Toyota teams sandbagging?

ChexOrWrex said:
Several cars have thinner driver side walls that allow for a pocket of air to slip down the body. When the cars are slowed the panel pops back out into template place.
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yeah they no longer need a crewman to lean on the car to put a dent in the side. That was illegal, but if it does it on it's own it's not illegal or hasn't been checked? No telling what they are doing with the electronics which are supposed to be a sealed unit and the throttle body injectors. If you don't check this stuff like you are supposed to do, yeah some people are going to start talking.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Several cars have thinner driver side walls that allow for a pocket of air to slip down the body. When the cars are slowed the panel pops back out into template place.
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Has NASCAR stopped checking the gauge of the sheetmetal?
 
aunty dive said:
Has NASCAR stopped checking the gauge of the sheetmetal?
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it probably isn't the gauge that is easily checked standing still, but the properties of the metal, spring steel compared to common auto body steel. A wind tunnel test would be needed to find that.
 
sjoeoy1sqsfz.jpg
 
aunty dive said:
Has NASCAR stopped checking the gauge of the sheetmetal?
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StandOnIt said:
it probably isn't the gauge that is easily checked standing still, but the properties of the metal, spring steel compared to common auto body steel. A wind tunnel test would be needed to find that.
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"5. Body Panels
Fabricated from 24-gauge/0.0247-inch (minimum) cold-rolled sheet metal."

A possible explanation for what has gone on for a long time:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=OA...VAhUql1QKHVR5D4kQ6AEIODAD#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
aunty dive said:
"5. Body Panels
Fabricated from 24-gauge/0.0247-inch (minimum) cold-rolled sheet metal."

A possible explanation for what has gone on for a long time:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=OA...VAhUql1QKHVR5D4kQ6AEIODAD#v=onepage&q&f=false
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that is the explanation all right. Making the metal bend is simple. Making it bend in all the right places costs the big money.
and BTW what happened to all of the impact absorbing foam that is supposed to be in the door? that bends too now I guess. These desk jockeys at Nascar I continue to wonder about.
 
Revman said:
Why? I just don't get this. When the 4 was fast it sure pissed me off, but I absolutely respected and was intrigued by what Rodney and Kevin had going on.
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Because it's an outrage that journeyman scrub Martin Truex Jr. and the hippies from Colorado are beating their favorite driver week in, week out.

NASCAR needs to step in and rectify this inequity.
 
If Toyota was dominating the series I could understand the hue and cry but the fact is they are not. No manufacturer is dominating so getting worked up about it makes no sense given the real issues Nascar is facing.
 
see Toyota people? Parity is good! :D I want them to check the cars and try to find find the sneaky black ops stuff that all of them do, that is part of Nascar's job as sanctioning body, much more interesting to us who are technological inclined than seat counting or deathbed predictions. That isn't racing IMO, but gossip and drama.

Kyle Busch: Parity in NASCAR racing is good

There needs to be more parity in our sport. There needs to be other teams that have the opportunity to get up there and run well and win races.


https://racing-forums.com/threads/toyota-teams-sandbagging.59976/page-7
 
FWIW, the ESPN crowd weighs in...

Brad Keselowski: Shrewd politician or a moron?

Craven: Brad is among the brightest, most thoughtful drivers we have seen in years. Seldom does he say anything that's not backed by fact, or at least belief, on his part. What he said last week was common ground in the 1990s. The strongest opinions back then came from Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace, and when Dale Earnhardt weighed in, it was like E.F. Hutton. Google it. Everyone listened!

McGee: Politician, sometimes shrewd, sometimes otherwise. He certainly doesn't have a perfect batting average, but Brad is a calculated guy. He doesn't do or say anything he hasn't thought out. That doesn't mean it always works. But sometimes it does. It's the perfect guy to be driving Rusty Wallace's old ride because that's who he's always reminded me of. People conveniently forget this now, but a lot of them used to hate Rusty for the same reasons they hate Brad now.

Pockrass: Neither. He is an OK politician -- he knows how the NASCAR game is played -- and typically tries to educate himself on issues. It's just that as a "student" at what some would call "Google University," the question is does he base some of his opinions on more theory than fact?

Willis: I'm going shrewd. Keselowski's locked in at Penske, so there's no damage with him calling out the Toyota power teams. If he's right and they're sandbagging to avoid being pulled back to the pack, he's called Toyota out successfully and putting the pressure on them. If it's not the case, he's subtlety pointed out that Penske has caught up to Gibbs/Furniture Row based on their Michigan performances. I love that Keselowski speaks his mind, NASCAR needs personality, and he often forces you to think about matters on a different level. Agree or disagree, it's always good to think.
 
StandOnIt said:
see Toyota people? Parity is good! :D I want them to check the cars and try to find find the sneaky black ops stuff that all of them do, that is part of Nascar's job as sanctioning body, much more interesting to us who are technological inclined than seat counting or deathbed predictions. That isn't racing IMO, but gossip and drama.

Kyle Busch: Parity in NASCAR racing is good

There needs to be more parity in our sport. There needs to be other teams that have the opportunity to get up there and run well and win races.


https://racing-forums.com/threads/toyota-teams-sandbagging.59976/page-7
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Parity is one thing but mandating that that the cars from different manufacturers are essentially identical is not parity. The NFL and NHL have parity but the good teams tend to stay good and the bad teams are normally bad for a period of years. Each team has access to the same players and can spend the same amount of money as the others but each year the worst teams are given first crack at the best amateur players in order to try and improve.
 
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LewTheShoe said:
FWIW, the ESPN crowd weighs in...

Brad Keselowski: Shrewd politician or a moron?

Craven: Brad is among the brightest, most thoughtful drivers we have seen in years. Seldom does he say anything that's not backed by fact, or at least belief, on his part. What he said last week was common ground in the 1990s. The strongest opinions back then came from Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace, and when Dale Earnhardt weighed in, it was like E.F. Hutton. Google it. Everyone listened!

McGee: Politician, sometimes shrewd, sometimes otherwise. He certainly doesn't have a perfect batting average, but Brad is a calculated guy. He doesn't do or say anything he hasn't thought out. That doesn't mean it always works. But sometimes it does. It's the perfect guy to be driving Rusty Wallace's old ride because that's who he's always reminded me of. People conveniently forget this now, but a lot of them used to hate Rusty for the same reasons they hate Brad now.

Pockrass: Neither. He is an OK politician -- he knows how the NASCAR game is played -- and typically tries to educate himself on issues. It's just that as a "student" at what some would call "Google University," the question is does he base some of his opinions on more theory than fact?

Willis: I'm going shrewd. Keselowski's locked in at Penske, so there's no damage with him calling out the Toyota power teams. If he's right and they're sandbagging to avoid being pulled back to the pack, he's called Toyota out successfully and putting the pressure on them. If it's not the case, he's subtlety pointed out that Penske has caught up to Gibbs/Furniture Row based on their Michigan performances. I love that Keselowski speaks his mind, NASCAR needs personality, and he often forces you to think about matters on a different level. Agree or disagree, it's always good to think.
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I don't think BKez is anywhere close to being a moron and I don't see him as shrewd either. It is probably more a case of social media-itis.
 
The link works for me, is there a goof balI I am missing? a secret message I need my decoder glasses for?:D
 
StandOnIt said:
Bingo, and that hasn't been done. After all the aero changes Nascar has made and continues to make to reduce the downforce, they haven't taken all of the manufacturers into the wind tunnel or the engine dyno like they routinely do and should have been done before now. Any brand that is dominating the series gets the same criticism as Toyota is getting this year. I know it is all new to Toyota fans, but it has been going on for years.
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I'm good with that, but like I said, I am not good with detuning someone for doing a good job. Nor am I a fan of giving someone else a little something extra because they haven't.

When Toyota came to Cup in '07, I dreamt of my TRD teams being accused of cheating because they were so fast.....and you are 100% correct--this is new to Toyota fans. Guess we got a seat at the adult table now.

That's a good post right there man.
 
Ford 222 said:
BK hasn't said anyone is cheating. All he's saying is the Toys (specifically the 78 and 18) would probably be detuned in some manner in the event their cars were selected for comparison. Or that they were destined to keep from getting selected.
He's right. If things go as they have been, Chase or whatever it is will be boring unless you are a Toyota fan.
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I remember when the 4 was running away with everything ..... constant mistakes by the team was the only thing that prevented them from winning every race.
 
StandOnIt said:
Toyota is doing what they always have when they enter a series, they throw a whole bunch of money at it in development and go all out to win. But at the same token, Nascar has a duty to it's fans to continually check all competitors cars to keep the competition balanced. Stands to reason fans are questioning what is going on. As some have said, this has been going on for years, it isn't anything new, in fact it used to be worse. Teams would jump from manufacturer to manufacturer for a slipperier car yearly.
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The 4 car was dominant for about 2 years but the team couldn't use it to their advantage
 
Ford 222 said:
Kyle has never come close to a cure for cancer. Would come closer to causing it more than curing anything.
And yeah, kinda odd a company that advertises to kids would use a spoiled brat that can't control himself to market them. Doesn't seem very responsible to me.
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Mars candy seems happy with their investment
 
kyle18fan said:
The 4 car was dominant for about 2 years but the team couldn't use it to their advantage
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You didn't get the revised Terms of Use for the Forum I take it. I will summarize....Do not post facts that expose personal preferences....unless you are a Toyota Disliker.
 
Revman said:
You didn't get the revised Terms of Use for the Forum I take it. I will summarize....Do not post facts that expose personal preferences....unless you are a Toyota Disliker.
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Sorry man ......... please be lenient :( ............. Go Harvck go !!!!!!! :pbjtime:
 
I come with hat in hand. Great job KB and 18 team. They are on a roll and hard to beat. Can't deny it. Advantage or not they got something figured out. Hope the other 15 teams figure it out to. Congrats!
 
Revman said:
You didn't get the revised Terms of Use for the Forum I take it. I will summarize....Do not post facts that expose personal preferences....unless you are a Toyota Disliker.
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Facts are funny things as they can turn mild mannered people into angry folks foaming at the mouth. You should see the TV thread lol.
 
Skew gone. Toyotas are normal again. See kids, all you had to do was wait....yet, Brad is still running his mouth about wind tunnels. Kyle sounded like he did at the beginning of the season. Short run speed, and the car goes away. Same. Damn. Thing. There you go.
 
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