Toyota teams sandbagging?

StandOnIt said:
when did they bring a wind tunnel along? or dyno the engines?
Click to expand...
Not necessary.

NASCAR writes the rules and inspects all the cars in the same manner, thereby ensuring that manufacturers and race teams are "playing by the rules". If that were not the case, certain teams wouldn't fail the LIS or other inspections and lose privileges. Building and setting up cars according to the rules is what separates teams ... not favoritism or some other form of preferential treatment. If someone enjoys a T-Ball mentality, there are other things that could be done ... a claiming rule, for example.
 
you are missing the point. The vehicles are checked periodically in wind tunnels. It hasn't been done recently, neither has any dyno tests that I am aware of. Before you start with the cracks, parity has been done in motorsports for years. For instance a form of parity is done every year with the NFL draft, handicapping in golf etc. other wise there isn't even a remote chance of stopping an organization from outspending all of the others and creating a one team dominance in any sport, not just motorsports. Who knows (we don't) and neither does Nascar at this point how even the cars are concerning aero. They could all be close to each other, or not.
 
StandOnIt said:
you are missing the point. The vehicles are checked periodically in wind tunnels. It hasn't been done recently, neither has any dyno tests that I am aware of. Before you start with the cracks, parity has been done in motorsports for years. For instance a form of parity is done every year with the NFL draft, handicapping in golf etc. other wise there isn't even a remote chance of stopping an organization from outspending all of the others and creating a one team dominance in any sport, not just motorsports. Who knows (we don't) and neither does Nascar at this point how even the cars are concerning aero. They could all be close to each other, or not.
Click to expand...
If the teams build chassis, engines and hang bodies within the limitations and specifications of the rules and the cars are inspected according to procedure, something close to "parity" is achieved.

I agree that a periodic aero-mapping analysis and engine output check on each manufacturer is a good idea. Are we certain that those things are not sometimes part of the inspections carried out on winning and randomly selected cars during the week following each race?
 
aunty dive said:
Are we certain that those things are not sometimes part of the inspections carried out on winning and randomly selected cars during the week following each race?
Click to expand...

That is my point. O'Donnell said the wind tunnel that they normally use is under construction. I believe they use that for high speed tracks. After all of the changes Nascar has made to reduce downforce, I would think they would check all the cars more to not only keep up with the crew chiefs but to see how well their changes are working.
 
jaqua19 said:
Some of us just don't like seeing that 78 run so well
Click to expand...

Why? I just don't get this. When the 4 was fast it sure pissed me off, but I absolutely respected and was intrigued by what Rodney and Kevin had going on.
 
StandOnIt said:
when did they bring a wind tunnel along? or dyno the engines?
Click to expand...

All of the manufacturers sign off on the bodies, and all of them know that **** will go on. As for the motors....when was the last time something illegal was found in a tear down? Spare me the 20's rod stuff in '13--wasn't a builder alive who thought that was actually an advantage. Isn't part of this damn sport to get ahead with the machinery? I mean no aero and no motor advantage and you have yourself IROC.
 
It is called parity, I know you are having a hard time getting a grip on that, but without it, and rules and specifications you have nothing. BTW the IROC series was built by one manufacturer, Parity is the opposite, it attemps to have more than one manufacturer compete. without it you will have IROC, one manufacturer outspending everybody else. Also not very healthy in these days and times.
 
StandOnIt said:
Who knows (we don't) and neither does Nascar at this point how even the cars are concerning aero. They could all be close to each other, or not.
Click to expand...

Look at the Manufacturers Standings. 15 pts. separates Chevy from the almighty dominant Toyotas....and yeah, Ford is in second 6pts. back. Close enough in terms of aero if you ask me. Nobody is going to bitch if Kyle Larson wins this whole damn thing in November while Toyota threw better aero numbers.
 
StandOnIt said:
It is called parity, I know you are having a hard time getting a grip on that, but without it, and rules and specifications you have nothing. BTW the IROC series was built by one manufacturer, Parity is the opposite, it attemps to have more than one manufacturer compete. without it you will have IROC, one manufacturer outspending everybody else. Also not very healthy in these days and times.
Click to expand...

Where was your concern about parity pre-encumbering? Didn't hear a thing. Penskes were the class of the field.
 
StandOnIt said:
It is called parity, I know you are having a hard time getting a grip on that, but without it, and rules and specifications you have nothing. BTW the IROC series was built by one manufacturer, Parity is the opposite, it attemps to have more than one manufacturer compete. without it you will have IROC, one manufacturer outspending everybody else. Also not very healthy in these days and times.
Click to expand...

Semantics. I get what I need to get. You hate Toyota. Fine. You have watched this enough to know that somebody else will come around cheat better or whatever, and your parity will be restored. You don't have to go back too far to see that. It will all be fine.
 
StandOnIt said:
O'Donnell said the wind tunnel that they normally use is under construction.
Click to expand...

O'Donnell was just saving face. He was never going to inspect those cars. He didn't like Brad being the straw that stirred the drink.
 
Revman said:
Where was your concern about parity pre-encumbering? Didn't hear a thing. Penskes were the class of the field.
Click to expand...

you are always trying to make it personal bud. but going into the playoffs by now, the cars probably gained much of the downforce they lost. Not checking them in a wind tunnel this time of the year isn't good. They checked them and the Fords had to change some things. It is called parity.
 
Revman said:
O'Donnell was just saving face. He was never going to inspect those cars. He didn't like Brad being the straw that stirred the drink.
Click to expand...
that is a lie. O'Donnell said that the wind tunnel they usually use was under construction.
 
StandOnIt said:
that is a lie. O'Donnell said that the wind tunnel they usually use was under construction.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but he never said that they intended to use it. O'Donnell is playing the game just like Brad. You know that whole Bill France nobody is bigger than the sport thing..... You gonna trust a guy who says he floated a rumor, but then didn't act on it and thought the response was comical? Really?
 
It is a common practice that hasn't been done this season.

O'Donnell said "the wind tunnel we would use for this is under construction" take that any way you want.

August 1st last year..evaluated for both engine and aero performance after Pocono.
http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-me...nascar-inspection-post-pocono-evaluation.html
"We will take those cars back to Conover and then we will have them go through the wind tunnel and we'll also evaluate the engines, as well. It was something we took the initiative to do, where NASCAR historically ‑‑ we did this at the All‑Star Race, but the All‑Star Race is obviously a shorter race.
 
Round and round and round ---- come on gentlemen, let's leave this merry-go-round.
Neither of you are going to change the other's mind.

Unless you're having fun. But some remarks are getting to be a bit personal. So be careful, please.
 
rocket dawg said:
Nascar needs to level the playing field soon or the sport isnt going to survive.
Click to expand...
What do you mean "level the playing field?" You just said a possible 16 different winners this year. What do you expect. 30 winners for 36 races? Your expectations are are unattainable and unrealistic.
 
Team Penske said:
What do you mean "level the playing field?" You just said a possible 16 different winners this year. What do you expect. 30 winners for 36 races? Your expectations are are unattainable and unrealistic.
Click to expand...
How about keep it as level as possible. Impounding all three manufacturers cars and dynoing the engines and checking for aero advantages is part of the process
 
StandOnIt said:
How about keep it as level as possible. Impounding all three manufacturers cars and dynoing the engines and checking for aero advantages is part of the process
Click to expand...
I don't care if you have the same shop with the same employees build 36 cars, your not going to get any better than it is right now. You couldn't put Jeff Gordon in a JJ car and you couldn't put Tony in Harvick's car. What I am saying is the combination of driver and CC is the most important piece of the puzzle and if you add 100 rules all you will do is make that even more important.
Joey got cucumbered and ever since he can't run in the top 10. At JGR he couldn't drive any cup car given to him but when he jumped in an Xfinity car he won nearly every race beating Kyle and Denny. He just had the wrong CC. That showed as soon as he got to Penske. Now Nascar has taken away what he had going for him and he has to start all over again to find what he can drive. He may never find it.
 
My bad, I thought that was settled about the testing. You are right they need to do this twice a year with no announcement prior and huge consequences for those in the Red area. Grey area I am not so sure about.
 
Ford 222 said:
I was thinking the usual number of winners was about 10 to 12. I guess it's more competitive than I thought.
Click to expand...
I think the number of organizations that win races today is pretty consistent with the history of the sport. It's just that now, those organizations are fielding two or more teams which wasn't going on back in the day. I think that's the only reason that we are seeing so many winners each season in this modern era. The norm used to be a lot less winners than we see these days.
 
StandOnIt said:
How about keep it as level as possible. Impounding all three manufacturers cars and dynoing the engines and checking for aero advantages is part of the process
Click to expand...

If this is what you want....generic bodies and crate motors supplied by the sanctioning body. Issue them before the race. Collect them in a hauler after the race. IROC. That's silly. The goal of any manufacturer is to get ahead. The car has to be part of this equation, or WTF the purpose of this sport? We need to get back to the cars being the stars every bit as much as the drivers who in the words of Lee White, "screw up a perfectly engineered race car."
 
Revman said:
If this is what you want....generic bodies and crate motors supplied by the sanctioning body. Issue them before the race. Collect them in a hauler after the race. IROC. That's silly. The goal of any manufacturer is to get ahead. The car has to be part of this equation, or WTF the purpose of this sport? We need to get back to the cars being the stars every bit as much as the drivers who in the words of Lee White, "screw up a perfectly engineered race car."
Click to expand...
yeah you are going around in a circle. Checking the cars is one of the jobs that Nascar does and they haven't done it this year. That is what a sanctioning body is supposed to do. It isn't build anything and that is ok. What a mess that would be.
 
Revman said:
If this is what you want....generic bodies and crate motors supplied by the sanctioning body. Issue them before the race. Collect them in a hauler after the race. IROC. That's silly. The goal of any manufacturer is to get ahead. The car has to be part of this equation, or WTF the purpose of this sport? We need to get back to the cars being the stars every bit as much as the drivers who in the words of Lee White, "screw up a perfectly engineered race car."
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
If anyone of the manufacturers has figured out how to make the current car go faster then let the others go to work and figure out something better.

This idea of having NASCAR conduct a witch hunt when cars fit templates etc is just busy work and you know what? Even if NASCAR came back and gave Toyota a clean bill of health the same complainers and conspiracy theorists will still be squawking because they didn't get the result they wanted. IMO much of the criticism against Toyota is for reasons other than NASCAR racing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
StandOnIt said:
yeah you are going around in a circle. Checking the cars is one of the jobs that Nascar does and they haven't done it this year. That is what a sanctioning body is supposed to do. It isn't build anything and that is ok. What a mess that would be.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but in this discussion the idea of inspecting the cars to neuter someone who has a legal advantage and checking for cheating is getting mixed up. Part of racing is to check for legality. I am all for that. Checking to make sure everybody is the same is the death sentence for manufacturer involvement. If you penalize somebody for doing their job well, this sport is done.
 
Revman said:
Part of racing is to check for legality. I am all for that.
Click to expand...

Bingo, and that hasn't been done. After all the aero changes Nascar has made and continues to make to reduce the downforce, they haven't taken all of the manufacturers into the wind tunnel or the engine dyno like they routinely do and should have been done before now. Any brand that is dominating the series gets the same criticism as Toyota is getting this year. I know it is all new to Toyota fans, but it has been going on for years.
 
StandOnIt said:
Bingo, and that hasn't been done. After all the aero changes Nascar has made and continues to make to reduce the downforce, they haven't taken all of the manufacturers into the wind tunnel or the engine dyno like they routinely do and should have been done before now. Any brand that is dominating the series gets the same criticism as Toyota is getting this year. I know it is all new to Toyota fans, but it has been going on for years.
Click to expand...
Several cars have thinner driver side walls that allow for a pocket of air to slip down the body. When the cars are slowed the panel pops back out into template place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom