2021 Silly Season

jaqua19 said:
Carl Edwards didn't sit in a race car until he was 15. No younger than Byron. He got his ride because of a business card.

Carl was simply a superior talent to William, experience aside.

I just feel the path to cup is different these days. Tony Stewart, Gordon, Jimmie Johnson all won championships in other series. Elliot, Blaney, Jones, Bell, what did they do before coming up through the NASCAR ranks?

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Honestly I never followed Eliott, Blaney, etc that much before they moved up, like I did some of those guys back in the day (I was a Dale Jr fan for YEARS before he moved up to cup), so I'm not sure.
And Carl Edwards is a great example, but also kind of a rarity given how talented he was. In my opinion by far the best driver to never win a championship, and if he didn't retire so suddenly he likely would have won one. The only guy close is Mark Martin.



Also as far as the 21 drama, I kind of wonder if perhaps the fact that he nearly won this Sunday has some in the organization reconsidering letting Matt D go?

I wonder if there is/was ever there possibility of them expanding to two cars?
 
jaqua19 said:
Also side note. Drama with the 21 guys. Moody is reporting "personal issues surrounding the 21 that puts them in a precarious position".

Tug of ware between Matt and Cindric, imo


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thats a tough spot just on paper, obviously Matty has a TON of support, but then Cindric is doing all the right things for his position.

i like the idea of Cindric in the 21, but who knows how it will unfold...
 
StandOnIt said:
The ol see, I'm a senior employee having to hit the road after starting a family to gets to go back to being home every night.
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Actually he said today that he'll still be going to most of the races since he'll be working directly with all four crew chiefs. But it also sounded as if the new duties will allow him more family time overall.
 
jaqua19 said:
I've said this, I attribute the lack off success to the talent pool from 1999-2005.

Stewart Gordon and Johnson weren't exceptions.

From 1999-2006 you had Tony Stewart, Dale Jr, Matt Kenseth, Kurt Busch, Kevin Harvick, Ryan Newman, Jimmie Johnson, Greg Biffle, Kasey Kahne, Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin all basically had rookie seasons superior to Chase Elliot's peak season in year 5.

Drivers back then came in a year or two older, and imo, were just more talented than the young crop of drivers today.

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I'm not totally disagreeing with your line of thought, but keep in mind that in the case of nearly all of the above names listed joined Cup teams at the top of their game, who either had just or very soon would score a championship, or in Harvick's case, had just missed one. Elliott, Bowman and Byron joined a Hendrick Motorsports team that clearly has NOT been at the top of their game for some time. Blaney, Bell and Larson also joined teams that were not serious championship threats. There are exceptions to most every rule, but I think when assessing the success or lack of success with a young driver, the team deserves as much scrutiny as the driver does.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not totally disagreeing with your line of thought, but keep in mind that in the case of nearly all of the above names listed joined Cup teams at the top of their game, who either had just or very soon would score a championship, or in Harvick's case, had just missed one. Elliott, Bowman and Byron joined a Hendrick Motorsports team that clearly has NOT been at the top of their game for some time. Blaney, Bell and Larson also joined teams that were not serious championship threats. There are exceptions to most every rule, but I think when assessing the success or lack of success with a young driver, the team deserves as much scrutiny as the driver does.
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Bingo. Put prime Gordon in the 24 now and he would struggle to finish top 5 in points
 
JGR_20 said:
thats a tough spot just on paper, obviously Matty has a TON of support, but then Cindric is doing all the right things for his position.

i like the idea of Cindric in the 21, but who knows how it will unfold...
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Cindric to the 21. Matt D to the 43. That's what I'd like to see.
 
Snappy D said:
Does Prime Gordon come with Prime Ray though? If both come, I think the equation changes there.
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It slightly changes but I still don't think they would be championship material, attrition and fluke scenarios aside
 
jaqua19 said:
I've said this, I attribute the lack off success to the talent pool from 1999-2005.

Stewart Gordon and Johnson weren't exceptions.

From 1999-2006 you had Tony Stewart, Dale Jr, Matt Kenseth, Kurt Busch, Kevin Harvick, Ryan Newman, Jimmie Johnson, Greg Biffle, Kasey Kahne, Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin all basically had rookie seasons superior to Chase Elliot's peak season in year 5.

Drivers back then came in a year or two older, and imo, were just more talented than the young crop of drivers today.

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Statistically, there's no argument to be made against you there. In a vacuum, you're correct. I think if you look at it rationally and take some of the bias/hate out (we get it, you loathe Chase), that crop was also a product of the Gen 4 car and the racing back then. The Cup car then was far more in line with how the Busch/Nationwide/Xfinity cars drove, so there was more consistency on the way up. It was also a time where you could *gasp* pass, and setups mattered more. It was the perfect storm of a great crop of talent, more competitive teams, and the aero wars with lowered HP hadn't completely taken over.
 
jaqua19 said:
I've said this, I attribute the lack off success to the talent pool from 1999-2005.

Stewart Gordon and Johnson weren't exceptions.

From 1999-2006 you had Tony Stewart, Dale Jr, Matt Kenseth, Kurt Busch, Kevin Harvick, Ryan Newman, Jimmie Johnson, Greg Biffle, Kasey Kahne, Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin all basically had rookie seasons superior to Chase Elliot's peak season in year 5.

Drivers back then came in a year or two older, and imo, were just more talented than the young crop of drivers today.

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You really are only as good as the people you race against. Those guys did have some stiff competition against each other. BUT, teams today seem to be after those they can pay less and so they are going after younger drivers who are not in a position to demand a lot. When would an iracing driver qualify as a cup driver??
 
I know they’re not going to make a decision on a whim based off a new schedule, but doubling up on road courses is stonks for Cindric - especially when he’s raced at all of them and there may or may not be practice next season. Matt is a good course road driver himself, but I think Austin has a better shot at picking up victories and making some noise at his top tracks.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
I know they’re not going to make a decision on a whim based off a new schedule, but doubling up on road courses is stonks for Cindric - especially when he’s raced at all of them and there may or may not be practice next season. Matt is a good course driver himself, but I think Austin has a better shot at picking up victories and making some noise at his top tracks.
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Matt has been a victim of bad timing IMO. He's done well for LFR and WBR, but the timing and one year deals are tough man.

He's proven himself to be a quality driver as well, someone will pick him up and hopefully keep him around for more than a season. Just tough business altogether. He should land on his feet somewhere, but without any sponsors behind him... It might be tough.
 
Kiante said:
This isn't good:


With the addition of all of these road courses and as good as Matt D is at them... Cindric might just get the nod in this case, this sucks to see entirely. However, Penske will make a decision soon.
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It's unfortunate. Paul Menard's wishes on his successor only carry so far. The larger organization will get on with their plans. Seems unfair to the Burrito man, but even one year in the #21 was a better showcase than he would have gotten otherwise.
 
Agreed about the timing for Matty

i felt that way for a moment now... any other time, he would probably wheel that 21 for at least a couple years... but everyone saw Cindric coming down the line. It sucks, but I dont think its a complete surprise that this scenario came up.

I think Matty will land something good. I mean at least he’s not being pushed aside based on lackluster performance...
 
JGR_20 said:
thats a tough spot just on paper, obviously Matty has a TON of support, but then Cindric is doing all the right things for his position.

i like the idea of Cindric in the 21, but who knows how it will unfold...
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I like Cindric too. He deserves a cup ride at this point.

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Dr_B_UNC said:
Statistically, there's no argument to be made against you there. In a vacuum, you're correct. I think if you look at it rationally and take some of the bias/hate out (we get it, you loathe Chase), that crop was also a product of the Gen 4 car and the racing back then. The Cup car then was far more in line with how the Busch/Nationwide/Xfinity cars drove, so there was more consistency on the way up. It was also a time where you could *gasp* pass, and setups mattered more. It was the perfect storm of a great crop of talent, more competitive teams, and the aero wars with lowered HP hadn't completely taken over.
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I agree. No hate here. Only Carl, Jimmie Tony and Denny had superior rookie seasons to year 5 Chase. Chase is just the measuring stick because he's the only young driver showing superstar potential imo

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JGR_20 said:
Agreed about the timing for Matty

i felt that way for a moment now... any other time, he would probably wheel that 21 for at least a couple years... but everyone saw Cindric coming down the line. It sucks, but I dont think its a complete surprise that this scenario came up.

I think Matty will land something good. I mean at least he’s not being pushed aside based on lackluster performance...
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Yeah I don't know. The 21 is Penske affiliated, Ryan Blaney had success in that car and he isn't necessarily in elite cup driver yet either. I can't imagine Maddie D running any better in any other car than he did this year. I'm not sure where he will land, But I would be surprised if it's a ride as competitive as the 21. Where else could he go? He'll probably end up in the 43

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Jenna Fryer posting what she believes to be happening but hasn't been announced.
Jones to the 37
Briscoe to the 14
Larson to Hendrick (number TBD)
Preece to FRM
Haley to Spire
 
Yep. I hope he's learned. I was not a fan of his attitude even before he said the slur. If he isn't the Larson of old I'll be alright with it but I'm not counting that chicken before it hatches. And don't get me wrong I like redemption stories, I'm just not willing to jump ahead in them.

If he gets his stuff together and has an Andre Agassi-esque second wind to his career then I'm all for it. However in the moment it does suck seeing the 48 get inherited by someone I can't proudly root for. Jimmie is an overachiever in life, Larson so far has been a disappointment. Not irredeemable though.
 
LJ7201 said:
Yep. I hope he's learned. I was not a fan of his attitude even before he said the slur. If he isn't the Larson of old I'll be alright with it but I'm not counting that chicken before it hatches. And don't get me wrong I like redemption stories, I'm just not willing to jump ahead in them.

If he gets his stuff together and has an Andre Agassi-esque second wind to his career then I'm all for it. However in the moment it does suck seeing the 48 get inherited by someone I can't proudly root for. Jimmie is an overachiever in life, Larson so far has been a disappointment. Not irredeemable though.
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I've never noticed Larson having an attitude. Guy literally went out of his way to let MTJ / Busch duke it out at Miami.
 
beantownkid10 said:


Jenna Fryer posting what she believes to be happening but hasn't been announced.
Jones to the 37
Briscoe to the 14
Larson to Hendrick (number TBD)
Preece to FRM
Haley to Spire
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That's awesome that Spire is making a step up. Reddit rumors of Brandon Jones moving up to the 96?
 
aunty dive said:
I think if Jones and Matt D got together, they could carry Larson's helmet bag.

But not very far.
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Kyle Busch is more talented than all three of them put together, and I couldn't wait for him to get shown the door at HMS. Fandom for me has a LOT more components than just winning a race now and then.
 
kkfan91 said:
Oh boy the last thing Brandon Jones needs is to hop in a bad Cup car.
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Brandon has been running well this year & he also has plenty of that Rheem money to make it into a top 25 team.. even still, NASCAR needs cautions to make things interesting sometimes. Lol.
 
I'm sorry, Ganassi bought the majority of SABCO in 2001 then turned into Chip Ganassi Racing with Felix Sabates. So in 19 years, Larson won six times out of eight races won in the 42.

Montoya won the other two races.
 
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I think Rheem would do well for GBR. For how much they’ve had to ratchet up this year Suarez has done alright in that car. If they keep the funding up they might be able to build upon a decent first full season.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I think Rheem would do well for GBR. For how much they’ve had to ratchet up this year Suarez has done alright in that car. If they keep the funding up they might be able to build upon a decent first full season.
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Suarez has done a great job IMO, outside of the DNQ at Daytona and the wreck at the August Daytona race, he has kept that car clean.

Averaging about a 26th place finish with a part time team doing a full schedule. Rheem/Ruud money would help, but they would have the same problem in finding a method of filling more races. Hopefully, Gaunt can continue building the program with the experience gained.
 
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