NASCAR Death Bed

StandOnIt said:
Here is the question..In other words you aren't in a position to do any good what so ever #nothelpingwhiner.

And I'll politely ask how all this arguing and complaining on a message board will get NASCAR to right the ship.
I really would like to know --- I'm not blowing hot air. I'm really curious how this will help.
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Not really sure why you continue to attempt to shame or whatever you are doing with the #nothelpingwhiner.:rolleyes: Also, that isn't polite.

And I'll politely ask how all this arguing and complaining on a message board will get NASCAR to right the ship by defending everything it has done as an entity while the rating go down and the attendance at the track has too, and posting hot stock takes on track owners and the "higher divident" they pay.
I really would like to know --- I'm not blowing hot air. I'm really curious how this will help
 
What really concerns me about this thread is that many of you take the opportunity to question the sanity/intelligence of the poster
who doesn't agree with you or dares to post an opposing opinion. If this place exists so that opinions can be voiced, I would like to think that includes opposing opinions.

Some seem to take an opposing opinion as a personal attack.
 
Interesting, the post that term was used within was changed and the term deleted. It is still within the quote I made my reply to though. Can you say screen shot. No answer to the question posed about it being personal. Maybe the removal of the term was the answer?
 
Towmater said:
Interesting, the post that term was used within was changed and the term deleted. It is still within the quote I made my reply to though. Can you say screen shot. No answer to the question posed about it being personal. Maybe the removal of the term was the answer?
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It takes me a minute sometimes because I'm looking at other threads and posts. And trying to eat my lunch.
And yes, I removed the # because it was personal.
 
Looking at the crowd at Bristol today I think it's clear they need to rethink their ticket prices. They are extremely high relative to everywhere else I was looking. Short track wise, a good seat at Richmond or Martinsville will run your $60-$80. A good seat at Bristol runs you $115-$140.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Looking at the crowd at Bristol today I think it's clear they need to rethink their ticket prices. They are extremely high relative to everywhere else I was looking. Short track wise, a good seat at Richmond or Martinsville will run your $60-$80. A good seat at Bristol runs you $115-$140.
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I was out on a mini adventure this afternoon and just got in and turned on the race and I can't believe my eyes as where did all the fans go?
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
I was out on a mini adventure this afternoon and just got in and turned on the race and I can't believe my eyes as where did all the fans go?
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according to the nascar approved narrative, they decided to eat their $150 tickets instead of driving out to the track. Because you know, who cares that thousands are wasted on hotel, transportation, and event tickets, it’s a bit rainy to go outside.
 
joe h said:
according to the nascar approved narrative, they decided to eat their $150 tickets instead of driving out to the track. Because you know, who cares that thousands are wasted on hotel, transportation, and event tickets, it’s a bit rainy to go outside.
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I'd say the ones there were the ones with hotels. The locals probably stayed home.
 
StandOnIt said:
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I haven't seen anyone bitch about the awful attendance today or at many other races. I have seen people comment that the poor attendance is indicative of overall interest, has to do with start times, laugh derisively about it and speak of the high cost of attending a race. Kenny should stick to kissing Brian's ass as he is a pro at it.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I hate to go to bat for Boston of all cities but they had a home playoff hockey game last night and a home basketball playoff game earlier today. Not the weekend where their fans are going to prioritize baseball.
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You could point out that the season just got started, that they played Baltimore who they beat in the 2 games they played before today's game and that baseball isn't ashamed to provide the attendance numbers of their games. BTW, 32K was a heck of a lot more at one baseball game than NASCAR had in the stands today.
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
I haven't seen anyone bitch about the awful attendance today or at many other races. I have seen people comment that the poor attendance is indicative of overall interest, has to do with start times, laugh derisively about it and speak of the high cost of attending a race. Kenny should stick to kissing Brian's ass as he is a pro at it.
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I'm not as disturbed by the empty seats as others. I knew 10-15 years ago that there was no way some of these tracks would be able to operate at 100% capacity, or even close, year after year. In truth, the true boom period was a very small time frame in the overall history of NASCAR.

My issue is the optics at this point at some of these tracks with all these empty seats. Humans very much like to be "where the parties at/follow the herd". When the seats are filled and there's a ton of energy people want to be a part of whatever is going on. I've said for the last 2-3 years that Bristol should horseshoe the track so you have one end that has a clear view of "Thunder Valley". While some might like the impressive nature of the "coliseum look" I like my Bristol with about 75k seats and panoramic views of the surrounding area.
 
StandOnIt said:
be excited bud, now you can say the whole crowd got in free and they still couldn't fill the place. It's so simple.
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They will be lucky to have 30k there tomorrow, in a place that seats 120k, but it's ok Nascar is doing great, the declining attendance is just a mirage, everything is great.
 
I'm not crying, big difference in stating facts and crying....I'm stating facts, you are on the other hand looking through rose colored glasses.
 
StandOnIt said:
could be the photo, but it looks like they shrunk the track
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It just got smaller proportionally to the amount of seats...lol.

IMO, they simply wrote checks (built seats/suites) their butts couldn't cash (fill) in the long run. 1996 Bristol with a nice section of suites along the front straight would be ideal in 2018.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
I'm not as disturbed by the empty seats as others. I knew 10-15 years ago that there was no way some of these tracks would be able to operate at 100% capacity, or even close, year after year. In truth, the true boom period was a very small time frame in the overall history of NASCAR.

My issue is the optics at this point at some of these tracks with all these empty seats. Humans very much like to be "where the parties at/follow the herd". When the seats are filled and there's a ton of energy people want to be a part of whatever is going on. I've said for the last 2-3 years that Bristol should horseshoe the track so you have one end that has a clear view of "Thunder Valley". While some might like the impressive nature of the "coliseum look" I like my Bristol with about 75k seats and panoramic views of the surrounding area.
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They will eventually have to do this, all the other tracks have cuts seats by 40% or more.
 
Mopardh9 said:
They will eventually have to do this, all the other tracks have cuts seats by 40% or more.
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I think the only tracks that haven't physically removed grandstands (besides perhaps Indy) are Darlington and Pocono. Pocono has reduced capacity by adding chairbacks and widening the bleacher sections. They went from about 100k to 75k by doing that.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
I think the only tracks that haven't physically removed grandstands (besides perhaps Indy) are Darlington and Pocono. Pocono has reduced capacity by adding chairbacks and widening the bleacher sections. They went from about 100k to 75k by doing that.
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ISC is spending 7 million for better seats and redoing the concessions and the rest rooms at Darlington among other things wall of fame. The seats are wider so there will be less seating
 
StandOnIt said:
ISC is spending 7 million for better seats and redoing the concessions and the rest rooms at Darlington among other things wall of fame. The seats are wider so there will be less seating
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Makes sense!

There was a 3-5 year period after Hurricane Hugo destroyed a large grandstand section on the then back straight when Darlington had only 30k or so seats. I'm pretty sure it had the smallest capacity in NASCAR for several years. Less than North Wilkesboro and Martinsville at the time. Even when they added seats they never really got into seating capacity arms race. A big reason for that is Route 34.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Makes sense!

There was a 3-5 year period after Hurricane Hugo destroyed a large grandstand section on the then back straight when Darlington had only 30k or so seats. I'm pretty sure it had the smallest capacity in NASCAR for several years. Less than North Wilkesboro and Martinsville at the time. Even when they added seats they never really got into seating capacity arms race. A big reason for that is Route 34.
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I hope they show the viewers the Wall of Fame, every winner of the race since 1950 I wonder how that is designed.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
I'm not as disturbed by the empty seats as others. I knew 10-15 years ago that there was no way some of these tracks would be able to operate at 100% capacity, or even close, year after year. In truth, the true boom period was a very small time frame in the overall history of NASCAR.

My issue is the optics at this point at some of these tracks with all these empty seats. Humans very much like to be "where the parties at/follow the herd". When the seats are filled and there's a ton of energy people want to be a part of whatever is going on. I've said for the last 2-3 years that Bristol should horseshoe the track so you have one end that has a clear view of "Thunder Valley". While some might like the impressive nature of the "coliseum look" I like my Bristol with about 75k seats and panoramic views of the surrounding area.
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I agree and have said for years that the optics of Nascar races looking empty is awful. If you are a newbie tuning in the first thing you are going to think is "I wonder what is wrong and why people don't like this." Tracks like Talladega and Daytona have done a good job by ruthlessly eliminating seats and the 500 and 2 Alabama races looked packed when their races are held. Many more tracks need to get with the program and eliminate seats that will never be used again as they serve no purpose and act as a reminder of what once was.
 
Mopardh9 said:
They will be lucky to have 30k there tomorrow, in a place that seats 120k, but it's ok Nascar is doing great, the declining attendance is just a mirage, everything is great.
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No track every had good attendance on a rain-delay Monday, even in the boom years. Oh, and the place seats 160k.
 
Mopardh9 said:
They will be lucky to have 30k there tomorrow,
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Mopardh9 said:
160 -120, does matter anymore when you can't draw 50k?
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Nobody ever drew 30K or 50K on a rain-delay Monday. I've been to Charlotte, in the middle of a metropolitan area, on a rain delay SUNDAY after the October night race and still had my pick of seats. They would have been lucky to have 30K there in the early 2000's.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If you won't, regardless of the quality of the racing, why do you think 50,000 others will?
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Why do you think fans are leaving? I haven't gone to a Cup race since 2009, and I won't again until the racing gets better to the point where it's worth the ticket price. I can go to all the short tracks here in New England and watch great racing anytime I want.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Why do you think fans are leaving? I haven't gone to a Cup race since 2009, and I won't again until the racing gets better to the point where it's worth the ticket price. I can go to all the short tracks here in New England and watch great racing anytime I want.
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Why do I think they're leaving? I think many of them weren't 'fans' in the first place, just part of the popularity increase of the late '90s and early '00s. Others left during the recession and never came back. Still others left because they were fans of specific drivers, not fans of racing in general. And some are leaving because they are no longer satisified with the racing. There are many factors; changing the car won't compensate for all of them.

But you're changing the subject. Answer my previous question, please: if you're not willing attend on a cold, damp Monday, regardless of how good the racing is, why do you think others will?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Why do I think they're leaving? I think many of them weren't 'fans' in the first place, just part of the popularity increase of the late '90s and early '00s. Others left during the recession and never came back. Still others left because they were fans of specific drivers, not fans of racing in general. And some are leaving because they are no longer satisified with the racing. There are many factors; changing the car won't compensate for all of them.

But you're changing the subject. Answer my previous question, please: if you're not willing attend on a cold, damp Monday, regardless of how good the racing is, why do you think others will?
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Never said they would, why would they. All I'm pointing out is there was a waiting list to get Bristol tickets, now they are giving them away. I'll always watch and follow Nascar, but it doesn' mean I have to like it. Without critics how would the sport get better?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Why do I think they're leaving? I think many of them weren't 'fans' in the first place, just part of the popularity increase of the late '90s and early '00s. Others left during the recession and never came back. Still others left because they were fans of specific drivers, not fans of racing in general. And some are leaving because they are no longer satisified with the racing. There are many factors; changing the car won't compensate for all of them.

But you're changing the subject. Answer my previous question, please: if you're not willing attend on a cold, damp Monday, regardless of how good the racing is, why do you think others will?
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I agree that fad fans flocked to Nascar quickly and left quickly and they have been gone for years. I think the recession can be blamed for a decrease in attendance but should have absolutely no bearing on why viewership was down so something else was at work. I agree that there are driver fans and then there are race fans.

The problem for Nascar really isn't what happened 5-10-15 years ago it is what is happening today and that it an unprecedented erosion of fans ans sponsors that don't want to do business with Nascar unless it is for relative peanuts.

If what is happening interests me the weather won't impact my decision to go. I have sat in rainy and frigid football stadiums, was at the Toronto Blue Jays inaugural game when it snowed and have been to more than 1 Southern 500 where the heat and humidity are insufferable. My expectation is that people do what they want with discretionary time so if they wanna go to the event or stay home it is all good.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Why do I think they're leaving? I think many of them weren't 'fans' in the first place, just part of the popularity increase of the late '90s and early '00s. Others left during the recession and never came back. Still others left because they were fans of specific drivers, not fans of racing in general. And some are leaving because they are no longer satisified with the racing. There are many factors; changing the car won't compensate for all of them.

But you're changing the subject. Answer my previous question, please: if you're not willing attend on a cold, damp Monday, regardless of how good the racing is, why do you think others will?
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this is what i been saying since i started watching NASCAR going on 3 years now lol.. alot of these people that be at the track are not fans they just to fit in.. the stupidity at the track i hear from people is unbelievable, me and my girlfriend just look at each other and shake our heads lol.. i really think it was just something alot of people did because of popularity and to fit in with there family. a cool factor! the people that call in to the nascar channel just proves it even more too with the stuff they say.. i had a women in front of me after the championship race in HOMESTEAD turning in her headset .. she asked the woman beside her who won the race and the woman and man said i think martin jr and the girl that asked a question had a truex shirt on hahahaha.. its just a sport to me that i really just think alot of people watched to fit... they dont have a clue whats really going on
 
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