NASCAR considering radical changes to playoff system

And, yes, FOX Sports 1's ratings are as bad as StandOnIt and others claim they are. I'll put it this way, NBCSN cancelled The Crossover because of low ratings and their ratings were never as low as FOX Sports Live. Add in how much it costs for FOX Sports 1 to air three college basketball games a night every night for several months, several college football games on weekends, countless UFC bouts, UFC highlights shows, UFC reruns, football talks shows and so on. It's a disaster.
 
The demand for FOX Sports 1 isn't there. UFC won't help FOX because.........

UFC on Fox Sports 1 Wednesday Night Block (1/08):-
Big East Basketball: 73,000 viewers (7:00-9:00 PM)-
Best of UFC 2013: 160,000 viewers (9:00-11:00 PM)-
Fox Sports Live: 50,000 viewers (11:00 PM – 12:00 AM)

UFC on Fox Sports 1 Friday Night Block (1/10):-
Daytona Preseason: 320,000 viewers (1:00-5:00 PM) **-
Crowd Goes Wild: 55,000 viewers (5:00 – 6:00 PM)-
FOX Football Daily: 43,000 viewers (6:00 – 7:00 PM)-
Daytona Preseason: 130,000 viewers (7:00 – 8:00 PM)-
UFC Reloaded: 367,000 viewers (8:00-11:00 PM) *
- Fox Sports Live: 38,000 viewers (11:00 PM – 12:00 AM)


The #1 and #2 viewed FS1 programs were UFC
RERUNS. UFC Reloaded had more viewers than Daytona preseason. UFC fight night draws viewership of over 600,000

NASCAR is the one and only reason FX and FOX Sports 1 are household channels.

Those numbers are important to FS1. Then there is the PAC 12 and supercross. FS1 is less a one trick pony than Speed was.
 
UFC on Fox Sports 1 Wednesday Night Block (1/08):-
Big East Basketball: 73,000 viewers (7:00-9:00 PM)-
Best of UFC 2013: 160,000 viewers (9:00-11:00 PM)-
Fox Sports Live: 50,000 viewers (11:00 PM – 12:00 AM)

UFC on Fox Sports 1 Friday Night Block (1/10):-
Daytona Preseason: 320,000 viewers (1:00-5:00 PM) **-
Crowd Goes Wild: 55,000 viewers (5:00 – 6:00 PM)-
FOX Football Daily: 43,000 viewers (6:00 – 7:00 PM)-
Daytona Preseason: 130,000 viewers (7:00 – 8:00 PM)-
UFC Reloaded: 367,000 viewers (8:00-11:00 PM) *
- Fox Sports Live: 38,000 viewers (11:00 PM – 12:00 AM)


The #1 and #2 viewed FS1 programs were UFC
RERUNS. UFC Reloaded had more viewers than Daytona preseason. UFC fight night draws viewership of over 600,000



Those numbers are important to FS1. Then there is the PAC 12 and supercross. FS1 is less a one trick pony than Speed was.

Oh wow, UFC BARELY drew higher ratings than NASCAR TESTING. Not a NASCAR race, testing. The third-tier Truck Series races draw almost three times as many viewers. UFC Fight Night's 600,000 viewers is still less than NASCAR's third-tier Truck Series and less than what the ARCA races on SPEED draw actually.

Slice it however you want, these are not good ratings and UFC is not going to be FOX Sports 1's rise to prominence. MSNBC, which isn't even the highest news channel, demos those kind of numbers on a regular basis.
 
Gee I sure am glad up here in the great white north we still get the good ol' SPEED Channel :D While you guys are watching the crowd goes wild Im watching Pass Time and Pinks :)
 
What can I say? They're looking for a new demographic ..and I'm part of it.

Why wouldn't I think just based off of that that they must be doing something right?


How do you explain the fact that you were a fan BEFORE this tripe became a reality ???
 
Let's not forget also that FOX heavily promotes UFC coverage during their football coverage. They promote the hell out of UFC because they put all of FOX Sports 2 and half of FOX Sports 1's eggs in that basket. NASCAR Preseason Thunder didn't get any promotion on any FOX network and still drew almost as many viewers as the very heavily promoted UFC programming.

Going all in on UFC is a bust. Just about every channel on cable demos more viewers than FS1 totals.
 
Gee I sure am glad up here in the great white north we still get the good ol' SPEED Channel :D While you guys are watching the crowd goes wild Im watching Pass Time and Pinks :)


One more "arm drop" from that moron on Pinks and Im putting a round of hardball thru the old flat screen :mad:
 
Oh wow, UFC BARELY drew higher ratings than NASCAR TESTING. Not a NASCAR race, testing. The third-tier Truck Series races draw almost three times as many viewers. UFC Fight Night's 600,000 viewers is still less than NASCAR's third-tier Truck Series and less than what the ARCA races on SPEED draw actually.

Slice it however you want, these are not good ratings and UFC is not going to be FOX Sports 1's rise to prominence. MSNBC, which isn't even the highest news channel, demos those kind of numbers on a regular basis.

You don't seem to know what you are talking about. Do you realize those UFC shows were re-run clip shows?
Keep up the derp, though.
 
You don't seem to know what you are talking about. Do you realize those UFC shows were re-run clip shows?
Keep up the derp, though.

No ****. And they're still advertised and promoted heavily across the FOX networks ... moreso than live programming.

UFC is NOT a ratings powerhouse and FOX Sports 1 is clinging to SPEED's lucrative carriage agreement. IF UFC is their best programming, which it's not, they were doomed from the start. If they don't get those ratings up, there's a good chance FS1 will lose its household status. Hence why FOX wanted the TNT Summer Series before NASCAR nixed it.
 
UFC on Fox Sports 1 Wednesday Night Block (1/08):-
Big East Basketball: 73,000 viewers (7:00-9:00 PM)-
Best of UFC 2013: 160,000 viewers (9:00-11:00 PM)-
Fox Sports Live: 50,000 viewers (11:00 PM – 12:00 AM)

UFC on Fox Sports 1 Friday Night Block (1/10):-
Daytona Preseason: 320,000 viewers (1:00-5:00 PM) **-
Crowd Goes Wild: 55,000 viewers (5:00 – 6:00 PM)-
FOX Football Daily: 43,000 viewers (6:00 – 7:00 PM)-
Daytona Preseason: 130,000 viewers (7:00 – 8:00 PM)-
UFC Reloaded: 367,000 viewers (8:00-11:00 PM) *
- Fox Sports Live: 38,000 viewers (11:00 PM – 12:00 AM)


The #1 and #2 viewed FS1 programs were UFC
RERUNS. UFC Reloaded had more viewers than Daytona preseason. UFC fight night draws viewership of over 600,000



Those numbers are important to FS1. Then there is the PAC 12 and supercross. FS1 is less a one trick pony than Speed was.
Wow...FS1 is more of a disaster than I thought.
 
I don't like the way nascar determines the champion. IMO it was a hollow championship determined by 10 races, now by a single race. That doesn't mean I have to stop watching the races during the season, does it? I still enjoy watching the races, so why should I stop? I just think the championship has very little credibility due to nascar's continually altering the points for dramatic affect. How is saying that "getting bent out of shape"?

It's an internet message board. The reason we are here is to voice our opinions. What is pointless you telling people they need to stop doing that....

Hey everybody, you need to stop posting your opinions about the new point system at a place specifically designed for the purpose of people posting their opinions, if you don't like the new point system!

Good luck with that.


Your opinion is based on the fact that its a "hollow championship" even though all evidence will point to the fact that the person who wins will have not only earned a spot in the chase, but earned their way all the way through the rounds and into the final four where the driver will once again earn the championship by finishing better then the others.....How is that hollow? Your opinion of why you dont like the new system is based off some random idea in your head that somehow someway the guy who wins the championship didnt earn it? Please explain to me how he didnt earn it?

People come on here and bitch and moan about the way the product is, but then they park their asses in front of the TV to watch it. Its stupidity. If you dont like something dont watch it. I have never been able to understand why people complain about something when they have the power to change it.

My wife watches the stuipid as hell real housewife shows. I find them to be stupid. It would be like me watching those shows and bitching and complaining about them. You dont have to like the change, but this thread has been littered by people complaining about it. If the changes are so bad turn it off. Otherwise have the ability to let it play out and actually see if you like it. People are so resistant to the idea of change.

Im not telling anyone to not state their opinion, but if you have the opinion that the Championship is determined by 1 race why are you watching the others exactly? And why will you be watching the 9 leading up to that 1? And why will you be watching the last one? Because you like racing right? That still exists there. No matter what, the cars, drivers and teams are still racing. Or are you a glutton for punishment or someone who just likes to spend their time and energy on something they dont like?

Thats where I get disconnected from others. Its one thing to have a discussion about it. Maybe say what you like and dont like, but it takes some serious close mindedness to not look at the changes made and see some areas of excitement. I agree with you about the final race determining it all. I dont really like that either, but not because its hollow. I just dont like the idea of 13th through 16th having 3 races to advance while the guys who earned(theres that word again) their way to the final four only get 1 shot at it.

A lot of the detractors are seeing the new system as a 1 race for it all and deeming it "hollow" instead of looking past it and seeing the excitement that will be in every race, the decison making that will have to take place and the fact that it will force nearly every guy to have to race instead of sandbagging when they develop a comfortable lead in the points.

I guess I just choose to look past the areas that I dont like because I am able to see the areas of improvement.
 
That has always irked me. Why come to a message board just to tell people to shut up and don't talk about this or that? When I first started posting here, the place was full of those types of nannies. It was so bad, many members simply lurked because they were afraid to post something and have the nanny pack rip them to pieces.

It's a very strange hobby, for sure.


Where am I telling people to shut up? What I am simply stating is what slice was saying earlier. Try embracing the change because at the end of the day it is happening and you will be watching the product anyways. Unless people just like to be miserable, which if that is the case I cant understand.
 
A lot of the detractors are seeing the new system as a 1 race for it all and deeming it "hollow" instead of looking past it and seeing the excitement that will be in every race, the decison making that will have to take place and the fact that it will force nearly every guy to have to race instead of sandbagging when they develop a comfortable lead in the points.

I disagree here too.

The last two seasons, as a Gordon fan, were incredibly intense. Every race mattered - from the poor luck in the spring that dug a deep hole to somehow climbing out during the spring months to make the top ten/twelve by Richmond. I remember the 2012 August Pocono race - I was at the beach with family and the whole day I really couldn't wait to get back home and play the recording of that race because of how tight the points were. Now it's like the NBA where you don't need much more than a pulse to make the Chase. Gordon would almost have to lose a limb to not make the Chase now. As much as I didn't like the prior format, I'd still take it over this.
 
Do you have evidence to support the statement that it's newer fans who quit watching? I'd say it's entirely possible that it's the tens of thousands of Jr fans who file out of the stands when he wrecked that aren't showing up and aren't watching anymore.

Brian France himself has made statements in the past about Jr not winning being the result of ratings declines. I'm sure he has the evidence to support his statements.
If the newer fans are still watching/going to the races who is Brian France trying to reach the jr fans that left?
 
I disagree here too.

The last two seasons, as a Gordon fan, were incredibly intense. Every race mattered - from the poor luck in the spring that dug a deep hole to somehow climbing out during the spring months to make the top ten/twelve by Richmond. I remember the 2012 August Pocono race - I was at the beach with family and the whole day I really couldn't wait to get back home and play the recording of that race because of how tight the points were. Now it's like the NBA where you don't need much more than a pulse to make the Chase. Gordon would almost have to lose a limb to not make the Chase now. As much as I didn't like the prior format, I'd still take it over this.

Im not sure about how much I like the idea of 16 either, but it does have a level of unpredictability associated with it. I think we can all agree that if a David Gilliland were to score a win and get into the chase that the odds of him advancing would be slim, but there is always that chance and people like an underdog story. If that were to happen it would definitely draw in ratings as the story began to pick up steam. I think thats where NASCAR has that idea.

I can see your point, but not everone is a Jeff Gordon fan thus having little to root or cheer for if their guy is out of contention mid way through the season. Myself being a Bobby Labonte fan had my optimism crushed about 10 races in every year. Now I still watched because I love the sport, but this gives an added dimension of hope or something to root for. I mea a guy could be having a rough year maybe 20th in points and win the 26th race and get in. Now more than likely that guy isnt going to suddenly become so consistent that he advances and wins it all, but it provides optimism for those fans because a lot of fans tune out when their drivers hopes are dashed. Especially in the leans months when the NFL is starting up.
 
Where am I telling people to shut up? What I am simply stating is what slice was saying earlier. Try embracing the change because at the end of the day it is happening and you will be watching the product anyways. Unless people just like to be miserable, which if that is the case I cant understand.

Here...
Unless people are not going to watch the race then the complaining needs to stop. It becomes hypocritical the minute they tune in.
 
Im not sure about how much I like the idea of 16 either, but it does have a level of unpredictability associated with it. I think we can all agree that if a David Gilliland were to score a win and get into the chase that the odds of him advancing would be slim, but there is always that chance and people like an underdog story. If that were to happen it would definitely draw in ratings as the story began to pick up steam. I think thats where NASCAR has that idea.

I can see your point, but not everone is a Jeff Gordon fan thus having little to root or cheer for if their guy is out of contention mid way through the season. Myself being a Bobby Labonte fan had my optimism crushed about 10 races in every year. Now I still watched because I love the sport, but this gives an added dimension of hope or something to root for. I mea a guy could be having a rough year maybe 20th in points and win the 26th race and get in. Now more than likely that guy isnt going to suddenly become so consistent that he advances and wins it all, but it provides optimism for those fans because a lot of fans tune out when their drivers hopes are dashed. Especially in the leans months when the NFL is starting up.
I think it's safe to say all of the guys who consistently finish up front in the points are those attracting fans. Now there's no reason one of those like JJ, Edwards, Kenseth, Logano, Kez, Gordon, Biffle, Harvick, Stewart, Busch brothers, etc. should both not win in the regular season and not finish high enough in points to get in through that method. Most years it looks like it's going to come down to the Menard/Burton/Montoya type. Consider me a little underwhelmed.

Underdog stories are nice, but I can't imagine a Front Row Motorsports or Phoenix Racing driver bringing in additional viewers by the boatload towards the beginning of the Chase.
 
I think it's safe to say all of the guys who consistently finish up front in the points are those attracting fans. Now there's no reason one of those like JJ, Edwards, Kenseth, Logano, Kez, Gordon, Biffle, Harvick, Stewart, Busch brothers, etc. should both not win in the regular season and not finish high enough in points to get in through that method. Most years it looks like it's going to come down to the Menard/Burton/Montoya type. Consider me a little underwhelmed.

Underdog stories are nice, but I can't imagine a Front Row Motorsports or Phoenix Racing driver bringing in viewers by the boatload towards the beginning of the Chase.
Even still.. this leaves a chance for bad races with a rebound. One of those drivers can blow an engine in the first race and win one of the next two and advance. Before that was a one way ticket. Now a driver can finish 43rd at Talladega (or any of the first 2 of a round) and still have a chance to move on and win the cup, which will in turn keep their fans watching. Not that I would ever not watch a race, but I can see why people who aren't as big of fans as we are tuning into football when their driver is out.
 
I think it's safe to say all of the guys who consistently finish up front in the points are those attracting fans. Now there's no reason one of those like JJ, Edwards, Kenseth, Logano, Kez, Gordon, Biffle, Harvick, Stewart, Busch brothers, etc. should both not win in the regular season and not finish high enough in points to get in through that method. Most years it looks like it's going to come down to the Menard/Burton/Montoya type. Consider me a little underwhelmed.

Underdog stories are nice, but I can't imagine a Front Row Motorsports or Phoenix Racing driver bringing in viewers by the boatload towards the beginning of the Chase.


While it wont bring fans of those drivers it will attract the people on the outside. I dont think it will attract enough to really make a difference, but thats my opinion of the logic being used. Sportscenter shows coverage and the story begans to gain steam with the same people who get on board for olympic hockey even though they dont watch the sport. Again not enough to see a difference in my opinion, but the logic is there.
 
While it wont bring fans of those drivers it will attract the people on the outside. I dont think it will attract enough to really make a difference, but thats my opinion of the logic being used. Sportscenter shows coverage and the story begans to gain steam with the same people who get on board for olympic hockey even though they dont watch the sport. Again not enough to see a difference in my opinion, but the logic is there.
Sometimes people get confused when you say things like that. Just because we see the logic behind the reasoning means we agree with it apparently. :rolleyes: Remember the 5% and 10% thing?
 
I don't see where it says to shut up... just that the complaining needs to stop... :p Just sayin'

words do matter......what I was trying to state was that the complaining is all for naught when you tune in on raceday. Its just stupid and ineffective. Its like people who complain about the leaders of the country, but either dont vote or dont educate themselves enough to make an educated opinion on something.
 
I don't see where it says to shut up... just that the complaining needs to stop... :p Just sayin'


I didn't say he told anyone to "shut up". Those are his words.

Telling people they need to stop complaining (posting their opinions) at a place where people are here to post their opinions (complain if they wish), seems odd to me.

just sayin'.
 
While it wont bring fans of those drivers it will attract the people on the outside. I dont think it will attract enough to really make a difference, but thats my opinion of the logic being used. Sportscenter shows coverage and the story begans to gain steam with the same people who get on board for olympic hockey even though they dont watch the sport. Again not enough to see a difference in my opinion, but the logic is there.
Gotcha.

This is NASCAR brass we are talking about after all. Who knows how their thought process works?
 
I didn't say he told anyone to "shut up". Those are his words.

Telling people they need to stop complaining (posting their opinions) at a place where people are here to post there opinions (complain if they wish), seem odd to me.

just sayin'.
Actually they were FenderBumpers... I agree... I had my issues earlier but like the points system itself.. I can't change your opinions so I might as well accept it and not let it bug me :D lol
 
Sometimes people get confused when you say things like that. Just because we see the logic behind the reasoning means we agree with it apparently. :rolleyes: Remember the 5% and 10% thing?

I guess from a busines perspective it makes sense to me. At the end of the day Nascar fans are going to tune in so Nascar doesnt concern themselves with them. Its not like they arent going to make money. It would be a different story if that goup was a small amount, but if Nascar loses 1 million viewers I think the are willing to risk it
 
You could better accomplish that with no Chase, since there are 35 more races to make up for it. :)
So you're only giving room to wreck in the 500?

I thought we were past "no chase" discussion? LOL.... Regardless.... name a driver that was 10th-12th in points and blew up with 10 races to go and won the championship. :p
 
Is it arrogant of Nascar to think they can make changes without recourse or regard for their current fans? Sure, but at the end of the day most of us tune in so why should they care?
 
It's not exactly a revelation that nascar doesn't care what the fans think.
 
Good luck to nascar on seeing that actually happen. :)


Its not about it actually happening. Its the logic and the possibility that it could. Its an idea and it was sold to someone. There is no risk for NASCAR. Its not like the viewership is going to suddenly dip to unprecedented lows.........hence the logic behing the 10% and 5%. Nascar most like wont even see a dip in the ratings let alone lose 5% of the fanbase, but the reward outweighs the risk
 
I really do think that (even if they're failing) they're really just trying to make the sport more exciting.... for us.


Wrong. nascar is trying to make it more exciting for the people that aren't fans.

If they did it for me they me they wasted their time.
 
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