Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by StandOnIt, Feb 19, 2019.
Maybe the single lug is a cheaper set-up in the long run? Return on investment, and all that.
one of the reasons I have thought single lug is being discussed is that the chassis manufacturer is set up for that and it was easier and cheaper to go that way. But it doesn't seem logical for Nascar to take that part away from their traditional pit stop?
Often enough to require large inventories of those items among the teams. Add the complication factor inherent with use of 3 or 4 different brake packages, each of which uses different rotors.
I'll step out on the limb ... the only pieces to be replaced will be the wheels. The 18" five-lug steel wheels.
I don't think the cost of lug nuts factors in.
Really? Did something change in the last 3 weeks? Have not been to England since then, but every person, at every pub, talked in miles, feet, and inches....only when in a formal setting did we have to revert to the system our dollar is based on.
As far as the military, I was fortunate enough to be in the second last draft...the only thing we metered was the beatings we put on people that did not want to be American. Yards son...just yards....point blank was 250 yards...period
I wasn't including just the lug nuts. Sorry if I didn't make it clear that I was talking about everything at the end of the axle.
Just think of all the huge savings teams would get without the lug nut penalties.
I knew that.
Center-lock front hubs would be more expensive because machining costs. I will guess that brake rotors would cost about the same.
I've never seen a center-lock steel wheel. Alloy center-lock wheels would cost about 4 times as much as a steelie. And there's the current value of the literally hundreds of no longer-usable parts on the cars and in inventory so, no ... I think it would be far more expensive than simply changing to 18" five luggers.
A tad encouraging.
Though for those who love the current package over previous ones, there wouldn't be concerns to alleviate. There is some interesting feedback in there from Hamlin on what nearly everyone agrees on: the current high downforce effects have harmed short track and road course racing.
Matt Weaver article of course. Glad he is optimistic of the work in progress for his followers. Here is an article about the same thing that isn't so biased
@StandOnIt... what exactly are the biases in Weaver's article. I mean, I read both articles... Weaver and Crandall... and I didn't really see any disagreement between the two that I can recall.
The first topic sentence set the tone for the whole article. It tells ya who the article is written for. It's no secret that Weaver has been slamming the car since before it hit the track this year. That's his choice and some of what he says I agree with, but his article is riddled with holes and opinions that not everybody agrees with. Topic sentence below:
"For skepics of NASCAR’s current direction, Austin Dillon is here to deliver good news about the Cup Series’ next-generation race car."
Article from almost 6 months ago about electrical assist and how to keep the sounds and V8's instead of pissed off vacuum cleaners and more in the article. Notice it is published on Nascar's web site. there's your first clue.
It’s time: The NASCAR hybrid
HYBRIDS DONE RIGHT
Back in March, I was at a fan event before the Las Vegas race and noticed that there were a lot of international fans in attendance. I wound up talking to people from Germany, Ireland and Australia — where, incidentally, the Formula 1 race season was about to begin. I asked them why they were in Vegas instead of back home, heading to the Formula 1 race.
“We don’t go to F1 races any more. We don’t like the cars,” they explained. “They don’t sound right. They’ve switched from big engines to small engines, and that made the cars too quiet. They sound like vacuum cleaners.”
That’s one of the factors of the kinetic energy recovery system — called KERS — that’s used by Formula 1 vehicles. KERS takes the energy from braking, charges it into a battery pack, and then returns it to the cars when they need extra power. The idea behind it was to reduce costs, but going to a smaller engine was a big mistake.
Race cars that don’t sound like race cars aren’t acceptable. If that’s going to be the cost of hybrid vehicles, a lot of NASCAR fans will want to throw up, and rightly so. Our fan base associates stock cars with a throaty V-8 engine, and so do I. That shouldn’t change. If we switch to a four-cylinder or V-6 in NASCAR, we’re going to lose a lot of fans.
But having a KERS system similar to F1 — that can recover energy and use it as needed — is the perfect foundation for the NASCAR V-8 hybrid stock car. The way I envision it, we’d be creating one of the best engines in the world, and it would keep the roar that NASCAR fans love.
"Race cars that don’t sound like race cars aren’t acceptable. If that’s going to be the cost of hybrid vehicles, a lot of NASCAR fans will want to throw up, and rightly so. Our fan base associates stock cars with a throaty V-8 engine, and so do I. That shouldn’t change. If we switch to a four-cylinder or V-6 in NASCAR, we’re going to lose a lot of fans."
I am really glad that Brad realizes this. I hope I hope I hope I hope that the NASCAR Big Wigs at the helm do too.
"Let’s say a yellow comes out. According to our new parameters, all cars would switch to electric in their hybrid engines in order to save precious fuel. In that moment, the field would go silent, and wouldn’t be burning gas anymore. This would be great for our fans because it would bring down the wall of useless noise for a few minutes while we’re under caution."
This would be enough of a change to the at track experience, when combined with single lug nut, and whatever else.
From what I understand, GM isn't even interested in hybrid race technology, so all of the push must be coming from the other two manufacturers. They said recently that they weren't even particularly interested in hybrid technology for the next generation IMSA prototype, and if the new rules package required them to spend a huge amount of money on hybrid technology, they would likely be out.
Nascar missed the boat when Toyota came in. THAT was the time to change the engine format. DOHC V-6 and Turbo 4 cylinders should have been implemented. Use BOP like IMSA to even things out. Dump the stupid truck arms and huge coil springs. Drop the car weight down to 2500ish pounds. You know...like REAL race cars. They've drug this out waaaay too long.
A V8 hybrid sounds like the dumbest thing ever. Lol do a V6 hybrid with an Atkinson Cycle and you’d be fine
Changing the engine Format would be the dumbest thing NASCAR could do.
NASCAR is defined by the V8 engines. When I visited my first race at Pocono two years ago, it was awesome to hear 40 screaming V8s coming by with the grandstand vibrating underneath me
A BOP would probably cause controversy every week
For those who desperately want to see cars that are "more stock", there are countless TCR championships around the world. But just like Super Touring Cars and WTCC, TCR is gonna remain a niche product because the cars aren't spectacular enough.
Meh, I don't care about the engine rules and going about with hybrid power. Its to keep the OEMs around to keep interest up. NASCAR isn't exactly known for evolving at a fast rate either. Just remember about five years ago fuel injection was introduced getting rid of carburated engines at the highest level.
This is nothing shocking for North American motorsports to be "behind the times". Look at NASCAR and IndyCar preparing to change, its not the end of the world, but to those who are afraid of change? Why are NASCAR fans afraid of change so much? Nothing stays the same forever, NASCAR has to get with the times or get left behind entirely.
That's pretty much what i meant in the post that got removed. People need to move on. I put the race on TV with it muted then spend the time messing around on laptop. Nascar just has lost my interest. I much prefer any type of road racing now. Or NHRA. I still say Nascar missed it's window. Should have done a complete overhaul of the sport shortly after the plates had to be used at super speedways. Too many minuscule changes since. Boring.
Rule changes are not going to resonate with everyone, but I'll continue to watch because I enjoy this sport still and honestly nothing will probably deter me.
That's just my opinion, I respect your viewpoint as well. If it doesn't align for you, there are plenty of forms of motorsports to get into.
What's an Atkinson cycle? Is that 'Murican or a rice burner?
NASCAR is defined by what the manufacturers want to spotlight. One reason to abandon the V8 is to make it easier for other manufacturers to enter. One day the current crop may decide they no longer want to compete in a series that doesn't translate to their consumer product.
Sure. But there are no marketing opportunities when no one watches so I hope the manufacturers are reasonable enough not to go that route.
A lot to unpack in here.
About the timeline:
About the car itself:
Reading between the lines it sounds like a major team is on the verge of going under and needs the Gen 7 cost reductions to make it sooner rather than later. I doubt it's JGR since TRD seems to be pushing back on the timeline. Penske just dumped a ton of money on Indycar so Roger clearly isn't hurting for $$$. My guess is SHR or HMS. Losing either would be devastating.
Also sounds like the car will be symmetrical. Yay for less sideforce
Campbell saying the car "Looks symmetrical" really gives me positive vibes about the new car.
Also, all the likes of Rushbrook, Wilson, and Campbell are all mimicking one another in terms of NASCAR being able to get the chassis ready for 2021. They all seem very bullish about it all and the possibilities that will come along with it. Also, Toyota already had a new chassis in the wind-tunnel, so that's interesting to hear.
JGR possibly placing a bid to build the chassis would be interesting. I guess it could lead to chassis engineers keeping jobs within the NASCAR industry, I can appreciate that. Not to mention, like GMS fabrication in the truck series, it leads to another area in which Joe Gibbs can make a profit off of the deal.
Its a lot to digest, but how everyone sounds about the new car, its starting to sound better and better as time progresses.
I am not concerned about any 1 group getting the contract and maybe they should consider a new company which could be a combination of the big teams. This would also be beneficial in making sure the best employees currently engaged in the business to keep their jobs. No matter what they decide, there are going to be many layoffs which is the purpose of the new car.
I think this new system will ensure that all teams have the same starting point when bringing a car to the track. These cars can be made available for about $150,000 which should allow for new manufacturers to join and should keep the car count at 40. I prefer this number was dropped to 32 however in the new car maybe the S&P cars will be fewer.
I am also going to go out on a limb and suggest that with the newer cars and all the safety devices, the driver pay is going to drop substantially and many drivers will take an early retirement.
With all the spec parts & pieces...maybe it's time to lift the 4 car per team limit? The more the merrier I say.
If your going to move in that direction then maybe 36 cars on short tracks, 40 cars on 1.5 mile and unlimited on anything bigger. Remeasure the tracks along the outside wall for classification.
I do like the potential future electrification of the sport. While I love the roar of the engines, we’re really only 4-5 years from a huge change in cars. I honestly believe that most of us (unless buying a truck) have 1-2 car purchases left in our lives of an internal combustion engine.
Trust me I’ve seen CAD designs for cars in the late 2020s
I think its possibly one of the worst ideas you could have to have one of the teams competing in the sport produce a spec chassis. You realize you're just funneling more money into that team to allow them to get further ahead of the competition?
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It's no different than HMS building engines for all the chevy teams, or Roush Yates building all the Ford engines for teams. Thankfully there's gonna be a spending cap so that extra revenue stream shouldn't translate into more speed directly.
Yeah but the sanctioning body is not requiring teams to buy engines from said suppliers, teams still have options. Now they're saying you need to run this and you need to buy it from them. IMO 2 completely different things
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Agreed, if a team can find sponsorship for 5 or 6 cars they should be aloud to.
When did they say anything about a spending cap? All I've seen about it is they'll wait and see how it works in F1. Stupid idea either way.
If anything I think it should go the opposite way. Why allow a monopoly of cars for one team? I thought the whole point of lowering costs and standard parts was to make it easier for new owners?
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