The changes have arrived.

[LewTheShoe]

I belong to a couple of hunting and fishing forums also. When the subject of Nascar comes up there is little interest. There are always posts by people who claim to have been fans in the past but don't like any change. Some still think the cars should be showroom stock. They don't get how many drivers would be maimed or killed without today's safety improvements. Not to mention how poor the racing would be because of the huge discrepancy in horsepower and handling.

Welcome. Hope you will participate here often. I agree with your post. I'll warn you that many here would fit right in with your hunting pals. LOL.

 

[SlicedBread22]

This is a fun one to read through.

 

[Simple Fan]

As a LONG TIME (1959) race fan, I've had about enough of NASCARs crazy once-a month rules changes.
I think I'll just switch to the golf channel... and ask Charlotte Motor Speedway if I there's any way I can have my 50 Year Club plaque that's on the wall there.

I guess Brian France read that Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus was closing down, so the head clown, Brian "Emmett Kelly" France decided he's pick up where they left off.
NASCAR needs to go back to racing CARS that actually resemble what they're supposed to be representing, dump the ludicrous Chase, and go back to the original points racing system.

If you've been a fan since 59 change should be nothing new to you. The original points system was based on purse money and they made a bunch of changes until 75 when the modern points system was created. These cars are as close as you are going get to production cars for safety reasons. You also don't have manufacturers making V8 sedans anymore either as times have changed. It's a different time and NASCAR is in another period of change, let's just hope they have found the future points system that last 30 years before changing again.

 

[sloggie]

The problem is not the point system or racing harder during the first 26 races (except the plate races). It's the cars are so planted into the track and so aero dependent, it makes passing tougher. A number of drivers have admitted passing is hard at some tracks. Telling them to race harder isn't going to fix that.

If NASCAR hasn't figured this out by now, they never will. Maybe they should bring a wind tunnel to every race and fail cars for having too much downforce.

 

[kymartin6]

Good to see you here. Welcome to an old timer who isn't afraid of a little change.
I swear some on here still wear long johns with the trap door all year round.

I take offence to that statement Pete...... I threw out my longjohns with the trap door years ago..... after 30 years... they were getting pretty ratty ..... I bought new ones about 10 years ago..... I kinda' miss the trap door.....


and...... for your information.... I don't wear them year round..... I usually give 'em a rest during the month of July........

 

[Greg]

I am trying to be a good positive little Nascarketeer. God bless Brian for trying to 'make racing exciting'. It has to be tough. God bless Les France Kennedy too, and young Ben Kennedy. I just cant help falling in love with Ben, and the hope that he inspires, that just maybe Brians work will be carrried on long past my lifetime. I think I love him.

I remember how I used to tell my son about Anne Bledsoe France and how much Nascar has been blessed by her. Behind those hawt bookkeeping glasses was the wheels that kept every thing turning. I doubt that we could have won World War II without her inspiration. I am still bitter that Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, Lee Petty, Jr Johnson, David Pearson, Bobby, Cale and Darrell got in the HoF before her, Have they no shame?

Lets all just twirl and dance around like pixie'd leotarded Michael Waltrips, all about how great, fantastic and all the superlatives they deserve. Yes all the faithful just gather around the Frances and keep the faith.

Oh Hell no. The Chase sucks, the cookie cutters suck, caution clocks suck. The high downforce, HP reduction in 2015 was from the mind of an imbecile, that has no clue.

Brian is Nascars worst disease, a tick driven to suck up everything while giving nothing.

Still the same I plan on making the best of it, and I am cheerfully looking forward to this season.

 

[jws926]

You also don't have manufacturers making V8 sedans anymore either as times have changed.

Well, not so fast, here are a few current sedans you can get with a V8
Dodge Charger
Chevy SS(going out of production)
Chrysler 300
AMG C63 Sedan
S550 Sedan
S550 4MATIC Sedan
AMG S63 Sedan
BMW 5-Series (select models)
MBW 6-Series( Select Models)
BMW 7-Series(Select Models
Lexus GS F
Lexus LS/Sport
Infiniti Q70 5.6
Q70L
Audi A8
Audi S7/RS7
Audi S6 4.0/RS 6 4.0
Audi S5 4.2/RS5 4.2

 

[ToyYoda]

Well, not so fast, here are a few current sedans you can get with a V8
Dodge Charger
Chevy SS(going out of production)
Chrysler 300
AMG C63 Sedan
S550 Sedan
S550 4MATIC Sedan
AMG S63 Sedan
BMW 5-Series (select models)
MBW 6-Series( Select Models)
BMW 7-Series(Select Models
Lexus GS F
Lexus LS/Sport
Infiniti Q70 5.6
Q70L
Audi A8
Audi S7/RS7
Audi S6 4.0/RS 6 4.0
Audi S5 4.2/RS5 4.2

Add the Korean twins Genesis G80 and Kia K900 to the list as well.

 

[darlingtonfan]

I was at a car show the other weekend and they had a big turnout with performance cars there.There are still a lot of people involved in performance cars,surprisingly a big millennial group was there with Challengers,Mustangs and Camaros.My neighbor,68 years young had his 1994 Toyota Supra there,that's an awesome car.Nascar needs to find a way to connect with this group,I felt out of place wearing my Nascar hat.

 

[Simple Fan]

Well, not so fast, here are a few current sedans you can get with a V8
Dodge Charger
Chevy SS(going out of production)
Chrysler 300
AMG C63 Sedan
S550 Sedan
S550 4MATIC Sedan
AMG S63 Sedan
BMW 5-Series (select models)
MBW 6-Series( Select Models)
BMW 7-Series(Select Models
Lexus GS F
Lexus LS/Sport
Infiniti Q70 5.6
Q70L
Audi A8
Audi S7/RS7
Audi S6 4.0/RS 6 4.0
Audi S5 4.2/RS5 4.2

I know they make them but not like they did. None of those are in NASCAR and the one that is is getting discontinued. I'd love to see Audi, BMW, and Dodge all in NASCAR though.

My point though was that demand for the cars that made NASCAR popular went away and manufacturers started making more fuel efficient cars. Now dropping the V8s to follow manufacturers trends would be a bad change in my opinion and I'd imagine a lot others. I think these cars look more like their production models than cars of the late 90s and 2000s and they are a lot safer as well.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

I belong to a couple of hunting and fishing forums also. When the subject of Nascar comes up there is little interest. There are always posts by people who claim to have been fans in the past but don't like any change. Some still think the cars should be showroom stock. They don't get how many drivers would be maimed or killed without today's safety improvements. Not to mention how poor the racing would be because of the huge discrepancy in horsepower and handling.

It is a real shame that Nascar and so many of the longtime fans that supported the series for so many years had to part company. I was talking to a buddy of mine yesterday that used to be a diehard fan for many, many years. The main reasons he left were because of the chase, CoT, rules changing all the time, and it really pissed him off that he was paying full boat retail for his seats at the track and the guy sitting in front of him payed less than half with some track promotion. He wrote letters and made phone calls but never got any satisfaction so he said to heck with Nascar.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

I am trying to be a good positive little Nascarketeer. God bless Brian for trying to 'make racing exciting'. It has to be tough. God bless Les France Kennedy too, and young Ben Kennedy. I just cant help falling in love with Ben, and the hope that he inspires, that just maybe Brians work will be carrried on long past my lifetime. I think I love him.

I remember how I used to tell my son about Anne Bledsoe France and how much Nascar has been blessed by her. Behind those hawt bookkeeping glasses was the wheels that kept every thing turning. I doubt that we could have won World War II without her inspiration. I am still bitter that Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, Lee Petty, Jr Johnson, David Pearson, Bobby, Cale and Darrell got in the HoF before her, Have they no shame?

Lets all just twirl and dance around like pixie'd leotarded Michael Waltrips, all about how great, fantastic and all the superlatives they deserve. Yes all the faithful just gather around the Frances and keep the faith.

Oh Hell no. The Chase sucks, the cookie cutters suck, caution clocks suck. The high downforce, HP reduction in 2015 was from the mind of an imbecile, that has no clue.

Brian is Nascars worst disease, a tick driven to suck up everything while giving nothing.

Still the same I plan on making the best of it, and I am cheerfully looking forward to this season.

Brian's Mama contained more plastic than a lego set.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

I know they make them but not like they did. None of those are in NASCAR and the one that is is getting discontinued. I'd love to see Audi, BMW, and Dodge all in NASCAR though.

My point though was that demand for the cars that made NASCAR popular went away and manufacturers started making more fuel efficient cars. Now dropping the V8s to follow manufacturers trends would be a bad change in my opinion and I'd imagine a lot others. I think these cars look more like their production models than cars of the late 90s and 2000s and they are a lot safer as well.

IMO Nascar should have kept current with what was being sold in showrooms as opposed to the flight of fancy we have today. I don't think it is a lot to ask that if a manufacturer wants to race a 2 door, V8, RWD car that they actually produce one. I don't think most people give a fig about though.

 

[jws926]

Add the Korean twins Genesis G80 and Kia K900 to the list as well.

Ahh yes, I forgot all about the Korean twins, those Genesis's are very nice.

 

[Clutch]

Good to see you here. Welcome to an old timer who isn't afraid of a little change.
I swear some on here still wear long johns with the trap door all year round.

I still have a set.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Well, not so fast, here are a few current sedans you can get with a V8
Dodge Charger
Chevy SS(going out of production)
Chrysler 300
AMG C63 Sedan
S550 Sedan
S550 4MATIC Sedan
AMG S63 Sedan
BMW 5-Series (select models)
MBW 6-Series( Select Models)
BMW 7-Series(Select Models
Lexus GS F
Lexus LS/Sport
Infiniti Q70 5.6
Q70L
Audi A8
Audi S7/RS7
Audi S6 4.0/RS 6 4.0
Audi S5 4.2/RS5 4.2

Add the Korean twins Genesis G80 and Kia K900 to the list as well.

I notice only one of those manufacturers participates in NASCAR (Chevy).

Say they wanted into NASCAR. How many of those production V8's are rear-wheel drive? How many have a wheel base that would be allowed under current rules?

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Brian France is not a student of K.I.S.S. is he?

He was when he came up with the last point system he just abandoned. You remember, the one he claimed everyone wanted because it one point per position was easier to understand than multiple points per position.

'SQUIRREL!'

 

[Charlie Spencer]

... it really pissed him off that he was paying full boat retail for his seats at the track and the guy sitting in front of him payed less than half with some track promotion. He wrote letters and made phone calls but never got any satisfaction so he said to heck with Nascar.

I suggest he not ask how much people around him paid for a ticket at any sporting event. He won't like the answer there either. Tiered and discount pricing practices aren't unique to NASCAR, or even to sports.

I -strongly- suggest he not ask how much the guy next to him on the plane paid for his ticket. When he gets where he's going, he shouldn't ask about the hotel prices either.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I am trying to be a good positive little Nascarketeer. God bless Brian for trying to 'make racing exciting'. It has to be tough. God bless Les France Kennedy too, and young Ben Kennedy. I just cant help falling in love with Ben, and the hope that he inspires, that just maybe Brians work will be carrried on long past my lifetime. I think I love him.

Say what you will about Ben, but at least he's had his butt in driver's seat under competition conditions. Regardless of where Ben finished, that's something that Brian "I don't even go to the races" France can say.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

IMO Nascar should have kept current with what was being sold in showrooms as opposed to the flight of fancy we have today. I don't think it is a lot to ask that if a manufacturer wants to race a 2 door, V8, RWD car that they actually produce one. I don't think most people give a fig about though.

Slap six cylinder engines in them. After the engine specialists and crew chiefs chew on them for a couple of years, would the racing be any less competitive?

Don't tell me about them sounding different or anything else that isn't related to how well they race. How they race is all I care about.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I still have a set.

And I swear I will never again live anywhere I need them.

 

[Brigeton]

It doesn't matter much to me if the points are a little more complicated. If you watch the post race or race hub or go to Nascar.com they'll tell you what the points standings are. I don't have to figure them out with a pencil and paper.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

It doesn't matter much to me if the points are a little more complicated. If you watch the post race or race hub or go to Nascar.com they'll tell you what the points standings are. I don't have to figure them out with a pencil and paper.

Yep. Like always after a race..... If you're at the track, the points will be shown on the big screens. If you're watching on television, the points will be displayed during the post race. If you're listening to the radio, they'll tell you what they are. No calculator necessary.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Yep. Like always after a race..... If you're at the track, the points will be shown on the big screens. If you're watching on television, the points will be displayed during the post race. If you're listening to the radio, they'll tell you what they are. No calculator necessary.

Most of the impact will be on those fantasy players who will die if they don't know where they stand at every moment. They're not unique to NASCAR. You can find them at any sporting event, spending more time staring at their stats on the phone than watching the actual competition they paid to see (probably discounted tickets )

 

[dpkimmel2001]

Most of the impact will be on those fantasy players who will die if they don't know where they stand at every moment. They're not unique to NASCAR. You can find them at any sporting event, spending more time staring at their stats on the phone than watching the actual competition they paid to see (probably discounted tickets )

I don't know what all the other fantasy games are doing but Yahoo Fantasy Racing is business as usual. It's going to be based on the races final finishing order. Chase bonus points are not going to be taken into account.

 

[Brigeton]

I gave up on fantasy racing. No matter who I pick they crash that week.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

I gave up on fantasy racing. No matter who I pick they crash that week.

Now, that sounds like a 'gift' that you may have. You could probably sell your services.

 

[BobbyFord]

It is a real shame that Nascar and so many of the longtime fans that supported the series for so many years had to part company. I was talking to a buddy of mine yesterday that used to be a diehard fan for many, many years. The main reasons he left were because of the chase, CoT, rules changing all the time, and it really pissed him off that he was paying full boat retail for his seats at the track and the guy sitting in front of him payed less than half with some track promotion. He wrote letters and made phone calls but never got any satisfaction so he said to heck with Nascar.

I wrote a pretty long letter to the president of ACS a couple of years ago. ACS is owned by ISC so I knew NASCAR would hear my words.
I explained the negative feelings I had with all of the constant changes and gimmicks. I told him my history as a fan, my history at Auto Club Speedway and that I was having trouble deciding whether I was going to renew my seats. About a week later he responded and explained how long he'd been a fan of NASCAR and how he became involved in the sport. He didn't really address any of my specific concerns. It was basically a response from a corporate mouthpiece telling me how NASCAR was great and that I should put aside my reservations and embrace the "necessary" changes. Well, I put aside my reservations and gave it a chance. What followed was more changes, more gimmicks, more separation from NASCAR's roots.
I'm going to go to Vegas and ACS this year because I have tickets and because I have obligations to family and friends. This will be the last year that I waste my money on NASCAR.
I hope NASCAR pulls it's head out of it's corporate ass.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I don't know what all the other fantasy games are doing but Yahoo Fantasy Racing is business as usual. It's going to be based on the races final finishing order. Chase bonus points are not going to be taken into account.

I'm going to poll my players this week and see what they want to do - finishing order points only, or finishing order AND segments.

We never bothered with Chase round bonuses anyway. I don't know of a league that does; maybe the 'draft and trade' leagues do.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

I'm going to poll my players this week and see what they want to do - finishing order points only, or finishing order AND segments.

If you're the one that's running the thing, make it easy on yourself. Finishing order points only.

 

[Team Penske]

I take offence to that statement Pete...... I threw out my longjohns with the trap door years ago..... after 30 years... they were getting pretty ratty ..... I bought new ones about 10 years ago..... I kinda' miss the trap door.....


and...... for your information.... I don't wear them year round..... I usually give 'em a rest during the month of July........

That's probably because that month you had your yearly bath.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I gave up on fantasy racing. No matter who I pick they crash that week.

We toyed with the notion of a 'lowest points wins' league for just that reason.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

If you're the one that's running the thing, make it easy on yourself. Finishing order points only.

Small league, usually 15 - 18 players.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

I suggest he not ask how much people around him paid for a ticket at any sporting event. He won't like the answer there either. Tiered and discount pricing practices aren't unique to NASCAR, or even to sports.

I -strongly- suggest he not ask how much the guy next to him on the plane paid for his ticket. When he gets where he's going, he shouldn't ask about the hotel prices either.

He didn't ask he was told and was justifiably perturbed that he was being charged face value for tickets that were being discounted heavily especially given the fact he had been a season ticket holder for many years. He did not want something for nothing but just to be treated the same as those around him.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

I'm going to poll my players this week and see what they want to do - finishing order points only, or finishing order AND segments.

We never bothered with Chase round bonuses anyway. I don't know of a league that does; maybe the 'draft and trade' leagues do.

Points should be awarded to the guy running in 7th place on lap 64......

 

[dpkimmel2001]

He didn't ask he was told and was justifiably perturbed that he was being charged face value for tickets that were being discounted heavily especially given the fact he had been a season ticket holder for many years. He did not want something for nothing but just to be treated the same as those around him.

I've had the opposite experience, several times, with tracks that I've visited. The most recent was when I received an ad from Martinsville promoting free Garage/Pit Passes with the purchase of two tickets. I called the ticket office asking, What about those of us that already bought tickets and are long time season ticket holders? Where's our free passes? A few minutes later, passes arrived via email.

I've also fought places tooth and nail, like Richmond. I purchased season tickets when they built that huge grandstand going into turn #1. Isle seats, top row. Only catch was, in order to retain those seats, you had to purchase the IRL tickets too. I am not an IRL fan and wasn't going to make the 900+ mile round trip to watch those races. I couldn't even give those tickets away. I ate the cost for two years. I finally called the track to tell them I wanted my seats but I did not want to have the IRL tickets included. They wouldn't budge. I haven't been back since.

 

[Simple Fan]

Slap six cylinder engines in them. After the engine specialists and crew chiefs chew on them for a couple of years, would the racing be any less competitive?

Don't tell me about them sounding different or anything else that isn't related to how well they race. How they race is all I care about.

I couldn't get behind it. I like speed and that would make cars slower. I guess you short track fans really aren't about speed though. I know you said not to but the sound would be way different. Don't know if you have ever been to a race but the sound of those cars is awesome. You don't even have to be at the track to feel their power. Whatever they do they can't drop V8s.

 

[Nitro Dude]

It is a real shame that Nascar and so many of the longtime fans that supported the series for so many years had to part company. I was talking to a buddy of mine yesterday that used to be a diehard fan for many, many years. The main reasons he left were because of the chase, CoT, rules changing all the time, and it really pissed him off that he was paying full boat retail for his seats at the track and the guy sitting in front of him payed less than half with some track promotion. He wrote letters and made phone calls but never got any satisfaction so he said to heck with Nascar.

Doesn't most events in life have promotions trying to a attract new fans or customers? Heck if you buy an airplane ticket a few months early then you may pay half of what someone would pay the day of the flight. I'm going to a car show tomorrow at the convention center in LA and if I buy my tickets on line they are $5.00 cheaper then if I buy them at the door. There has been all kinds of different promotions for free tickets earlier in the week. I think promotions are good. It may give some people that may not have been able to afford the tickets a chance to purchase some. Gyms have a different promotion just about every other day trying to attract new customers.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

I couldn't get behind it. I like speed and that would make cars slower. I guess you short track fans really aren't about speed though. I know you said not to but the sound would be way different. Don't know if you have ever been to a race but the sound of those cars is awesome. You don't even have to be at the track to feel their power. Whatever they do they can't drop V8s.

You are in communication with a guy that firmly believes that there is no replacement for displacement as I have a Vette and a 5.7 liter Tundra sitting in the garage along with another vehicle with a 3.5 liter V6 that develops just under 300 hp. If you think that for racing purposes a V6 cannot be built that compares to a V8 you are mistaken and with regard to speed the average Joe can't tell the difference between 160 and 190 mph. For my ear there is nothing like the sound of a small block V8 (especially a GM V8) or a big block with a lumpy stick though.

Many people enjoy short track racing because of the genuine close competition and in general it puts driver skill front and center more so than cookie cutters.

 

[Greg]

Say what you will about Ben, but at least he's had his butt in driver's seat under competition conditions. Regardless of where Ben finished, that's something that Brian "I don't even go to the races" France can say.

Excellent point, and I was questioning my sainty for the post afterwards. Maybe Ben wil be in a postion to restore some good things, he could be all the things that Brian can never be.