Thoughts on Matt Kenseth's Fine

Other than KyBu single-handely ruining the NWS ;) who'd have guessed that of all the JGR drivers, he'd be the least controversial so far this season :eek:
 
LOL I know right. Give it time, he's running well now. Let's see if he stays like this once he has a few bad races. Its the Busch curse. Look good until you're juuuuuust about to make people move on. Then eff it up by saying something stupid or having a temper tantrum.

Busch Bro -->:director::blink: <--Unsuspecting reporter

:eviltongu <---Denny Hamlin on the pit box
 
The one that really dropped the ball on this is the engine builder. If the rules have a minimum or maximum weight for a part then it is the builders responsibility to weigh that part before it is put into that engine. If they screwed that up then I would have to wonder what else they are not doing correctly. If I was the crew chief I would be taking a trip to California to see what their engine building procedures are. But my guess is that this is an isolated mistake and that the problem will be fixed and it won't happen again.
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I agree.
Anyone who blueprints an engine weights every part and checks every dimension. This is standard procedure for any race team (and any commercial engine builder). Out of a batch of piston rods they would pick the 8 closest in weight. The piston rods were checked. How it became light would have been determined, I wonder what the results were.
 
#17D500winner said:
Other than KyBu single-handely ruining the NWS ;) who'd have guessed that of all the JGR drivers, he'd be the least controversial so far this season :eek:
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I have to admit he's handled himself well so far this season, but I think we'll really find out if/how much he's changed during the Chase.
 
Bush is jumping thru the hoops. He will deal with the B.S. in order to win the championship. I think he gets it. I don't know if he will win the thing, but I would bet money he makes the chase easily if his car stays legal and doesn't blow up a lot.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
LOL I know right. Give it time, he's running well now. Let's see if he stays like this once he has a few bad races. Its the Busch curse. Look good until you're juuuuuust about to make people move on. Then eff it up by saying something stupid or having a temper tantrum.

Busch Bro -->:director::blink: <--Unsuspecting reporter

:eviltongu <---Denny Hamlin on the pit box
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Didn't you watch Kansas?:eek::)
 
FenderBumper said:
...yet you took the time to comment. :rolleyes: Context, my boy. Context.

All this blather about not being able to judge intent is just a cover for nascar not bothering to reason some things out.
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Thick skilled nascar fans lack the ability to "reason some things out" but the internet gives them a place to opine as they see fit. Your insistence on changing the subject to make what you consider to be a valid point serves no benefit to you or this topic.;)
 
I don't know about you guys, but I have never believed for a minute that Nascar is going to get the full amount of these penalties. Kind of like charging someone with a felony and after it goes to court, it gets reduced to a misdemeanor. The big fines were assessed to get their attention..Like, hey you guys, get it together, this is serious. The appeal panel, I am confident will reduce the charges. They are still going to be stiff though I believe
 
Don't know if this has been posted yet:

Toyota recalls three Bowyer engines: A parts review by Toyota after #20-Matt Kenseth's penalty led the manufacturer to pull three engines from Michael Waltrip Racing's inventory as a precautionary move. All three engines recalled were earmarked for #15-Clint Bowyer. One was his engine for Saturday night's race at Richmond; the other two were his primary and backup engines for Talladega. "We took every connecting rod in our inventory and removed anything that was too close for comfort," Toyota Racing Development vice president David Wilson told The Associated Press. The review found that there was at least one connecting rod in each of the three Bowyer engines that left TRD uncomfortable in the wake of Kenseth's issue. The issue began when the manufacturer shipped the connecting rod to TRD even though it was outside the tolerance the manufacturer allows on weight. It came with paperwork that clearly stated its weight, and that was missed by TRD employees. Now the manufacturer is backtracking to double-check everything in inventory while also reviewing its own quality control practices.

From Jayski
 
StandOnIt said:
The appeal panel, I am confident will reduce the charges. They are still going to be stiff though I believe
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Wish I had your confidence. Nascar needs a "whipping" boy to set an example for others to see that aren't fooling around.
Matts 'infraction' is a black and white issue. Rod was underweight plain and simple.
Penkes rear end issues are different. A certain amount of camber is allowed per the rules. Nascar didn't like the way they went about obtaining it.
IMO if it's not specifically spelled out as illegal, it's legal. If a modification is permitted under the rules the method used shouldn't be a factor if it produces the same results.
Just because Nascar doesn't like it doesn't mean it's illegal.

Oh wait a minute, it does.
 
Doesn't look like TRD in California is a good source to be building engines for Nascar. There is a reason why the x drivers and crew chiefs talk with reverence about a Yates or a Hendrick, or a Childress engine. They respect what they do. TRD doesn't have my respect, with all the engine failures they are responsible for.
 
Bobw said:
Wish I had your confidence. Nascar needs a "whipping" boy to set an example for others to see that aren't fooling around.
Matts 'infraction' is a black and white issue. Rod was underweight plain and simple.
Penkes rear end issues are different. A certain amount of camber is allowed per the rules. Nascar didn't like the way they went about obtaining it.
IMO if it's not specifically spelled out as illegal, it's legal. If a modification is permitted under the rules the method used shouldn't be a factor if it produces the same results.
Just because Nascar doesn't like it doesn't mean it's illegal.

Oh wait a minute, it does.
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you have your opinion, but I think it is more emotional than an informed one. I think you should read up on what Penske actually did, it was against the rules also
 
Had JRG built that engine themselves, I would say the fine is justified. Then again, it's hard for NASCAR to know whether the engine has been opened or not. For something like that, chances are it would not for no more that was wrong with that engine.
 
3 grams is awfully nitpicky, that's about the weight of a piece of notebook paper. Punishment didn't fit the crime, plain and simple.

And for all who are saying "rules are rules", maybe you'll someday get pulled over and get a ticket for doing 66 in a 65. But I guess you'll be OK with that, because rules are rules.
 
Anytime an Nhra pro stock team leases their engines from another team or from an outside vendor the engine are sealed and the seal can only be broken for a tear down from an Nhra official. I'm just curious does anyone know if these TRD engines are sealed before they leave California?
 
Those oblong holes on the Penske rear housings did not alter camber, what they did was to allow skew in the rear of the car which was clearly illegal.
 
if it was overlooked,hand out pink slips to motor shop dont cry to NASCAR,deal with it,who in blue blazes ballances a motor n dosnt weigh each rod.
 
Nitro Dude said:
Anytime an Nhra pro stock team leases their engines from another team or from an outside vendor the engine are sealed and the seal can only be broken for a tear down from an Nhra official. I'm just curious does anyone know if these TRD engines are sealed before they leave California?
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Yes they are sealed...And it is the luck of the draw which team/driver/car gets which engine...If Kenseth would'nt have won the race...we would'nt even be talking about this...
 
ToyYoda said:
3 grams is awfully nitpicky, that's about the weight of a piece of notebook paper. Punishment didn't fit the crime, plain and simple.

And for all who are saying "rules are rules", maybe you'll someday get pulled over and get a ticket for doing 66 in a 65. But I guess you'll be OK with that, because rules are rules.
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Spot On......
 
Ok, thought it was just a camber issue.
I know with local tracks that allow crate engines about the only thing they can do is change the oil and jets in the carb. If a seal is broken that motor is illegal
 
ToyYoda said:
3 grams is awfully nitpicky, that's about the weight of a piece of notebook paper. Punishment didn't fit the crime, plain and simple.

And for all who are saying "rules are rules", maybe you'll someday get pulled over and get a ticket for doing 66 in a 65. But I guess you'll be OK with that, because rules are rules.
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Don't forget to add that the ticket they'd get for such a serious crime is $900. :eek:
 
BobbyFord said:
3 grams is almost an ounce, if you're an ounce over, somebody f'd up.
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Actually it's more like a tenth of an ounce. 1kg = 2.2046 lbs, meaning 1g = 0.0022046 lbs. Therefore 3g would be roughly 0.0066 lbs, or approx. 1/150th of a pound, whereas an ounce is 1/16th of a pound.
 
ToyYoda said:
3 grams is awfully nitpicky, that's about the weight of a piece of notebook paper. Punishment didn't fit the crime, plain and simple.

And for all who are saying "rules are rules", maybe you'll someday get pulled over and get a ticket for doing 66 in a 65. But I guess you'll be OK with that, because rules are rules.
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If you have never been involved with precision manufacturing and not familiar with geometric tolerances and dimensions, I can see why so many are having trouble accepting the loose tolerance on the Toyota rod. If you buy a cheap china lawnmower or go to harbor freight and look around, you will see horrendous examples of loose tolerances and no quality control. On the other end of the scale the very top end of the scale you have Nascar engines, N.A.S.A., the aircraft industry, top quality manufactures. My good buddy is a level three quality control inspector, only 6 in the state have the qualifications and experience. But if I tried to slip a part thru that wasn't within a spec of being right, my good buddy would reject it. I hope you get this..comparing it to 1 MPH is like being two pounds over weight on a rod.
 
And to the other childish argument...he didn't do it..it was somebody else. that is what little kids think when they get caught doing something wrong..Gibbs racing is responsible for their Race car...ALL the parts..All the crew.
 
TRD should send an asian metalurgist with holy-roller Joe to the appeal meeting, claiming the rod was lite due to friction within either the rod bearing area or the wrist pin area. From mulitple heat cycles and sustained 96-9800 rpms

The board members and NASCRAP will be scratching their heads on that one.......
 
StandOnIt said:
If you have never been involved with precision manufacturing and not familiar with geometric tolerances and dimensions, I can see why so many are having trouble accepting the loose tolerance on the Toyota rod. If you buy a cheap china lawnmower or go to harbor freight and look around, you will see horrendous examples of loose tolerances and no quality control. On the other end of the scale the very top end of the scale you have Nascar engines, N.A.S.A., the aircraft industry, top quality manufactures. My good buddy is a level three quality control inspector, only 6 in the state have the qualifications and experience. But if I tried to slip a part thru that wasn't within a spec of being right, my good buddy would reject it. I hope you get this..comparing it to 1 MPH is like being two pounds over weight on a rod.
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I work for a pharmaceutical company and our tolerances are monitored quite heavily by the FDA, so I'm no stranger to precision. I don't have a problem with the fact that Kenseth and the 20 team were penalized, it's the magnitude of the penalties that I have a problem with. This should have been a 5 point, $25K penalty at the most. What advantage could really be gained by less than 3 grams? Literally, Kenseth could have farted and given himself more of a weight advantage.

And to anybody that thinks weight is that big a deal, remember, Danica Patrick is 100 lbs. and Tony Stewart has 3 championships. ;)
 
One other thing....When the NASCRAP BRASS pull a motor and take it to their R&D in Concord a representative from the team or in this case TRD should be allowed to witness the dismantling of the motor and be a part of the tech process.........Unfortunately NASCRAP can't be trusted.....IMO...
 
it won't stand.. but you still aren't going to like it, they are still going to get spanked, but not that bad IMO..I think and this is entirely without any evidence that TRD has had sleight rod underweight problems for a while and they have been letting them slide. Not a good thing to do. Like my buddy told me who is an inspector..you let them get away with it once, and they have something on you. Don't know if you caught the Penske crew saying that they had run those illegal part in other races. But that is what happens when you let them skate..you lets us before?
 
ToyYoda said:
3 grams is awfully nitpicky, that's about the weight of a piece of notebook paper. Punishment didn't fit the crime, plain and simple.

And for all who are saying "rules are rules", maybe you'll someday get pulled over and get a ticket for doing 66 in a 65. But I guess you'll be OK with that, because rules are rules.
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I agree that the punishment was too severe for the infraction.

Your speeding analogy... What team at cup level wouldn't spend a million dollars to get one more mile per hour? You or I wouldn't get a ticket for 66 in a 65 but if a team knows they can get 196 in a 195, you can bet they will shave 3 grams anywhere they can find it. ;)
 
MELROSEMAFIA said:
One other thing....When the NASCRAP BRASS pull a motor and take it to their R&D in Concord a representative from the team or in this case TRD should be allowed to witness the dismantling of the motor and be a part of the tech process.........Unfortunately NASCRAP can't be trusted.....IMO...
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Whoever you are the way you constantly overbash Nascar they must have busted you for something pretty bad and kicked you out for you to expend this much overzealous hate energy on a forum that mostly dont care what you say.
 
Johali said:
Whoever you are the way you constantly overbash Nascar they must have busted you for something pretty bad and kicked you out for you to expend this much overzealous hate energy on a forum that mostly dont care what you say.
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he can't say nascar, all he can do is blubber criticisms that have no merit..it is MelroseCRAP.:)
 
ted@economy said:
Heh , get off Jeremy's case.
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what should we do with the crazies. Johali points out the obvious. What in the heck are you doing on a Nascar thread spouting off statements that are borderline slanderous. Totally unfounded. post 188 and 191
 
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