The changes have arrived.

It looks like there are a lot of fans on here that are going to give these changes a chance and may really like them in the end. I hope these changes make the racing a lot more exciting for us fans. It sucks watching a boring race when the drivers don't give 100% on every lap of the race.
 
Sounds like every race will have an All-Star -like race format. :mad: Ugh.

Last year, I had to stop watching the All-Star race after the first segment because it was a gimmicky mess. Hopefully, it won't be as bad with full-length races!
 
kk5fan said:
I'm tired of the "I don't want no changes" purist old guys.

And before you insult me, please be advised I'm 55 and have watched since the 70's.
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Before you call people like me "purist old guys," please be advised I'm a 22 y/o millennial- the type of fan NASCAR is trying to attract.

EDIT: Actually, there is a big change I'd like to see: the end of our stupid playoff format!
 
I was really skeptical leading up to the 6pm press conference yesterday. I went into the announcement with a negative feeling towards it but came out surprised that I really didn't hate it. It's definitely a system that rewards hard racing throughout the event. I'm looking forward to watching this all play out throughout the races and the season. The benefits of have a driver that is a hard charger will be tremendous when they enter that first race of the Chase.

How many times have we read that the races don't matter to a driver once they've earned their Chase spot? How they're just working on things leading up to the first Chase race? It's obvious, looking at the breakdown, they can't afford to do that unless they also want to give up a huge advantage that they are capable of achieving.

I guess, if you're on the side that doesn't like this change, you're really in for a tough time. I feel for ya. It's going to be a long season.....


Format Recap:

• Races will now consist of three stages, with championship implications in each stage.
• The top-10 finishers of the first two stages will be awarded additional championship points.
• The winner of the first two stages of each race will receive one playoff point, and the race winner will receive five playoff points. Each playoff point will be added to his or her reset total following race No. 26, if that competitor makes the playoffs.
• All playoff points will carry through to the end of the third round of the playoffs (Round of 8), with the Championship 4 racing straight-up at Homestead-Miami Speedway for the title.
• Championship points following the first two stages will be awarded on a descending scale, with the stage winner receiving 10 points, second receiving 9 points, and so on.
• The race winner following the final stage will now receive 40 points, second-place will receive 35, third-place 34, fourth-place 33, and so on.

http://www.mrn.com/Race-Series/NASC...2017/01/NASCAR-Announces-New-Race-Format.aspx
 
I'm not buying this notion that it's going to force guys to get up on the wheel. When have we had the problem of a Jeff Gordon cruising in the back of the pack at a Martinsville just trying to salvage a good points day? Or a Kyle Busch just content with running 20th at a 1.5 track because he's already won a few races? Testing or not, these guys are out to gain as many positions as they can every week. What I described above is a plate track issue and I've yet to see it happen anywhere else.

As I said in another thread, listen to these guys interview any race weekend you want and you'll hear how every position matters, how track position is key/king. And to me, the racing and their effort has shown that. The issue this sport has is not with the effort of its competitors, it's in the cars, tires, racing surfaces, areo, and over-engineering. And that's been the consensus here since I've been a poster. Now suddenly NASCAR has tricked a lot of people into thinking that the issue is that the drivers and teams just aren't trying hard...BS.
 
ToyYoda said:
... I'm also not crazy about the fact that the race winner can come away with fewer points than drivers that finish behind them.
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I thought about this on the way to work. I decided one thing I wasn't crazy about in the existing system is how a driver can lead only the last lap and get more points that the guy who lead 99% of the race. Some may not have a problem with that, but for me the new model does a better job of awarding points based on the performance throughout the complete race.

Just one idjit's opinion.
 
ToyYoda said:
There are a few good aspects in this latest round of changes, but the constant changes do get a little tiresome. This will be the 6th points/championship format in 15 seasons for Cup. I think NASCAR is sending the message that they don't really believe in their own product since they feel the need to constantly change it.
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That's something my wife pointed out, and she's not even a race fan. @BobbyFord and I have been dueling over the impact of rules changes on the sports popularity. We don't agree on much, but I'll suspect we do agree that changing the rules every two or three years definitely does not help, regardless of the specific changes.
 
sky said:
This 22-year-old can vouch we don't like that sh!t either
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Im 23 and havent been in favor of any chase format since 2004.

Every time NASCAR makes a change they claim "its what the fans have been asking for". What a load of crap. This whole Chase started because NASCAR said fans complained about "the matt kenseth season". Again, what a load of crap. They dont listen to fans and never will.
 
I'll just wait and see how it works.

I get annoyed with constant changes. It is like 20 years of Windows OS changes - trying to figure out if the changes are better or worse (there's probably an analogy from Windows 3.1 to Windows 7 to Windows 10 with NASCAR driver/owners to big sponsors to multicar teams).
 
Zerkfitting said:
I'll just wait and see how it works.

I get annoyed with constant changes. It is like 20 years of Windows OS changes - trying to figure out if the changes are better or worse (there's probably an analogy from Windows 3.1 to Windows 7 to Windows 10 with NASCAR driver/owners to big sponsors to multicar teams).
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Keep telling us how much better the new version is than the old one, and don't give us the option to not change. I wonder if NASCAR and Microsoft use the same marketing firm? o_O
 
AdoubleU24 said:
I'm not buying this notion that it's going to force guys to get up on the wheel. When have we had the problem of a Jeff Gordon cruising in the back of the pack at a Martinsville just trying to salvage a good points day? Or a Kyle Busch just content with running 20th at a 1.5 track because he's already won a few races? Testing or not, these guys are out to gain as many positions as they can every week. What I described above is a plate track issue and I've yet to see it happen anywhere else.

As I said in another thread, listen to these guys interview any race weekend you want and you'll hear how every position matters, how track position is key/king. And to me, the racing and their effort has shown that. The issue this sport has is not with the effort of its competitors, it's in the cars, tires, racing surfaces, areo, and over-engineering. And that's been the consensus here since I've been a poster. Now suddenly NASCAR has tricked a lot of people into thinking that the issue is that the drivers and teams just aren't trying hard...BS.
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I seriously doubt much will change in how the drivers race the races as unless you are going for the actual race win it is complete stupidity to jeopardize your entire day by stupidly trying to gain a position. If I am wrong Nascar will turn into a quasi demo derby with lots of wrecks, drivers getting nerfed and hooked into the wall and even less viewers when their faves get knocked out in the first segment.
 
R Clarence said:
Yeah.

Winning the race by being the first one across the finish line is old school thinking.
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Imagine a driver that is running second or third most of the day saving his car for one final push at the end in a race he wins getting more points than the first and second loser. Heresy!.
 
The new system:

  • At the end of the race, the winner will get 40 points, and second through 35th will be awarded points on a 35-to-2 scale. Those finishing 36th to 40th will be awarded one point. There will be no bonus points for leading a lap or leading the most laps. I like

  • NASCAR will award points to the top-10 drivers (on a 10-to-1 scale) at the end of each of the first two stages. The number of laps for each of the first two stages will be the same (and won't change if the caution comes out), and the end of the second stage will be approximately at the halfway point of the race. If it rains, a race would be official after the second stage. This is major. I will have to see it

  • Drivers will now carry bonus points -- called "playoff points" -- throughout the entire playoffs (instead of just the first round) when the points get reset. Drivers will earn five playoff points for every race win and one playoff point for every stage win. The top-10 drivers in the standings in the regular season also earn additional playoff points on a 15-10-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 scale. Drivers will continue to accumulate points throughout the playoffs and carry all the points earned during the year into each of the first three playoff rounds. This is good

  • Qualifying for the playoffs remains the same -- the regular-season champion and 15 drivers based on wins (with ties broken by points) will get into the playoffs, as long as they are in the top 30 in the standings. check

  • The playoffs will remain divided into three three-race rounds, with four drivers eliminated after each round to set up four finalists for the season finale at Homestead-Miami Speedway. Drivers automatically qualify into the next round with a win in that playoff round, and the remaining spots will filled via the point standings. At Homestead, the top-finishing driver (among the four finalists) at the end of the race wins the title. Didn't like it before, still don't

  • The race purse will be paid at the final stage.check

  • The 150-mile qualifying races at Daytona will be worth points to the top-10 drivers on a 10-to-1 scale (just like a race stage), but the winners do not get bonus points for the playoffs. doesn't matter to me

  • NASCAR won't allow teams to replace body panels during a race, and teams will have additional limitations on crash repair that likely will mean most drivers who have to go to the garage won't return for that race. This might be good or bad Some wrecks don't belong on the track. Some get repaired well enough to contend
http://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/s...ar-changing-points-system-reward-drivers-race

 
The problem is not the point system or racing harder during the first 26 races (except the plate races). It's the cars are so planted into the track and so aero dependent, it makes passing tougher. A number of drivers have admitted passing is hard at some tracks. Telling them to race harder isn't going to fix that.
 
Pat said:
Think he is trying to say something?


Dale Earnhardt Jr. ‏@DaleJr Jan 22

I get a good laugh when I hear things like: "Should encourage harder racing" "Points racing" My cheeks gonna hurt tomorrow.
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Hmm. Not sure what to make of that.

I will say if he had a problem with these changes he shouldn't have been on that stage last night.
 
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Skoalbandit33 said:
Imagine a driver that is running second or third most of the day saving his car for one final push at the end in a race he wins getting more points than the first and second loser. Heresy!.
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Yeah, I wondered about that one myself. On the other hand, we know the first place team doesn't always get the most money, second doesn't always get more than third, etc. This applies to both races and the season. We've managed to live with that for decades with rarely a mention.
 
One change I can see happening is the first and second segments not being allowed to run the final few laps under caution. I expect that will be addressed after the first time it happens as Nascar won't like seeing things end naturally. So boys and girls it will give us more opportunities for OVERTIME.

Another inevitability I see is teams being able to use multiple cars. Lets say Paul Menard runs out of talent and causes and early wreck that takes out half the HMS, JGR and SHR cars so they are all done for the day. I see a scenario where those guys will be able to get out backup cars to compete in the second and third segments and believe it or not I would not have a problem with it.
 
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Skoalbandit33 said:
One change I can see happening is the first and second segments not being allowed to run the final few laps under caution. I expect that will be addressed after the first time it happens as Nascar won't like seeing things end naturally. So boys and girls it will give us more opportunities for OVERTIME.

Another inevitability I see is teams being able to use multiple cars. Lets say Paul Menard runs out of talent and causes and early wreck that takes out half the HMS, JGR and SHR cars so they are all done for the day. I see a scenario where those guys will be able to get out backup cars to compete in the second and third segments and believe it or not I would not have a problem with it.
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Why does it have to be Paul Menard? What's up with that? :)
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
One change I can see happening is the first and second segments not being allowed to run the final few laps under caution. I expect that will be addressed after the first time it happens as Nascar won't like seeing things end naturally. So boys and girls it will give us more opportunities for OVERTIME.

Another inevitability I see is teams being able to use multiple cars. Lets say Paul Menard runs out of talent and causes and early wreck that takes out half the HMS, JGR and SHR cars so they are all done for the day. I see a scenario where those guys will be able to get out backup cars to compete in the second and third segments and believe it or not I would not have a problem with it.
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Nope and nope. They were asked specifically about each during the press conference. They did say that they had gone back and forth over allowing segments to finish under caution but decided to allow it, so it's just like a competition caution. They also said the rules for backup cars are just the same as before as if it were one race. They did however announce unspecified changes to allowed repairs.
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
Before you call people like me "purist old guys," please be advised I'm a 22 y/o millennial- the type of fan NASCAR is trying to attract.

EDIT: Actually, there is a big change I'd like to see: the end of our stupid playoff format!
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I'm 24 and I love the playoff. Feel like this new format might make it better but I liked it the way it was. NASCAR doesn't need a champion crowned before the season is up. Everything they have done is to make every race important and not having a playoff could potentially make the last couple of races pointless.
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
Sounds like every race will have an All-Star -like race format. :mad: Ugh.

Last year, I had to stop watching the All-Star race after the first segment because it was a gimmicky mess. Hopefully, it won't be as bad with full-length races!
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These are for points so they are now racing for money again.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I seriously doubt much will change in how the drivers race the races as unless you are going for the actual race win it is complete stupidity to jeopardize your entire day by stupidly trying to gain a position. If I am wrong Nascar will turn into a quasi demo derby with lots of wrecks, drivers getting nerfed and hooked into the wall and even less viewers when their faves get knocked out in the first segment.
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When they talked about taking risks for segment rewards or to win the race, it's not just standing on the gas. They also talked about strategy choices that have risk... when to pit, taking 4 or 2 or maybe gas only, deciding to run hard versus managing your tires for a longer stint, etc. So that is part of it.

I think recent results have shown clearly that, when incentives are offered, the teams respond to capitalize on them.
 
Acs said:
Nope and nope. They were asked specifically about each during the press conference. They did say that they had gone back and forth over allowing segments to finish under caution but decided to allow it, so it's just like a competition caution. They also said the rules for backup cars are just the same as before as if it were one race. They did however announce unspecified changes to allowed repairs.
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With all due respect though how many times has Nascar said something and then changed it?
 
I just don't see any possible way this improves ratings or attendance.

Nobody is looking over at their neighbor today and saying "Hey Jim, did you hear what them NASCAR boys are doing this year?? Sounds exciting!"

No lie, my girlfriend that I introduced to the sport last July-ish in Daytona (she loves it btw, she's become an avid fan) absolutely hates these changes. She said to me last night if she was a new person just now starting to follow the sport she'd have no clue what in the hell was going on. My father who introduced me to the sport 22 years ago is also appalled that the Daytona 500 is going to be run in this manner.
 
LewTheShoe said:
When they talked about taking risks for segment rewards or to win the race, it's not just standing on the gas. They also talked about strategy choices that have risk... when to pit, taking 4 or 2 or maybe gas only, deciding to run hard versus managing your tires for a longer stint, etc. So that is part of it.

I think recent results have shown clearly that, when incentives are offered, the teams respond to capitalize on them.
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One reason I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater is I need to see how these changes actually work or if they work. With shorter races (segments) I can see drivers being far less patient in getting around a driver who is holding them up and can see restarts as being more reckless than many of them are already. There could potentially be more pit road miscues as drivers and teams search for tenths of seconds and maybe some lesser lights not pitting for tires at all and attempting to hold whatever position the can by being out front. I can envision the unintended consequence of the races actually slowing down due to more cautions and clean up because the drivers will be taking on track risks where many don't pan out.

I freely admit I may have a completely incorrect view of what will transpire and I truly hope I do.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
... My father who introduced me to the sport 22 years ago is also appalled that the Daytona 500 is going to be run in this manner.
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I see comments like this one and I always wonder why the D500 is singled out. Is it just that race? Is your Dad okay with the changes as long as they apply only to the other 35 races?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I see comments like this one and I always wonder why the D500 is singled out. Is it just that race? Is your Dad okay with the changes as long as they apply only to the other 35 races?
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No his first question was "What are they doing to NASCAR?" to which I replied "Whatever they want to."

He then asked if it was for every race which I confirmed. Which he hated. He just singled out Daytona as it is sacred ground to him I guess.
 
kk5fan said:
I'm tired of the "I don't want no changes" purist old guys.

And before you insult me, please be advised I'm 55 and have watched since the 70's.
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Right, changes every year like we are getting is good. Eventually they "may" get it right.

actually, I don't care anymore as I have basically stopped watching Nascar.
 
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