director:<_<
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Having a different opinion means I'm stubborn?
I've hated the Chase since its implementation. It was made worse by resetting the points.
Now they've added mandatory cautions and a goofy convoluted point system. Brian can't figure out what he's doing wrong.
 
BobbyFord said:
Having a different opinion means I'm stubborn?
I've hated the Chase since its implementation. It was made worse by resetting the points.
Now they've added mandatory cautions and a goofy convoluted point system. Brian can't figure out what he's doing wrong.
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No wonder Brian drinks so much
 
BobbyFord said:
Having a different opinion means I'm stubborn?
I've hated the Chase since its implementation. It was made worse by resetting the points.
Now they've added mandatory cautions and a goofy convoluted point system. Brian can't figure out what he's doing wrong.
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The "Chase" is gone you should be happy.
 
Now that it seems the crying has ended how do you guys think the races will change? If you have a decent car do you just try to hold position and finish as high as possible regardless of fuel strategy? Or if you have a dominant car that day do you just attempt to clean house points wise and rack em up?

I do like fuel mileage races and now you have to figure on how to balance both that and getting those stage points, definitely adds intrigue.

Also while I do not doubt for a second these guys are not racing hard the whole time as they are, I think it's important to realize they are pretty conservative early on fighting for spots. Yet with this new system it'll really encourage late model type racing where more aggressive moves are made earlier on.

Finally this is going to make plate races more than likely absolutely insane. While I don't think it'll mean wreck city, there's no denying things will get frisky up front for those stage spots. Also this really sets up for BK who I would say is the dominant plate racer rn. He has that side draft down perfect


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I don't think it will change anything. The teams are smarter than NASCAR, chances are there will be sweeping changes mid-season by NASCAR to save face after someone finds a way to exploit the system. It wreaks of team order racing.
 
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oh yes good point return, I forgot about team orders! Esp with 5 big teams and 31 cars!
 
This would have been a great format for the Truck and Xfinity series. However, NASCAR has always been about endurance and I feel like all Cup races should be 3+ hour races without any "breaks" or "entertainment" manipulation.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I can't wait to see the forum blow a gasket when the first 'competition caution' is thrown in the first half of the first segment.

A few here are going to absolutely lose it.
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That reminds me. Say it rains like heck Saturday night. Will NASCAR still add the 'green track' competition caution we've come to know and love, knowing in advance that there will be another CC at the 25% point?
 
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