'21 Generation 7 Car news

cheesepuffs

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No, they don't. Most people can hold their breath for 30 or 40 seconds without difficulty. It wouldn't take that long to get out of a burning car.
The drivers are already in a state of elevated heart rate and need oxygen more than we do while just typing these responses. They can't just hold their breath that easily as their in the car like that.
 

aunty dive

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I wish they’d hurry up and fix the whole wheels falling off thing. That’s annoying.

Also parts supply chain.
 

FLRacingFan

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Damn, so all that ranting and raving Harvick did. Along with Childers... All to find out they were wrong.

Anyways, moving on.
I’d be heated if I lost because of something that’s outside of my control…Austin Hill with the NT1 engine at Martinsville after winning the regular season a few years ago, see it all the time in F2 with the spec garbage Mecachrome engine too.

At the very least he was right about the fire intruding the ****pit, which was a badly-needed safety fix.
 

Kiante

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I’d be heated if I lost because of something that’s outside of my control…Austin Hill with the NT1 engine at Martinsville after winning the regular season a few years ago, see it all the time in F2 with the spec garbage Mecachrome engine too.

At the very least he was right about the fire intruding the ****pit, which was a badly-needed safety fix.
Absolutely, I understand their fustration. Just I think the fustration and twitter fingers really clouded their judgement. Love me some ol' Wile E. Childers and Harvick, just sometimes the outbursts can be a bit too premature at times.
 

FLRacingFan

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Absolutely, I understand their fustration. Just I think the fustration and twitter fingers really clouded their judgement. Love me some ol' Wile E. Childers and Harvick, just sometimes the outbursts can be a bit too premature at times.
It fired up Harv enough to open up on Twitter for real finally which is good enough for me, rather than the usual PR-crafted tweets.
 

wi_racefan

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Was really surprised to hear how open Noah was this week ok DBC about how hard the hits have been. Claims he wouldn't have signed up for any cup races during the Xfinity playoffs this fall had he of know how hard the hits were going to be.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

aunty dive

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It’s a rough business.

Happily, only 1 person has suffered a lost time injury.
 

Formerjackman

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Was really surprised to hear how open Noah was this week ok DBC about how hard the hits have been. Claims he wouldn't have signed up for any cup races during the Xfinity playoffs this fall had he of know how hard the hits were going to be.

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One would have thought that NASCAR could have leveraged the assets of the three car manufacturers in the sport, who have a couple hundred years of combined crash testing knowledge to get better data that might have prevented some of this. Bubba said just a car sliding down the banking and running it his stopped car knocked the wind out of him. Sorry, but in the 21st century, I expect better.
 

KTMLew01

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One would have thought that NASCAR could have leveraged the assets of the three car manufacturers in the sport, who have a couple hundred years of combined crash testing knowledge to get better data that might have prevented some of this. Bubba said just a car sliding down the banking and running it his stopped car knocked the wind out of him. Sorry, but in the 21st century, I expect better.
Nothing to see here.gif
 

aunty dive

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In the past, teams often replaced front and / or rear clips after a heavy crash.

I wonder how many Next Gen clips have been changed out since the beginning of the season? NASCAR knows the exact number.
 

KTMLew01

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In the past, teams often replaced front and / or rear clips after a heavy crash.

I wonder how many Next Gen clips have been changed out since the beginning of the season? NASCAR knows the exact number.
I'm surprised they didn't attempt to fix the Harvick car. They have "uprights" assembled with a-arms. Much like the 60's Ford GT replaced whole assemblies instead of just the brakes. The control arms bolt flat against the clip. No tabs to break or bend. It's 8 bolts plus shock bolts and swaybar. Brake hoses should be quick connects.

Maybe they just don't have the "mechanics" on-site to do the work quickly?
 

KTMLew01

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Possibly the broken shock/control arms damaged the RH header on Harvick's car? I'll hit Rodney up for some answers. Worst case, he doesn't respond. Do it on Twitter so everyone gets to see.
 

Mispeedway15

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Was really surprised to hear how open Noah was this week ok DBC about how hard the hits have been. Claims he wouldn't have signed up for any cup races during the Xfinity playoffs this fall had he of know how hard the hits were going to be.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
I could be completely wrong but I wonder if any of it is due to the car being symmetrical. You used to have that nice yaw on it and if a car got turned around that right side would act like a damn parachute before impact.

Look at Kurt's wreck at Pocono, awkward angle as the whole back end stepped out and darted at the wall leading to a high whiplash effect on contact

1663180016266.png
 

acmerocket

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I'm surprised they didn't attempt to fix the Harvick car. They have "uprights" assembled with a-arms. Much like the 60's Ford GT replaced whole assemblies instead of just the brakes. The control arms bolt flat against the clip. No tabs to break or bend. It's 8 bolts plus shock bolts and swaybar. Brake hoses should be quick connects.

Maybe they just don't have the "mechanics" on-site to do the work quickly?
funny the main guy just sat there and looked at it for a long time.having it all ready would have helped, looks like they had all the parts, but something was not right, no practice?tools not ready?
 

KTMLew01

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funny the main guy just sat there and looked at it for a long time.having it all ready would have helped, looks like they had all the parts, but something was not right, no practice?tools not ready?
I asked Rodney. He usually will answer if/when he has time.
 

aunty dive

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In the past, teams often replaced front and / or rear clips after a heavy crash.

I wonder how many Next Gen clips have been changed out since the beginning of the season? NASCAR knows the exact number.
My question had to do with crash damage repairs made at the shop post-race ... not at the track and not about replacing bent or broken suspension components. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

In other words, are chassis clips deforming on impact as they have in the past or are they not? If they aren’t, that could be why people are complaining.

Just a thought.
 

KTMLew01

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My question had to do with crash damage repairs made at the shop post-race ... not at the track and not about replacing bent or broken suspension components. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

In other words, are chassis clips deforming on impact as they have in the past or are they not? If they aren’t, that could be why people are complaining.

Just a thought.
I understood your question. Which is basically what I asked Rodney. Was clip damaged or engine due to header being smashed? He's answered my questions before.

IMO, the aluminum wheel absorbs almost NO impact energy. The aluminum a-arms absorb almost no energy. They just break. Once the impact blows thru the a-arms, wheel gets displaced into the chassis. BIG spike. I don't believe anything NASCAR says about it. Lawyers gonna lawyer. Can't admit something is less than ideal for...reasons.

Yes, the supply chain issues ARE real. But how much effort would it take to engineer/build 3 front & rear clips with some crushability in them? Test them. I've NEVER seen a chassis that's built even close to similar to these. The clips can't bend up or down on impact. Too stiff. Center section (cage area) is even worse. It ain't giving AT ALL. Used to see the cars look like a dog taking a dump after a rear impact to the wall. And drive back to the pits after. Not anymore.
 

aunty dive

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In the complete absence of empirical data, you’ve reached a conclusion. No surprise.

I just thought a year over year comparison of clip replacements might tell us something.
 

KTMLew01

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In the complete absence of empirical data, you’ve reached a conclusion. No surprise.

I just thought a year over year comparison of clip replacements might tell us something.
I've used the data absorbed from 55+ years of breaking/repairing mechanical stuff. Plus dad was engineer. Worked for GM. I grew up reading Machinery's Handbook & that sort of stuff. Maybe I'm NOT as dumb as you think. Maybe I am. Why does it threaten you?

 

Spotter22

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I understood your question. Which is basically what I asked Rodney. Was clip damaged or engine due to header being smashed? He's answered my questions before.

IMO, the aluminum wheel absorbs almost NO impact energy. The aluminum a-arms absorb almost no energy. They just break. Once the impact blows thru the a-arms, wheel gets displaced into the chassis. BIG spike. I don't believe anything NASCAR says about it. Lawyers gonna lawyer. Can't admit something is less than ideal for...reasons.

Yes, the supply chain issues ARE real. But how much effort would it take to engineer/build 3 front & rear clips with some crushability in them? Test them. I've NEVER seen a chassis that's built even close to similar to these. The clips can't bend up or down on impact. Too stiff. Center section (cage area) is even worse. It ain't giving AT ALL. Used to see the cars look like a dog taking a dump after a rear impact to the wall. And drive back to the pits after. Not anymore.
Why do you assume the upper and lowers "break" and not bend? Aluminium is much more malleable then steel.
 

Spotter22

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did you see what came off the 24
Ive seen a lot of things over the years, not everything fits in to a tiny envelope. Cant remember who it was but a couple of races ago someone hit the wall and the aluminum lowers were bent backwards
 

aunty dive

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“The faster a car goes, the more motion energy it has. A race car going 200 mph has motion energy equivalent to a couple pounds of TNT. All of that motion energy must change into other types of energy when the car stops, whether that’s a pit stop or a hard hit against the wall.”

”When a car crashes, all that motion energy must transform much faster — sometimes in milliseconds. Heat, light and sound still play a part (the sound of crunching metal and squealing brakes), but these mechanisms can’t transform energy fast enough.

So other types of energy become involved, like crunching energy (deformation), spinning energy (rotational), and the energy it takes to move a SAFER barrier or another car.”

 

Formerjackman

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So you are telling me steel would have been better? Something thats over 200 times denser than aluminium?
No, I can't really answer that, but you were asking for an example of suspension parts braking instead of bending, and I gave you one. My hunch would be though that in a compression type of impact ( car hitting a wall or another car) that a part that bends would dissipate more energy by delaying impact forces ( say wheel against frame rail) than one that immediately snaps and allows the wheel to impact the frame sooner. Just a theory though, I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong. I will also say that it was my impression that in previous generation cars, the design of the front and rear clips was to completely sacrifice itself to save the center section and thus the driver's compartment. In an Indycar, they sacrifice the entire car to save the tub. I just don't see much sacrifice in the new car.
 

StandOnIt

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No, I can't really answer that, but you were asking for an example of suspension parts braking instead of bending, and I gave you one. My hunch would be though that in a compression type of impact ( car hitting a wall or another car) that a part that bends would dissipate more energy by delaying impact forces ( say wheel against frame rail) than one that immediately snaps and allows the wheel to impact the frame sooner. Just a theory though, I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong. I will also say that it was my impression that in previous generation cars, the design of the front and rear clips was to completely sacrifice itself to save the center section and thus the driver's compartment. In an Indycar, they sacrifice the entire car to save the tub. I just don't see much sacrifice in the new car.
1663215005888.png
 

KTMLew01

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I'll track down a copy and come back with an amended opinion in a couple of months.
My issue with some of this forums members is they refuse to even discuss the possibilities. "I/we" are not qualified to have an opinion. If you don't have PHD in metallurgy, you an idiot with a keyboard. It may surprise some that there ARE steps between those. Am I capable of designing a chassis by myself. Nope. Can't do the math. But much like the old, if it sounds like a duck, walks like a duck...anyone remember when modifieds were killing drivers? They redesigned the front clips. Cars got too stiff. Went back 10 years to what worked but didn't kill anyone.

I just remember what Dale Sr's car looked like after the wreck. Didn't look like much damage. The NASCAR report explained it fairly well. Time of deceleration was what killed him. Those of us that are critical of NASCAR's design just don't want to see a repeat of that tragedy. Or guys end up like Kurt/Dale Jr. That argument is frequently answered with the old, I don't care about others, they know what they signed up for. Seems awful cold. There was a story that Rusty looked at Dale's car after the wreck, went to shop and had "the spider" cut out of front of chassis. Spider being fairly small tubing that had been added over time to stiffen the chassis. Triangulation creates stiffness.

It's like Pro Football denialism. ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? Watching people permanently maim themselves & others sells really well. It's the society we live in. I don't have to like it so I just don't watch it. Watched very little Cup this season. But not much Busch or Truck either for that matter.
 

StandOnIt

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I used to teach out of that book above. It's a good book, you don't need any of the calc series level math to be able to solve problems.
 

AuzGrams

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My issue with some of this forums members is they refuse to even discuss the possibilities. "I/we" are not qualified to have an opinion. If you don't have PHD in metallurgy, you an idiot with a keyboard. It may surprise some that there ARE steps between those. Am I capable of designing a chassis by myself. Nope. Can't do the math. But much like the old, if it sounds like a duck, walks like a duck...anyone remember when modifieds were killing drivers? They redesigned the front clips. Cars got too stiff. Went back 10 years to what worked but didn't kill anyone.

I just remember what Dale Sr's car looked like after the wreck. Didn't look like much damage. The NASCAR report explained it fairly well. Time of deceleration was what killed him. Those of us that are critical of NASCAR's design just don't want to see a repeat of that tragedy. Or guys end up like Kurt/Dale Jr. That argument is frequently answered with the old, I don't care about others, they know what they signed up for. Seems awful cold. There was a story that Rusty looked at Dale's car after the wreck, went to shop and had "the spider" cut out of front of chassis. Spider being fairly small tubing that had been added over time to stiffen the chassis. Triangulation creates stiffness.

It's like Pro Football denialism. ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? Watching people permanently maim themselves & others sells really well. It's the society we live in. I don't have to like it so I just don't watch it. Watched very little Cup this season. But not much Busch or Truck either for that matter.

Then nope yourself out lol
 
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