Toyota teams sandbagging?

Skoalbandit33 said:
I don't follow the series close enough to know what Nascar has taken away from different manufacturers so what did they take away from the Ford camp?
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A win, points and I am guessing the cars ability to adjust itself to the track. Most cars had it, that why the divers had to shake down the car before being checked.
I am still of the opinion that that if Nascar checked most race winners before they were allowed to do a burn out they would fail inspection. How can a car burn the tires off and still meet height requirement? Jack it up and put on a tire? That lets them do the same thing as shake down the car which they outlawed.
 
Ford 222 said:
Kyle has never come close to a cure for cancer. Would come closer to causing it more than curing anything.
And yeah, kinda odd a company that advertises to kids would use a spoiled brat that can't control himself to market them. Doesn't seem very responsible to me.
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These sure are different times as things we used to get disciplined for are now considered virtues in some camps. Personally I would just like these guys to all shut up and just drive but I am probably the only person alive that would appreciate that.
 
StandOnIt said:
you guarantee it? Where is the proof, I keep up pretty good and I have never heard of what Gibbs was able to do. I've heard of pit crews being loaned to an Xfinity team for one race by a cup team over the years, but no, never heard of any team leasing full time a pit crew from another supposed different team.
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Actually it has been going on for awhile. SHR actually supplied a pit crew to a single car team in order to give the guys more training. RCR did the same thing.
Penske does have all the 21 crew on their payroll. They moved the Xfinity team to the Wood Bros.
They also send the car over to Wood Bros. They take that car and message it how only they know how and it comes off the truck faster than any Penske Cars.
I am wondering where the team for Menard is coming from next year. Blaney's team is all moving in house at Penske. I think the Xfinity team #12 is going to Wood Bros. with Greg Ives.
 
Team Penske said:
Actually it has been going on for awhile. SHR actually supplied a pit crew to a single car team in order to give the guys more training. RCR did the same thing.
Penske does have all the 21 crew on their payroll. They moved the Xfinity team to the Wood Bros.
They also send the car over to Wood Bros. They take that car and message it how only they know how and it comes off the truck faster than any Penske Cars.
I am wondering where the team for Menard is coming from next year. Blaney's team is all moving in house at Penske. I think the Xfinity team #12 is going to Wood Bros. with Greg Ives.
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I'm sure some of the guys could be from RCR any other free agents coming over to the Wood Brothers but big money is going to be spent there I really think that RCR is using Menards money in other places than the 27 car
 
StandOnIt said:
It probably is a terms of endearment for some when your driver drops the mic, says it isn't a real race track about another drivers win. I can't for the life of me figure out a company that makes it's living feeding kids M&M's would continue to have him for a representative of their product. BTW those are lies and exaggerations also.
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Because they can get guys like you to pay attention to their representative when you clearly don't like him. They already have those who do. Brilliant marketing strategy. You might spend more time thinking about Kyle Damn Busch than I do. BTW--Any parent counting on M&M's to raise their kid is too far gone to help, but I am sure that you already knew that.

Ford 222 said:
Doesn't seem very responsible to me.
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There is that slogan, "Drink responsibly," right? See Brad's post championship interviews when he got lit on national television. Let's talk about responsibility. Get a grip.

Ford 222 said:
How's that? He says exactly what he thinks. Doesn't give a thought about popularity or who he makes happy or pisses. Epitome of real.
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You just described Kyle Busch. Dude, clean your shoes before you enter the house...you just stepped in it.

StandOnIt said:
Nascar has a duty to it's fans to continually check all competitors cars to keep the competition balanced.
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bull****. It is the team/manufacturer duty to keep up. Seriously. Mommy....no fair.....they're too good.....help me. Where the hell was all of this in Toyota's early days when WE couldn't make races or keep up? That's right. Nowhere. The more the dislikers soak in a hot tub of crap, the more they are convinced it's water. Off the charts this thread is.

Ford 222 said:
Nobody is saying Toy has done something wrong but if NASCAR want to keep it interesting, they need to keep the parity
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Where was this post pre-encumbered win/skew? Where? Wasn't here.

StandOnIt said:
Having crew members controlled by another team was a new one on me, and news to most fans.
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And oddly, the owner of the controlled team who calls his own shots on his own terms has no issue with it.

StandOnIt said:
One could say at Michigan that the Toyotas qualified slower than they normally do. Instead of winning all three stages, they let the Fords win the first one, easily came in one two for the second and were poised to win the third stage one two, until a couple of cautions in the last stage, ironically Logano's tire coming apart, (Larson pitted and got 4 tires) and later McDowell and Menard caused a late race restart (Larson had moved up to 4th) and then Larson stole the win down low on 4 better tires than Truex. Kinda sandbaggy to me, Toyota missing the qualifying setup doesn't make any sense, the toyotas were in qualifying trim the entire practice.
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:XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL:
 
Revman said:
Because they can get guys like you to pay attention to their representative when you clearly don't like him. They already have those who do. Brilliant marketing strategy. You might spend more time thinking about Kyle Damn Busch than I do. BTW--Any parent counting on M&M's to raise their kid is too far gone to help, but I am sure that you already knew that.
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I agree and think that people who loathe Toyota and Kyle B spend far more time keeping him in the forum spotlight than those who like Toy and Kyle. It is funny how that works.
 
Revman said:
bull****. It is the team/manufacturer duty to keep up. Seriously. Mommy....no fair.....they're too good.....help me. Where the hell was all of this in Toyota's early days when WE couldn't make races or keep up? That's right. Nowhere. The more the dislikers soak in a hot tub of crap, the more they are convinced it's water. Off the charts this thread is.
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Can you imagine if an NFL fan said the league has a duty to ensure that the Jags and Browns keep up? IMO Nascar should set the rules, inspect the cars and if one of the other manufacturers has found a legal method of gaining an advantage let them run with it. It is up to the others to try and get better not for Nascar to dumb things down so the others don't get left behind.
 
I believe I have a good handle on why a few folks dislike Toyota but I will leave it at that as this is not the place to discuss those reasons.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Can you imagine if an NFL fan said the league has a duty to ensure that the Jags and Browns keep up? IMO Nascar should set the rules, inspect the cars and if one of the other manufacturers has found a legal method of gaining an advantage let them run with it. It is up to the others to try and get better not for Nascar to dumb things down so the others don't get left behind.
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You have restored my faith in humanity. Thank you. Chevy ran off 13 straight Manufacturers Championships before Toyota won last year, and I can honestly say...hand on heart....that I have always respected that. Never asked for NASCAR to take something from them so my guys could win. That would be ugly, and I would lose my interest in the sport. IF NASCAR would even considering neutering Toyota, I strongly believe that Toyota would leave.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I believe I have a good handle on why a few folks dislike Toyota but I will leave it at that as this is not the place to discuss those reasons.
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I am pretty well versed in those reasons, and I respect that---and won't argue it. However, making bull**** up is just unreal.
 
Revman said:
You have restored my faith in humanity. Thank you. Chevy ran off 13 straight Manufacturers Championships before Toyota won last year, and I can honestly say...hand on heart....that I have always respected that. Never asked for NASCAR to take something from them so my guys could win. That would be ugly, and I would lose my interest in the sport. IF NASCAR would even considering neutering Toyota, I strongly believe that Toyota would leave.
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I helped a person select a new phone and got it set up for her and she loves solitaire so I put a couple of different games on for her. The other day I drop by her house and she has cards on an ottoman and is playing away and I asked her why. She said that she can't cheat on the electronic versions and it is not as much fun because she wants to win. I just gave her a hug and did a couple of other things and moved on. I would rather get my ass kicked early and often because I failed than win because someone threw charity at me but unfortunately there are lots of people like my solitaire friend who just want to win without putting much into it.
 
Fordracing7 said:
I'm sure some of the guys could be from RCR any other free agents coming over to the Wood Brothers but big money is going to be spent there I really think that RCR is using Menards money in other places than the 27 car
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Yup, I agree. I think Paul will be the happiest guy in the garage next season after the half way point. He may even smile once or twice.
 
Revman said:
Because they can get guys like you to pay attention to their representative when you clearly don't like him. They already have those who do. Brilliant marketing strategy. You might spend more time thinking about Kyle Damn Busch than I do. BTW--Any parent counting on M&M's to raise their kid is too far gone to help, but I am sure that you already knew that.



There is that slogan, "Drink responsibly," right? See Brad's post championship interviews when he got lit on national television. Let's talk about responsibility. Get a grip.



You just described Kyle Busch. Dude, clean your shoes before you enter the house...you just stepped in it.



bull****. It is the team/manufacturer duty to keep up. Seriously. Mommy....no fair.....they're too good.....help me. Where the hell was all of this in Toyota's early days when WE couldn't make races or keep up? That's right. Nowhere. The more the dislikers soak in a hot tub of crap, the more they are convinced it's water. Off the charts this thread is.



Where was this post pre-encumbered win/skew? Where? Wasn't here.



And oddly, the owner of the controlled team who calls his own shots on his own terms has no issue with it.


:XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL:
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Yes, Brad had already drove all he was going to that night I'm sure. And he's not marketing to children, to adults. Doing it exactly as it's supposed to be done.

If I described Kyle, I would have included the terms tantrum, entitled, rude, childish, want more? You surely know others but I'd be happy to further enlighten you!

Why would that post be there prior to Richmond? If you think Nascar ever let one manufacturer get ahead of another for along period of time you haven't watched much or very closely since the 90's. Ford has been reigned in more times than I can count so if you think it won't happen to the Toys you in for a rude awakening if they have an advantage.
 
Ford 222 said:
If you think Nascar ever let one manufacturer get ahead of another for along period of time you haven't watched much or very closely since the 90's.
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Chevy. 13 Manufacturer titles. In. A. Row. #ReignedIn
 
Ford 222 said:
And he's not marketing to children, to adults.
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So, there were no children present when we did the "Kyle Busch is an ass," thing? Eight year olds said, "He's a beer guy, I won't listen to him." Got it. Kez has 0 kids in his fan base. Got it.....and wait for it....Adults cannot eat M&M's. Got it.
 
Revman said:
So, there were no children present when we did the "Kyle Busch is an ass," thing? Eight year olds said, "He's a beer guy, I won't listen to him." Got it. Kez has 0 kids in his fan base. Got it.....and wait for it....Adults cannot eat M&M's. Got it.
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Oh please. One time. For each time Brad or almost any other driver, except Harvick, made an ass of themselves multiple of KyB doing it could be found/cited.
 
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If I was KyB I'd throw a....never mind.

Yes, this would be more fun over beers.

Apologies for getting off topic kinda.
 
Back when Chevy/Ford won so much there was a different attitude from nascar. The stands were packed, tickets were being scalped, and race tracks and neighboring motels/ hotels/camp grounds/towns were getting rich and so was nascar. The lines for a go-cart race near the track were an hour long, Now? no go cart tracks, camp grounds are closed or mostly empty and ticket prices have almost been cut in half.. Very few show up to a race now-a-days. TV ratings are at an all time low. Economy? Lost interest? who knows. I can say for sure what people dont want to see.. Way too many commercials on TV, ( hell, every car is a commercial) one team dominating, cup people double or triple dipping, zero competition-- why are there only about 4 cars who could win a race other than a plate race by wreck attrition .People want to see 33 cars all within a half a lap of each other on most any track, not cars getting lapped in the first 10 laps and the field strung out ( like normal) in a freight train. hell if people need a nap, watch nascar at any track larger than 1/2 mile----------boring--------- and I mean very boring. Plate races are follow the leader until there are 3 laps left at every race------------boring------ I'm a die hard fan,( for quite a few years) but I'm dying fast with this style of racing and losing interest .
 
rocket dawg said:
Back when Chevy/Ford won so much there was a different attitude from nascar. The stands were packed, tickets were being scalped, and race tracks and neighboring motels/ hotels/camp grounds/towns were getting rich and so was nascar. The lines for a go-cart race near the track were an hour long, Now? no go cart tracks, camp grounds are closed or mostly empty and ticket prices have almost been cut in half.. Very few show up to a race now-a-days. TV ratings are at an all time low. Economy? Lost interest? who knows. I can say for sure what people dont want to see.. Way too many commercials on TV, ( hell, every car is a commercial) one team dominating, cup people double or triple dipping, zero competition-- why are there only about 4 cars who could win a race other than a plate race by wreck attrition .People want to see 33 cars all within a half a lap of each other on most any track, not cars getting lapped in the first 10 laps and the field strung out ( like normal) in a freight train. hell if people need a nap, watch nascar at any track larger than 1/2 mile----------boring--------- and I mean very boring. Plate races are follow the leader until there are 3 laps left at every race------------boring------ I'm a die hard fan,( for quite a few years) but I'm dying fast with this style of racing and losing interest .
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Wish it was different for you man, really do.
 
Hopefully all these sandbags will be put to good use next time there is flooding taking place.
 
rocket dawg said:
Back when Chevy/Ford won so much there was a different attitude from nascar. The stands were packed, tickets were being scalped, and race tracks and neighboring motels/ hotels/camp grounds/towns were getting rich and so was nascar. The lines for a go-cart race near the track were an hour long, Now? no go cart tracks, camp grounds are closed or mostly empty and ticket prices have almost been cut in half.. Very few show up to a race now-a-days. TV ratings are at an all time low. Economy? Lost interest? who knows. I can say for sure what people dont want to see.. Way too many commercials on TV, ( hell, every car is a commercial) one team dominating, cup people double or triple dipping, zero competition-- why are there only about 4 cars who could win a race other than a plate race by wreck attrition .People want to see 33 cars all within a half a lap of each other on most any track, not cars getting lapped in the first 10 laps and the field strung out ( like normal) in a freight train. hell if people need a nap, watch nascar at any track larger than 1/2 mile----------boring--------- and I mean very boring. Plate races are follow the leader until there are 3 laps left at every race------------boring------ I'm a die hard fan,( for quite a few years) but I'm dying fast with this style of racing and losing interest .
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When Nascar was growing up and even at its high point there were cars many laps down.
I watched races where the 3rd place car was giving it all he had and he was 2 laps down to the leaders. Expecting every car to be less than a 1/2 lap difference is unobtainable. Heck even in Iroc they had a hard time doing that.
 
rocket dawg said:
Back when Chevy/Ford won so much there was a different attitude from nascar. The stands were packed, tickets were being scalped, and race tracks and neighboring motels/ hotels/camp grounds/towns were getting rich and so was nascar. The lines for a go-cart race near the track were an hour long, Now? no go cart tracks, camp grounds are closed or mostly empty and ticket prices have almost been cut in half.. Very few show up to a race now-a-days. TV ratings are at an all time low. Economy? Lost interest? who knows. I can say for sure what people dont want to see.. Way too many commercials on TV, ( hell, every car is a commercial) one team dominating, cup people double or triple dipping, zero competition-- why are there only about 4 cars who could win a race other than a plate race by wreck attrition .People want to see 33 cars all within a half a lap of each other on most any track, not cars getting lapped in the first 10 laps and the field strung out ( like normal) in a freight train. hell if people need a nap, watch nascar at any track larger than 1/2 mile----------boring--------- and I mean very boring. Plate races are follow the leader until there are 3 laps left at every race------------boring------ I'm a die hard fan,( for quite a few years) but I'm dying fast with this style of racing and losing interest .
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I can remember ticket scalpers lined up on I81 hawking tickets for Bristol at ridiculous prices and just the buzz and vibrancy a Nascar race brought to an area. On US 12 the 100 mile stretch coming from the west was one big party that only got bigger the closer you got to the track but that has changed too. Times have changed and some of the changes are jarring.
 
First race I attended there were 7 cars on the lead lap at the end. Bristol 1990. Had the time of my life. Of course Davey beat Mark by like 8 inches or something? Racing is better now, more competitive. We almost have 16 different winners with 12-13 races to go! When is the last time we had as many winners as we've had this year and may have a few more?

Some things are fads. At one time in late 90's it was a fad to be a NASCAR fan. I think Nascar grew bigger than it's ever going to be again and I'm ok with it. Right Sizing is what it's going through and some drivers are going to have to take some pay cuts if they want to stay around a little while longer because sponsors are not going to shell out what they did.
 
Team Penske said:
When Nascar was growing up and even at its high point there were cars many laps down.
I watched races where the 3rd place car was giving it all he had and he was 2 laps down to the leaders. Expecting every car to be less than a 1/2 lap difference is unobtainable. Heck even in Iroc they had a hard time doing that.
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IROC! Mark Martin's playground!
 
My point is that nascar didnt care who won, they were rolling in dough and approving new race tracks, getting rid of "fun tracks" because of a lack of seating. At Michigan they added roughly 40,000 seats in turn 1. Today those seats are tore down and sold ( our local track bought some of them--Berlin Raceway) We had to get a camping spot on Wednesday or the place was full. We saw close racing back in the early 90's, 10 to 12 cars all on the backstretch at MIS going for the top spot. We were in row 4 and could see the cars for less than 1/4 of the time, but we still paid and were still sitting there till the checkered flag came out. We finally scored top row seats and paid a pretty penny for them. We had a group close to 50 people and growing every year. Today none of us attend. I'm probably the only one who still watches on a regular basis. When we go snowmobiling in February, I have to find a bar/restaurant with the race on (Daytona) and watch at least the 2nd half. Nascar needs to level the playing field soon or the sport isnt going to survive. Tv ratings, empty seats, and sponsors not willing to play(pay) the game anymore ($$) The ASA circuit sold out for every race in the 90's, today that racing series dont exist. NBC isnt helping either. I watched the race in mute mode and did MRN on the radio. Only problem was that the radio was 20 seconds ahead of the tv broadcast. Larson was half way down the backstretch on radio and on tv the green flag just dropped. Still it was better than the annoying NBC guys. 1.5 mile tracks have taken over but all are "areo" tracks and not very entertaining. In fact those are the races I dont watch anymore, just catch the highlights later. yes I saw a few IROC races in person, it was fun. Martin won and so did Earnhardt. I think they were driving Trans Am's.
 
As far as Toyotas, I'm gonna throw out something wild.

Harvick dominated from late 2014-2015, speed wise.

Now it's the 78. 2012-2013 it was the 48. 2011 was the 99. 2010 was the 11. 2009 was the 14/48. Teams gain advantages.

The field will catch up. Some of us just don't like seeing that 78 run so well
 
jaqua19 said:
As far as Toyotas, I'm gonna throw out something wild.

Harvick dominated from late 2014-2015, speed wise.

Now it's the 78. 2012-2013 it was the 48. 2011 was the 99. 2010 was the 11. 2009 was the 14/48. Teams gain advantages.

The field will catch up. Some of us just don't like seeing that 78 run so well
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It isn't that for me. I want to know that at least an effort is being made to make sure that all of the manufacturers are not only playing by the rules but don't have a large aero advantage.
 
StandOnIt said:
It isn't that for me. I want to know that at least an effort is being made to make sure that all of the manufacturers are not only playing by the rules but don't have a large aero advantage.
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The cars are inspected multiple times every weekend.
 
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