What Do you Think of the New Package?

Speedbowl14

Speedbowl14

Ryan Preece and short tracks
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
4,228
Points
743
Location
SLC, Utah
Ok ok ok...one race in I know...but there's definitely some themes I picked up on.

As far as air-goes...the cars were super stable today even in a pack. I think this was evident by no accidents due to on-track crashes. I miss cars being lose.

Speaking of lose...Kyle Larson should have spun that car out today early on with that incredible save. Car or driver?? Obviously both but I feel like had he been in last year's car he would've wrecked.

Momentum will be KEY. Keep your foot on the gas or you're gonna drop like a rock. This will be more pronounced at the faster tracks.

Not really sure I saw "runs" like the talking heads were saying. I saw guys lose momentum and fall back...but I didn't see anyone draft another car and pass them due to said draft.

Overall...kinda what was expected...stable cars and close racing but I miss these guys being on the edge.
 
For me, the jury is still out. I can't really say whether or not I like or hate this package until I see a couple more races. This was the first time we saw the new package in race trim and in a race where points matter. I'll be sure to watch to see how it does during the West Coast Swing.
 
I've got to see more than just one race. It may take 1/2 the season for me to decide.
I enjoyed the race today. It was good to see cars using different grooves -- moving around.
I think the teams still have work to do and they still need to figure out what their driver will need.
In other words, they need to build a notebook. One race is just not enough.
 
It looked more like stock car racing today and that’s what I wanna say. People making contact and racing hard without wrecking.

Last year was entertaining but contact was almost impossible on anything longer than Phoenix and looked more like giant sprint cars with their insane throttle control and low grip. It was entertaining just didn’t feel very NASCAR in my opinion. Just like football, part of this sport is about making contact
 
I think the fact that it was Atlanta masked some of the deficiencies of these rules. On fresh tires the cars seemed pretty grippy and stayed packed together for about 15 laps or so. After the tires start to go you start to fight the car and the track more than the other drivers and it thinned out into more of the technical race that Atlanta usually is. Not quite as much braking and lifting as you usually see at Atlanta, but a good amount nonetheless. But that surface isn't going to be the one we run on most of the year...I guess that will be a good thing if you like cars packed closer together, and less of one if you want to see drivers challenged by the car and track. My guess is next week you'll see something resembling the packs we had early on for 25-30 laps, and then afterwards a little separation but not nearly to the extent we saw today.

I did notice more instances of aero wash when you were packed up right behind someone. And there seems to be a lot more dirty air back in the pack as guys like Larson, Almirola, Stenhouse were never heard from again once they got their penalties. Larson in particular went from being maybe the fastest guy on the track to not even being able to crack the Top 10 again. Maybe this will be different with the aero ducts making it easier to suck up and get a run on someone but it wasn't encouraging. Also, I hope no one starts a drinking game with "momentum" included if today was an indication.
 
I give the last two posts credit for recovering the discussion. Two different perspectives, one I agree with, one I don't, both well stated. There is room for disagreement unless you're stuck on the idea you have the only right answer.
 
I thought the racing was pretty good - the cars were stable all over the track, especially on new tires. That made for some good racing through the field and I enjoyed it. Still not seen enough to judge the package but I liked the race today. Yeah, it’s fun seeing cars on the edge being wheeled by the great drivers but other factors can make for good racing too.

But if one of the main goals of the package was to lessen the clean-air advantage, that seemed to work. There was quite a bit of racing up front and the clean air advantage certainly wasn’t as noticeable as last year. In this race at least.
 
The Atlanta track with its three viable grooves and tire-eating ultra low grip surface will produce an interesting event with just about any rules package imaginable. It's not a good canary in the mine to indicate whether this new thing is actual precious metal or merely fool's gold. Next week will be much more useful for that purpose.

That said, I was grumpy all day about Nascar's new racing philosophy... to de-emphasize car control skills and replace it with a game of momentum management intended to produce more randomness in outcomes. Larry Mac provided the bottom line numbers... 2019 drivers backed down to half-throttle for a second or two... 2018 drivers lifted entirely and used brakes for 6 - 7 seconds before getting back on the gas.

I haven't seen anything yet to change my opinions, which I've stated numerous times dating back to May 19, 2018 after the All Star Race. However, as a long time fan of Brad Keselowski and Team Penske, I did enjoy today's finish..:oops:
 
They raced. I watched. I was entertained. I don't ask for much more than that.

A 43 lap run to the finish yielding a margin of victory of .218 sec..... Sure, side by side, fender banging, pedal to the floor, fist fights on the back stretch would have been better..... but give it time. Those are tough to come by on a weekly basis. Maybe next week?

Little known fact..... a blink of an eye takes around 1/3 of a second.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I think the fact that it was Atlanta masked some of the deficiencies of these rules. On fresh tires the cars seemed pretty grippy and stayed packed together for about 15 laps or so. After the tires start to go you start to fight the car and the track more than the other drivers and it thinned out into more of the technical race that Atlanta usually is. Not quite as much braking and lifting as you usually see at Atlanta, but a good amount nonetheless. But that surface isn't going to be the one we run on most of the year...I guess that will be a good thing if you like cars packed closer together, and less of one if you want to see drivers challenged by the car and track. My guess is next week you'll see something resembling the packs we had early on for 25-30 laps, and then afterwards a little separation but not nearly to the extent we saw today.

I did notice more instances of aero wash when you were packed up right behind someone. And there seems to be a lot more dirty air back in the pack as guys like Larson, Almirola, Stenhouse were never heard from again once they got their penalties. Larson in particular went from being maybe the fastest guy on the track to not even being able to crack the Top 10 again. Maybe this will be different with the aero ducts making it easier to suck up and get a run on someone but it wasn't encouraging. Also, I hope no one starts a drinking game with "momentum" included if today was an indication.
Click to expand...
Seconded
 
It wasn't nearly as exciting as I was hoping for, but not terrible. As has been said, I'm not going to judge too much based on Atlanta. I don't think we will have an ultimate solution until we get an engine package that doesn't kill acceleration in an effort to reduce horsepower.
 
I enjoyed what I saw, so far. But I want to see a few more races, a few more type of tracks, etc. Basically ask me after we pretty give me another month or two, and see what I think.
 
The restarts were great. The balance of the race was typical Atlanta. Except for the last lap the car that got the lead at the start and restart stayed there with as much as a 4.5 second lead over second.
Being the first race with this package I will give it some time to cure.
 
The race was great. Knew it would be. All good. It's going to be great this weekend too. TRD cars have speed. That's all I need. :)
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't think we will have an ultimate solution until we get an engine package that doesn't kill acceleration in an effort to reduce horsepower.
Click to expand...
I don't understand what you're asking for. Terminal speed is when aerodynamic drag equals rear wheel horsepower. When you corner at (or near) terminal speed, there is zero (or near zero) acceleration available. If you want acceleration off the corner, you need a significant difference between cornering speed and terminal speed. That means more power and/or less drag and/or slower mid-corner speed (less downforce).

How can you have acceleration off the corner if you've deliberately rigged the regulations to make corner speed and terminal speed about the same?
 
Jury is still out for me. I definately want to see more with the aero ducts to see just how the complete package operates. The racing was great yesterday and if second places car is good enough, the leader can be run down with Larson and Harvick.

Lets see how the West Coast swing works out and then we will have a better idea of the whole shebang.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I don't understand what you're asking for. Terminal speed is when aerodynamic drag equals rear wheel horsepower. When you corner at (or near) terminal speed, there is zero (or near zero) acceleration available. If you want acceleration off the corner, you need a significant difference between cornering speed and terminal speed. That means more power and/or less drag and/or slower mid-corner speed (less downforce).

How can you have acceleration off the corner if you've deliberately rigged the regulations to make corner speed and terminal speed about the same?
Click to expand...
I dunno about Formerjackman, but I'm not as concerned about acceleration off the corner at terminal speed as much as acceleration after slowing. How fast can the car get back up to speed after slowing because it came up on slower car too quickly, or because it couldn't run a flat corner at terminal speed, or coming off pit road, or on a restart, or because it's stuck behind a couple of slower cars and a hole opens, or ...
 
As dpkimmel said, they raced and I watched. I was entertained. The only thing I can say is that the cars are slower and bunched up together more. Before I say it is better or worse, I need to see more of the package in action.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I dunno about Formerjackman, but I'm not as concerned about acceleration off the corner at terminal speed as much as acceleration after slowing. How fast can the car get back up to speed after slowing because it came up on slower car too quickly, or because it couldn't run a flat corner at terminal speed, or coming off pit road, or on a restart, or because it's stuck behind a couple of slower cars and a hole opens, or ...
Click to expand...
Charlie, contemplate the asymptotes. In 2018, gearing for many tracks yielded a terminal speed around 220 mph but cornering was 150 or thereabouts. The result was... acceleration. In 2019, terminal speed is down to 180 (due to higher drag and less power), and cornering is up to 170 (more downforce). The result is... very little acceleration once the driver attains 4th gear. This is not a surprise. This was known from the beginning.
 
O liked it!
 
I feel asleep shortly after the first stage. When I woke up went to bed and got up in time to watch 60 minutes. 60 minutes was more entertaining. I'm done watching cars go in circles. Have fun guys/girls.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Charlie, contemplate the asymptotes. In 2018, gearing for many tracks yielded a terminal speed around 220 mph but cornering was 150 or thereabouts. The result was... acceleration. In 2019, terminal speed is down to 180 (due to higher drag and less power), and cornering is up to 170 (more downforce). The result is... very little acceleration once the driver attains 4th gear. This is not a surprise. This was known from the beginning.
Click to expand...
Okay, let me put it another way. Atlanta didn't look anything like Daytona or Talladega, my biggest fear.
 
I am going to wait for a few more races before I place a judgment on this new package, the overall race at Atlanta was good though .
 
KTMLew01 said:
I feel asleep shortly after the first stage. When I woke up went to bed and got up in time to watch 60 minutes. 60 minutes was more entertaining. I'm done watching cars go in circles. Have fun guys/girls.
Click to expand...

So, that would be a Do Not Like vote.
 
Atlanta was the worst track to showcase this package due to the tire wear, but I will say that the first 2 laps after restarts were more exciting than normal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom