The phenomenon of title contenders winning the final race.

2 Sweet said:
It's not "certain teams"....just the Final 4. And "cheating" is too strong of a word.

Who is going to the media? Nobody. Because what proof would they have? Nobody here is saying NASCAR gave them some of Mikey's rocket fuel. Nobody is saying Goodyear gave them "special" tires. Nobody is saying NASCAR would allow blatant violations.

NASCAR builds up so much hype for this playoff format and the showdown at Homestead, I think they would do whatever they can (within reason) to ensure it's as entertaining as possible. Giving these teams a little more leeway in a very discrete manner isn't that hard to believe.
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If you are letting them fudge areas that other teams cant, thats cheating. A NASCAR official coming out could provide enough information to cause doubt and that in itself could do considerable damage, I mean look at you guys on here, you have absolutely no proog NASCAR lets the final 4 have an advantage over the others but you people eat it up with a spoon because more then likely most of your drivers are running like crap and getting blown in to the bushes.
 
Spotter22 said:
If you are letting them fudge areas that other teams cant, thats cheating. A NASCAR official coming out could provide enough information to cause doubt and that in itself could do considerable damage, I mean look at you guys on here, you have absolutely no proog NASCAR lets the final 4 have an advantage over the others but you people eat it up with a spoon because more then likely most of your drivers are running like crap and getting blown in to the bushes.
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Blown in to the Bushes.... priceless.

The Monday sadness of his fans is such a pleasureable thing.
 
Spotter22 said:
If you are letting them fudge areas that other teams cant, thats cheating. A NASCAR official coming out could provide enough information to cause doubt and that in itself could do considerable damage, I mean look at you guys on here, you have absolutely no proog NASCAR lets the final 4 have an advantage over the others but you people eat it up with a spoon because more then likely most of your drivers are running like crap and getting blown in to the bushes.
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I don’t think anyone that believes Allen is mad or even the least bit irritated. On the other hand it seems like some of the people that believe Nascar would never tolerate such a thing have throbbing veins.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I don’t think anyone that believes Allen is mad or even the least bit irritated. On the other hand it seems like some of the people that believe Nascar would never tolerate such a thing have throbbing veins.
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Yeah I dont see anything in my post that says anything about Allen being mad.
 
Allenbaba said:
Go ahead and find a racing person, ask him or her to tell you stories about all the shades of gray within enforcing the rules, and they will tell you many, many stories. No one is keeping secrets. Everyone talks about it. You just need to find one and listen.
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I worked for Norms team at CTMP a couple years ago. The template for the hood, windshield and roof was about a half an inch off and they were just told not to bring that truck back to the track next time. I saw that happen so it isn't hard for me to believe that the championship 4 might be given a bit of wiggle room.
 
Spotter22 said:
If you are letting them fudge areas that other teams cant, thats cheating. A NASCAR official coming out could provide enough information to cause doubt and that in itself could do considerable damage, I mean look at you guys on here, you have absolutely no proog NASCAR lets the final 4 have an advantage over the others but you people eat it up with a spoon because more then likely most of your drivers are running like crap and getting blown in to the bushes.
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I don't have a favorite driver so that blows your theory right out the window.
 
Spotter22 said:
In a court of law if I was called I would be considered an "expert" in this field, you would not.
They might even have a site at the track where you can watch, not sure
It makes no sense for them to let certain teams cheat, its suicide for the sport when the first disgrunteled employee goes to the media.
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Expert? Never said I was, but you surely come off that way. Merely saying this is too coincidental over the past 4 or 5 seasons to not draw suspicion.
Spotter22 said:
Yeah because you are the only person on the board, I have my other therory about you but it will get deleted.
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Pm me I'll tell you if you are right.
Spotter22 said:
Yeah because you are the only person on the board, I have my other therory about you but it will get deleted.
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I'm the only person on the board who doesn't have a favorite driver? Pretty sure you are wrong on that one.
 
Spotter22 said:
Yeah I dont see anything in my post that says anything about Allen being mad

Agreed as my post was poorly worded and I did not mean it to read that you thought Allen was mad. I think the people that believe that Nascar gave the final 4 a little extra are just matter of fact about it.
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Reading this thread has been beyond entertaining. One side says there is ( back of the garage shenanigans) the other says there isn’t.

To, again, make a hockey analogy, replace nascar with the nhl and the final four with the Pittsburgh penguins, and the debate would be the same. Non-penguin fans cite numerous examples of bias/favoritism towards that team and organization with nothing more than anecdotal evidence. A few things here and there could be easily explained away. When there’s a file full of instances, not so easy.

I’m just a fan, been to a few races, never set foot in a garage or met a nascar affiliated person, not even the employee who takes out the trash. That being said, to take the stance there’s no back room wink wink, looking the other way going’s on for the final race is, IMO, a bit naive.

Please note I indicated my opinion, I did not say it was fact.
 
I get the impression that those expressing their view on this topic are hardcore fans and, obviously, opinions have ranged from one extreme to another based on knowledge acquired over the years from following the sport.

But consider what a casual fan might be thinking upon learning the method of determining the season champion, only to see the four championship contenders running up front throughout the final race and finishing 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 in a 39 car field.

Something funny going on, one might think.

And to casual fans, that perception just might be their reality, thereby keeping them from becoming more interested.

just sayin'
 
pjmolo said:
I get the impression that those expressing their view on this topic are hardcore fans and, obviously, opinions have ranged from one extreme to another based on knowledge acquired over the years from following the sport.

But consider what a casual fan might be thinking upon learning the method of determining the season champion, only to see the four championship contenders running up front throughout the final race and finishing 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 in a 39 car field.

Something funny going on, one might think.

And to casual fans, that perception just might be their reality, thereby keeping them from becoming more interested.

just sayin'
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Great point
 
As I keep saying, I'm not accusing NASCAR or anybody else of doing something because I just don't know. BUT, if something that only happened nine times in 38 years happens five years in a row, (A championship contender winning the final race) SOMETHING has to explain that.
 
Formerjackman said:
As I keep saying, I'm not accusing NASCAR or anybody else of doing something because I just don't know. BUT, if something that only happened nine times in 38 years happens five years in a row, (A championship contender winning the final race) SOMETHING has to explain that.
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;)
 
Formerjackman said:
As I keep saying, I'm not accusing NASCAR or anybody else of doing something because I just don't know. BUT, if something that only happened nine times in 38 years happens five years in a row, (A championship contender winning the final race) SOMETHING has to explain that.
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Joey won the race, he only won one other time in the season. 3 Other cars won most of the races BUT in the final race the CC's may have just "what if" themselves. Cole Pern won it all last year because he had a short run car which was the best after the final caution. This year he had the slowest. Harvick had one of the best CC's all year and his only competitor was the #18 team.
The #4 team lost their CC for the final race. It probably never affected the car but played hell with the drivers mind. Finally we come down to the #18 car. Every year the car is a winner. They now have 50 plus wins and in my opinion is the only team capable of breaking JJ's record. BUT they won all those races with no pressure. Kyle did win an abbreviated championship in a year when there was no pressure to do so, however they CHOKED every other year as did Denny Hamlin and Carl Edwards. JGR lost those championships and the blame lies with Joe Gibbs.
 
Team Penske said:
Joey won the race, he only won one other time in the season. 3 Other cars won most of the races BUT in the final race the CC's may have just "what if" themselves. Cole Pern won it all last year because he had a short run car which was the best after the final caution. This year he had the slowest. Harvick had one of the best CC's all year and his only competitor was the #18 team.
The #4 team lost their CC for the final race. It probably never affected the car but played hell with the drivers mind. Finally we come down to the #18 car. Every year the car is a winner. They now have 50 plus wins and in my opinion is the only team capable of breaking JJ's record. BUT they won all those races with no pressure. Kyle did win an abbreviated championship in a year when there was no pressure to do so, however they CHOKED every other year as did Denny Hamlin and Carl Edwards. JGR lost those championships and the blame lies with Joe Gibbs.
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You’re going to be bring out the grieving KDB, JGR and Toyota fans with that fire of a post. Lmao.
 
I've said it it prior to this year that the whole thing seems fishy to me. Like year one, Newman hadn't done much all year but somehow almost wins the race. It always seems like there's some late race circumstances that allow a final 4 guy to win it. And this year all 4 just happen to hit it and finish 1-4? Sure why not?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
I think the other drivers left the finalists decide it among themselves. Larson and Hamlin had something to race for this year; Hamlin wanted to continue a winning streak and Larson admitted cutting the finalists a break last year, he was determined not to do that this year. The rest of the drivers probably just wanted to finish the season without wrecking the car and get on to vacation plans.
 
Yes I find this fishy as well, and I think there is a reason for it, but I don't think it's any sort of conspiracy by NASCAR. I think it's more of an informal gentleman's agreement among all the drivers that the 4 finalists will be expected to race aggressively (since point strategy is no longer an issue), and the other drivers will not be aggressive, especially against the contenders.
 
Jeff Turner said:
Yes I find this fishy as well, and I think there is a reason for it, but I don't think it's any sort of conspiracy by NASCAR. I think it's more of an informal gentleman's agreement among all the drivers that the 4 finalists will be expected to race aggressively (since point strategy is no longer an issue), and the other drivers will not be aggressive, especially against the contenders.
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Then just have a 50 lap shoot out between the final 4, lind of pointless just laying over for these guys.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Then just have a 50 lap shoot out between the final 4, lind of pointless just laying over for these guys.
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Heck, just save everyone the time and money..... Put the four names in a hat and let the Most Popular Driver pull a name out. The Nascar Champion is crowned and Most Popular Driver is introduced to the fans all in one neat package. Each can do a 20 minute 'thanks to the sponsors/fans' eliminating the need for a costly banquet. It also allows for the driver to spend more time with his family by not having to travel to Vegas. As a bonus it'll also eliminate the yearly argument among fans as to where the banquet should have taken place as well as which driver/personality should be on the 'red carpet' interviewing the top 10.

Or not.

Yep, 4th cup of coffee and it's only 630.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Heck, just save everyone the time and money..... Put the four names in a hat and let the Most Popular Driver pull a name out. The Nascar Champion is crowned and Most Popular Driver is introduced to the fans all in one neat package. Each can do a 20 minute 'thanks to the sponsors/fans' eliminating the need for a costly banquet. It also allows for the driver to spend more time with his family by not having to travel to Vegas. As a bonus it'll also eliminate the yearly argument among fans as to where the banquet should have taken place as well as which driver/personality should be on the 'red carpet' interviewing the top 10.

Or not.

Yep, 4th cup of coffee and it's only 630.
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:D
 
Mopardh9 said:
Then just have a 50 lap shoot out between the final 4, lind of pointless just laying over for these guys.
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Yeah I'm not saying it's an absolute 100% lay down by the other drivers. If, for instance, Jimmie Johnson had been in a position in the final laps at Homestead to go for a win and extend his streak I'm sure he would have taken it.

I think it's more of just an attitude of not wanting to be the guy who isn't in the final 4 and crashes out someone who is, especially early in the race, because then you just look like an a-hole.

Further evidence of this, I think, is the qualifying. You will notice that, even though the contenders almost always finish really close together right up at the front, they don't always qualify that way. They usually qualify in a good position, which is to be expected since they have been running good most of the year, but it's not as bunched up near the front as how they finish the race. I think this is because the other drivers are still giving max effort during qualifying because there is no danger they are going to crash out one of the contenders.
 
Perhaps they could do something like award the race win and trophy at the end of stage 2, and then have stage 3 be just a shootout between the 4 championship contenders, starting in the order they finished stage 2, and allowed to use a backup car if they had crashed during the race.
 
Mopardh9 said:
The best thing would to just get rid of the Chase.
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I don't have a problem with them keeping the Chase. I would just make a few subtle changes so that it would have a more mass appeal. Such as..... Just expand it from 16 to 40+ competitors and from 10 to 36 races, resetting the points to zero just prior to the Daytona 500. Let the points earned eliminate to competition as the season progresses. We could then have elimination races each and every week throughout the season. They could still hold the finale @ Homestead. Biggest point total after that 36th Chase race takes home the hardware!

Do you want me to tell you how I'd fix the Stage Racing too? I'll give you a hint..... It involves making the race one larger stage. I can elaborate if need be.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I don't have a problem with them keeping the Chase. I would just make a few subtle changes so that it would have a more mass appeal. Such as..... Just expand it from 16 to 40+ competitors and from 10 to 36 races, resetting the points to zero just prior to the Daytona 500. Let the points earned eliminate to competition as the season progresses. We could then have elimination races each and every week throughout the season. They could still hold the finale @ Homestead. Biggest point total after that 36th Chase race takes home the hardware!

Do you want me to tell you how I'd fix the Stage Racing too? I'll give you a hint..... It involves making the race one larger stage. I can elaborate if need be.
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:D:D:D
 
Yeah I'm all for getting rid of the playoffs too but that would he way too sensible and logical.

If they wanted to make it more competitive at the end of the season, they didn't really have to make a playoff system. They could have simply made it so the races have increasing point value as the year goes on, meaning the last race would have enough points at stake so that several drivers would still have a chance.
 
I'm not really married to any particular scheme. Just make it so every season ends with a race like that 1992 race in Atlanta.

Go.
 
Jeff Turner said:
Yeah I'm all for getting rid of the playoffs too but that would he way too sensible and logical.

If they wanted to make it more competitive at the end of the season, they didn't really have to make a playoff system. They could have simply made it so the races have increasing point value as the year goes on, meaning the last race would have enough points at stake so that several drivers would still have a chance.
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they kinda did that with Indycar, doubled the points. IDK, the points are mostly like politics. I like the playoffs from a few years back myself. Started out with 10 and enlarged it to 12 cars, didn't have all of the cut offs, just run the hell out of em and the best car/driver won the thing. KISS. there were enough races run to make it legitimate IMO, not the "final four" b.s.
 
StandOnIt said:
they kinda did that with Indycar, doubled the points. IDK, the points are mostly like politics. I like the playoffs from a few years back myself. Started out with 10 and enlarged it to 12 cars, didn't have all of the cut offs, just run the hell out of em and the best car/driver won the thing. KISS. there were enough races run to make it legitimate IMO, not the "final four" b.s.
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There was that one time they had 13.. That was fun lol.. without that turn of events Joey never would have got a chance to make Truex eat his words by finishing one spot ahead of him for the championship :D
 
What makes it so awkward trying to come up with a "playoff" format for this sport is the nature of the contests - all the teams play in the same game at the same time, as opposed to a sport like football or baseball, or even drag racing, where you would see head-to-head contests, which allow one competitor to be eliminated and the other to advance.

I'm just not sure it's really meant to be.
 
To me, the NASCAR playoff finale is like naming a NFL champion by giving each team the ball at the 20 and see who scores first. It's too small of a sample of work to decide something as important as a champion.
 
Jeff Turner said:
What makes it so awkward trying to come up with a "playoff" format for this sport is the nature of the contests - all the teams play in the same game at the same time, as opposed to a sport like football or baseball, or even drag racing, where you would see head-to-head contests, which allow one competitor to be eliminated and the other to advance.

I'm just not sure it's really meant to be.
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Nascar is NOT a stick and ball sport. Why can't people just accept that fact and quit trying to compare them. Horses race against the entire field even though there are really only about 1/3 who have a chance. Yet one horse can take out the possible winners leaving the milkman to win. Who really CARES how football or baseball determine a champion????
 
Team Penske said:
Nascar is NOT a stick and ball sport. Why can't people just accept that fact and quit trying to compare them. Horses race against the entire field even though there are really only about 1/3 who have a chance. Yet one horse can take out the possible winners leaving the milkman to win. Who really CARES how football or baseball determine a champion????
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Because football and baseball do it the correct way, Nascar does not.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Because football and baseball do it the correct way, Nascar does not.
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In your mind maybe. Describe to me how your going to run a race with only 10 cars in it and try to convince the spectacle will be so great as to attract 80,000 seat buyers? You won't and can't.
People going to watch a football game will not go if all you have is a quarterback and receiver for each team and 2 guys trying to play defense. Football has many different players with individual jobs and the apposing team has the same. A race car driver has his car and pit crew period.
 
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