'21 Generation 7 Car news

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by StandOnIt, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Simple Fan

    Simple Fan First or Last

    No.
     
  2. DanicaFreak

    DanicaFreak Green monster

    A spec chassis may allow more manufactures in,...
     
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  3. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Team Owner

    You actually think a spending cap would work. In a sport that is mostly parts and pieces with team owners owning several businesses it will never work. For example say RCR purchases engines from ECR and nascar says you cant spend more than 3 million a year on engines. Well ok ECR could spend 8 million a year developing, testing and producing engines but only charge RCR 2.5 million for the engines and wow look we didn't exceed our budget. Same thing with every other person on the team you could be limited to a salary that the race team pays them, but they could be paid to be a consultant for another business for the race team owner. IMO it will just never work for racing.

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  4. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I get your point, but for an FYI Nascar is forcing them to reduce costs from the top down by restricting how many engines they can use in a season. The same model can be used for other parts and pieces. It's a forced cost reduction instead of a voluntary one. Teams spend all kinds of money on streamlined front end suspension parts, braking systems, front spindles,different ones for every track, super light drive shafts, most of it is very expensive for just a tic or two of overall speed. Average racing fan in the stands could care less. As soon as a new part is built, engineers are hard at work trying to make the next one better. Standardized parts are a type of spending cap and the average fan won't know the difference on the track.
     
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  5. Dr_B_UNC

    Dr_B_UNC Team Owner

    This. If we're going spec on many critical areas, it needs to be provided by a neutral third party, if nothing else then just for appearance's sake.
     
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  6. DanicaFreak

    DanicaFreak Green monster

  7. DewChaser988

    DewChaser988 NASCAR fan since 1998

    With the news about NASCAR considering street courses coming out and also the fact that NASCAR took notes from the V8 Supercars with the Gen 7 car. I wonder if the Gen 7 car was designed using principles from the original L-R car, which was designed for street courses, and was designed to have the manuverability needed to produce good quality races at the street courses.
     
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  8. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    IRS turned the Gen 7 into a world class road race car. Rumor is that the rear tires are two inches wider than they are now. Supercars run a 5 liter engine which might be similar. Supercars run a big honking set of wings on the rear which I doubt Nascar would use for safety reasons. I think they are similar now FWIW. Supercars are more of a road race design because that is all they race on. Nascar will have to make compromises to run both styles I would guess. I wonder how much lighter they will be with composite body work or will Nascar add more weight to make up the difference
     
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  9. DewChaser988

    DewChaser988 NASCAR fan since 1998

    I'm sure Dallara will be able to figure it out. They manage to do both ovals and road courses for Indycar just fine
     
  10. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    nothing in stone about Dallara, it sounds like they are taking bids on a lot of it. JGR is rumored to be one of the chassis builders bidding for the job.
     
  11. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Team Owner

    What I would really like to see with this new car is 3 things

    1) if they do a common chassis it's made by a independent 3rd party

    2) a car that looks symmetrical left to right and isn't all twisted

    3) a car that goes down the track straight. When a car is coming directly towards you you shouldn't be able to read the right rear quarter panel

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  12. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    There was one design element from the X-3 prototype that I was interested in. It was the opening in front of the car that would allow air under the car so that the car couldn't be sealed to the track. I wonder why that design element didn't make it into the Gen 7 cars.
     
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  13. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    I agree 100%. As far as I'm concerned, NASCAR made a HUGE mistake when they started to allow asymmetrical cars, and I could never figure WHY they would allow it. Even more than the CoT, mid 2000's versions were the stupidest looking cars to ever run NASCAR races.
     
  14. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I agree. I'll go even farther and say that a disinterested 3rd party should make all of the standardized parts with no OEM influences. Number two and three happened during Brian's reign. I continually wonder where or what direction Jim France is going in regards to the next version of the car. It's his baby. I like a lot of what I hear, but will it make the final cut.
     
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  15. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    yeah me too. That was the era of pretty unrestricted aero improvements and very aero dependent cars. But like everything else, there were people who liked that form of racing, probably most were Gordon/Evernham fans
     
  16. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Racing-forum dot com
    [​IMG]
     
  17. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    As long as you can race the electric cars on dirt tracks, I'm fine with it.
     
  18. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    I find it hard to believe they can buy a chassis cheaper than build one. Just like the COT had to be certified seems to me Nascar could just release a chassis build sheet/blueprint and the team build to spec. The teams already have the workers and equipment. How is moving the build and repair of chassis outside going to actually save money? If a current Nascar team is going to build ALL the Chassis going to need quite an assembly line. I suppose it may be a lateral move for workers...
     
  19. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Team Owner

    It's cheaper because your taking away their ability to spend money on doing R&D on the chassis. The problem with the current one is there's certain defined points, but there's a lot that can be done between said points

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  20. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I suspect that pretty exotic metallurgy is involved also. Certain mixes of steel can bend and flex at certain rates depending on the forces involved. Things like spindles, trailing arms, rear end housings etc.could all benefit to increase handling. Buku engineering money could be spent on that sort of thing to gain fractions of a second.
     
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  21. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Ask Henry Ford about that.
     
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  22. DewChaser988

    DewChaser988 NASCAR fan since 1998

    Except JGR is a massive conflict of interest
     
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  23. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    agreed. I would trust them about as far as I could threw them.
     
  24. jws926

    jws926 I need to think of something new for here

    I agree that it would a conflict of interest, the one way to get around that is that every chassis goes to NASCAR , and the teams get them from NASCAR, including JGR.
     
  25. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    One blueprint. Just like Dalara or whomever you want to choose. I don't include ANY bolt on parts Minus maybe body mounts as "chassis". Here is a bare chassis. Let the team build their chassis but must purchase all suspension brakes, etc from a vendor. Nascar would approve X vendor product. [​IMG]
     
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  26. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    The chassis is steel? Hard to spend too much extra on exotic steel that they couldn't test for. Suspension, brakes, etc would be purchased from outside source would have to match XXX spec. Spec is spec. You fail spec you get a DNF. No points. No money. Make it hurt for "cheating".
     
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  27. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    This series is great for those that have never been involved in building any of this stuff.

     
  28. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

  29. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    I'm certain someone will come in screaming THAT'S NOT A NASCAR!!! Obviously. The point is to see how the design and work has to go together. Unless they go the direction of IndyCar with a "tub" then exotic metals shouldn't be a concern. I'm assuming the chassis will resemble this car.
     
  30. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I was talking about today's car. It is possible to engineer steel that can stretch under loads and return to spec. Very handy to get a touch more rear camber or a trailing arm that can deflect for a bit more rear steer. I don't know how close they check that kinda of stuff now but a vendor built chassis would eliminate that if it is happening
     
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  31. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    More legislation.

    That’s the answer.
     
  32. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    They've tried letting the teams self regulate. They going broke. Somebody has to save them from themselves. Call it an intervention.
     
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  33. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Team Owner

    I think you're forgetting the group you're dealing with in the nascar garage. For example even a blue print has a tolerance on every dimension. I guarantee you teams will be going through every one of those dimensions and test to see on which side of the tolerance is better. It's no different than what's going on with the bodies right now. Teams are pushing the tolerance to the max for performance gains.

    Remember this is the same group of people that were cutting slits in the wraps and figuring out the ideal spot for the Jackman to accidentally "bump" into the car

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  34. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    Don't forget about the flared out skirt.
     
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  35. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Team Owner

    I forgot about that one. How to properly enter the banking of the track to bend that out exiting pit road.

    The other one I loved was how much to swerve the car right at the end of a race to reset the rear end of the car

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  36. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    Yep, it doesn't matter how "spec" you make the cars, the teams will always find a loophole or a gray area to play in. Which is what my dad did when my brother was racing go-karts. Before the start of each season, my dad would go over the rule book and see what he could get away with.
     
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  37. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    So I guess any rules are a waste of time. Cause they gonna cheat anyway.
     
  38. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    The chassis has to go thru the R&D center now. They will inspect them and I assume mark the suspension mounting points to watch for modification. I completely discount some previous suggestions about 'flexible chassis" tubing being used. That works on dirt but not so much on asphalt for 4-500 miles races when the car has to be raced again.
     
  39. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    I'm just saying, never underestimate human ingenuity. A team will always find a way to cheat to gain that edge over the competition. Even when they started laser scanning the chassis, teams were experimenting with what colors to use on the wrap because the prevailing theory at the time was that the scanner couldn't read black paint.
     
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  40. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    We have a fundamental difference on what we call chassis. They inspect the CHASSIS at the R&D center BEFORE the body is hung. But...whatever. Do you think IndyCar teams are modifying the tubs (chassis) to gain speed? My assumption is that would be akin to soaking tires or engine mods to cheat the displacement. You do that; YOU OUT!
     

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