What should Chads penalty be CHEATING AGAIN?

dpkimmel2001 said:
Chad Knaus appeal set for next Tuesday in Charlotte.
Click to expand...

Appeal concelled. Evidence burned in Daytona fire in cost saving Jet dryer / filing cabinet.

Chad will probably get a big reduction, but those comments last year are going to hurt him.
 
Flashback to 1966.....

Junior Johnson's one-off draws howls of protest at Atlanta

​
Long, long ago, before the current, on-going C-Postgate, NASCAR had Bananagate.
And it created as much controversy in 1966, especially since it involved the legend-to-be Junior Johnson.
As most stock car racing fans are aware, the sanctioning body has slapped a severe penalty on five-time Cup Series champion Jimmie Johnson – no relation to Junior – and his Hendrick Motorsports team, led by crew chief Chad Knaus.
During inspection prior to the Daytona 500, the No. 48 Chevrolet was found to be in violation of body rules because of alleged modifications to the C-Post area around the windows.
Johnson was dealt a 25-point penalty and Rick Hendrick the same amount in owner points.
Hardest hit was Knaus, fined $100,000 and suspended for six races.
Going into Sunday’s Kobalt Tools 400 at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, the penalties are on hold pending appeal.
The incident has revved up memories of Junior Johnson’s infamous "Banana Car" of 46 years ago.
It happened in early August of '66 as NASCAR staged the Dixie 400 at the track then known as Atlanta International Raceway. It’s now Atlanta Motor Speedway.
Junior, reputed to be a master at "fudging," showed up for the race with a Ford that was so drastically modified that it quickly was tagged with such nicknames as “The Yellow Banana” and “The Magnifluxed Monster.” Most popularly, it was called “Junior’s Joke.”
My friend and co-author Steve Waid and I related the tale in the authorized biography, “Junior Johnson: Brave In Life.”
Partially paraphrased, here goes:
At the request of John Holman of the famous Holman-Moody operation, Junior fielded a Ford for driver Fred Lorenzen in the Dixie 400. Junior had an informal working agreement with Holman, a close friend.
Junior and his crew arrived at the track with a car that immediately ignited a barrage of fireworks and howls of protest from rivals. The car was supposed to be a Ford, but its profile looked like nothing that had come out of Detroit.
The front sloped downward, the roof was cut very low and the rear end was raised. Because the car carried sponsor Holly Farms’ yellow paint scheme, it was likened to a banana.
Smokey Yunick, another imaginative car builder, had brought an equally strange-looking Chevelle to Atlanta for driver Curtis Turner.
A ruckus raged over both cars, but they were cleared to race by NASCAR, which rejected three other machines, including those of Ned Jarrett, Bernard Alvarez and Cotton Owens, fielding a Dodge for David Pearson. Owens’ car was rigged with a device to lower the vehicle from the ****pit after the race started.
Turning away Jarrett, Alvarez and Owens – while clearing the cars of Junior and Smokey – further fueled an already incendiary situation.
“I realize that Lorenzen and Turner are valuable drawing cards,” said an irate Owens. “But that doesn’t make what’s happening right.”
The discord doubled, both among fans and competitors, when Turner won the pole at 148.331 mph. Lorenzen qualified third fastest.
Both of the immensely popular drivers were to lead at the 1.5-mile track in their "modifieds."
But just past the halfway mark of the 267-lap race, a distributor failure sidelined Turner and a blown tire led to a crash that forced Lorenzen to park. Richard Petty triumphed in a Plymouth, taking the checkered flag two seconds ahead of runner-up Buddy Baker in a Ray Fox-fielded Dodge.
“I built the car because John Holman was a friend and he asked me to help him out,” a smiling Junior Johnson said years later. “He said, 'Build me something that will run,’ and I did.
“We had a heck of a time getting through inspection. We took that car to body shops all around Atlanta, making changes before we got it close enough for NASCAR to approve.”
It was the first – and only – time the car with a body so radically curved like a banana or a boomerang was allowed to race. NASCAR, sensitive to a barrage of criticism, quietly told Junior not to bring it back.
He was assessed no penalty.
Jimmie Johnson, Rick Hendrick and Chad Knaus should be so lucky.
Click to expand...
 
Matthew2470 said:
That's a great article. I would love to see pics of some of those cheated up cars.
Click to expand...
FL_26Banana_A.jpg



FL_26Banana_B.jpg


The Yellow Banana Car Story!
 
Now, I can believe that NASCAR decided to pull the 48 from the lineup and all.

But I can't believe they didn't put the claw on it before they pulled it. But then again, if they knew the claw would touch the spots it needed to, and something else in a 3rd dimension was out of whack, they did it then.

Something tells me, Chad is getting good at cheating that claw.

It sounds a lot like the infraction at Sonoma. The claw didn't touch the fenders where NASCAR said Chad took it "too far".

Same with the C pillar I bet.

It will be interesting to see how this works out.
 
The common belief is that Chad's comments at Talladega last year led to all of this. They sought out the 48 determined to find something. I would love to be in attendance at the appeal hearing.
 
If they really wanted to mess with the 48 team though they could have took the whole car back to the R&D Center.Instead of letting him replace the parts in question.
 
mike honcho said:
If they really wanted to mess with the 48 team though they could have took the whole car back to the R&D Center.Instead of letting him replace the parts in question.
Click to expand...

I think that would have been easier on them. They'd have only had to unload a back up car. Making them replace those parts was far more diabolical.
 
mike honcho said:
If they really wanted to mess with the 48 team though they could have took the whole car back to the R&D Center.Instead of letting him replace the parts in question.
Click to expand...

I think I know what nascar is doing. Someone told them that those c-post covers had been altered in a way that would pass the template, so they didn't allow the car to pass the template. HMS can't argue that it did, and now nascar is free use the detrimental argument without having to explain how fitting the template is detrimental to the sport.
 
I recently read that since they've been together they've won a total of 110 million. Now I know there's expenses etc but does anyone think a 100 grand fine means much to them? Also that Chad's been fined and/or suspended 4 or 5 times.
Na$car is in a tough position, sponsors would go nutz if their car was not permitted to race. So my solution is to let'em race and get the TV exposure. But no points, no money. Bet that would tingle a bit.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
FL_26Banana_A.jpg



FL_26Banana_B.jpg


The Yellow Banana Car Story!
Click to expand...

Many of you should read up on the story, this is not a pic of the actual car it is a pic of a model car. The car was built not to cheat the rules but to make a point that many cars where heavily modified and not the same as their "Showroom" conterparts. There where No Templates in 1966, NASCAR officials used to go out in the parking lot to find a similar New Model and "Eyeball It"..... sometimes they even used a tape measure.
This is another example of a car being built to Point Out Faults in the rules and develop new rules......BTW check into Who Funded the building of the car.
 
The results should be in by tomorrow this time on #48 infractions. Any predictions?

7.5% overturned. NASCAR says 145 appeals since '99: 101 were upheld; 31 were reduced; 11 were overturned; 2 were increased










.
 
I'm gonna say it gets overturned, at least partially anyway. Maybe more money but I think the suspensions go away. As far as the points, IDK. I'd like to see those back to the 48.
 
It will be interesting to see how the part about the car never getting to the template will be handled by the arbitrators
 
Don't hold back Kyleo_O

Kyle Petty criticizes NASCAR appeal process

Former driver and current TV analyst Kyle Petty thinks the NASCAR appeal process is out of date.

Petty criticized NASCAR's appeals committee as it readies for Tuesday's hearing of penalties assessed to Chad Knaus, Jimmie Johnson and Hendrick Motorsports on Sunday's SPEED TV "Race Day" program:

"You want to talk about a crapshoot. This appeals process is a crapshoot. There are 45 members on this board. If you go the NASCAR rule book, you'll see these people's names. Some of them may have passed away since their names were put in here. That's how old these people are. These people shouldn't be judging Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus and some of this stuff. I challenge anybody out there to find me more than eight or 10 out of this 45 who have been to the race track in the last 12 to 24 months. These people don't go to the race track, they don't understand the process. They don't understand sometimes where this sport is. They're great business people. They're past drivers, champions, past sports car racers, past engine builders. Doesn't make any difference. I think they should be judged by their peers. In this environment, in this environment we race in today, if you commit a crime or you do something, you should be judged by people who understand the sport and what is going on. And I don't think the appeals process is a good process, but at the same time, I don't think the fine or what they've done to Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus is anywhere near legit. It's total BS. They never should have fined them because the car never made it onto the race track.

‘How can they (appeals panel) override it (the penalty)? They don't even understand the sport – look at the names on this list. The ‘Room of Doom,' the way these templates fit and everything that goes on (inspection) – it's a complicated process. I'm not even sure I could judge Chad on it because I don't go down there and watch them put those templates on that car. I don't know what the sport is sometimes and how it changes. I think (Mike) Helton is a better judge of it. I think (John) Darby is a better judge of it. I think Robin (Pemberton) is a better judge of it because they're right in there, but to take it (appeals hearing) out of this context and take it somewhere else, I don't appreciate that. I don't like it.”
http://www.cbssports.com/general/bl...0/kyle-petty-criticizes-nascar-appeal-process
 
The appeals board is full of old people who are completely out of touch with the sport so it's tough to say what will come of this.
 
According to NASCAR, the key rule the No. 48 team was found to be in violation of was Section 20-2.1E -- unapproved car body modifications, specifically any part of the car modified to enhance aerodynamic performance.

I think Rick needs to point out that there were no fines for the Gibbs oil pans, which were an aero tweek, and are part of the car. NASCAR said it was because they never made it on the track. This is where Rick's assertion that the 48 parts had raced already may hurt HMS.

Someone in the media had said that C-post covers are bought from the car manufacturers and can't be altered. If that's true, HMS is toast and nascar can argue that the suspensions cover all those races HMS admited they had used those altered parts in.

Add in the 'crack the rear' comment while JJ sat in the very same car, and I'm a little surprised nascar didn't hit HMS with the catch-all 'actions detremental' rule, which covers anything they say it covers.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Kyle Petty's comments on the appeal board were spot on. Does anyone really think that Lynn St James and Janet Guthrie have any business on a NASCAR appeals board? When was the last time they were even at a NASCAR race?
Click to expand...

I think nascar picks a few to hear the appeal. I wonder how that works.
 
I agree with Kyle Petty. It's a crapshoot. And like MOEJOE said, it didn't actually go through the templates. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it. Also according to Chad, this car was presented and passed 4 other times. Why all the templates if you're not gonna put the car through to verify your suspicion anyway. Be like a cop throwing you in jail for drunk driving with no tests or breathalyzer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom