Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by StandOnIt, Feb 19, 2019.
Hmmm. Pontiac maybe?
This clock started ticking the day the RTA was established, IMO. I believe the teams have been getting shafted by NASCAR and the track operators for a long time, and fundamental revision of how the money gets split is way overdue. Compared to every other segment of the industry, team ownership is high risk and low reward at best.
I realize some people think the RTA is the invention of the Devil, but I haven't seen any persuasive rationale to support this knee-jerk reaction.
Here’s what the Dodge Charger and Challenger looked like in 1983.
We’ve come a long way.
I agree. The teams still fund the vast majority of their operations through sponsorships, and tracks continue to invest in upgrades and renovations costing well into the millions as ISC and SMI continue to report healthy income. The turnover in inventory seems like it's going to be substantial and without some help financially I'm sure some of the teams, especially lower down the grid, won't make it through the transition. If NASCAR really does end up with every track under one roof at some point then there's only more reason for it to happen.
I believe you are talking about the Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2, which was Pontiac's answer to the 1986
Monte Carlo SS Aerocoupe . There were a couple teams that had some success with it, notably Blue Max with Rusty Wallace, (Rusty got his first few Cup wins in one) but man, that car car was PAINFULLY ugly. It ran in NASCAR from the start of the 1986 season through 1987. The cars did not sell well and were completely ignored by car collectors until recently, where their sheer rarity began moving prices a little, but they have about 1/50th the interest that the Monte Carlo SS's have.
Actually the SS Aerocoupe and the 2+2 Aerocoupe were GM's answer to the aerodynamically superior Ford Thunderbird. And thus began the Aero Wars.
Sidenote: Oldsmobile teams used a sloping rear window Delta 88 coupe in many races in that era.
eh, it was one of the chapters at any rate.
Josh Hamilton on reddit tonight...
A rather interesting, I guess, take on shifting towards high downforce for Gen 7. Anyone see the engineering races disappear yet this season?
On OEMs and HP:
Funny how they suddenly care about the engines being relevant to their real life counterparts. When the sport was booming, the engine in Dale Earnhardt's Lumina was a far cry from the 130 horsepower 3.1L V6 in the street car.
Are they going to start using engines that are more manufacturer specific, like IMSA?
Haha. Some of these comments are cringeworthy at this point. If the goal is to eliminate or de-emphasize engineering, you essentially need to go spec with the chassis and bodies. Which is kinda the direction they are heading in. But none of that applies to 2018 or 2019, with the cars still being built independently within tolerances. Adding a ton of downforce to the formula doesn't equalize anything on the engineering front.
Not even sure what else to say to this nonsense anymore. It's embarrassing.
Times change, and situations change. Sometimes overwhelming success can be somewhat of a hidden curse, because it cause you or allows you to ignore things that you SHOULD have been paying attention to. Twenty years ago, NASCAR was in a position to dictate the terms. Now, not so much. The manufacturers are demanding race cars that have more relevance to what they are selling as a condition to being involved, and NASCAR is in little position to argue. This is a discussion that should have been taking place more than twenty years ago, so that we didn't get where we are now, but back then, NOBODY wanted to hear it. As I said repeatedly, Robert Yates, one of the "kings" of horsepower, was advocating smaller, less powerful engines at least as far back as the mid-90's but nobody was listening. Back in the early 70's when car owners often drove their own cars, and you could run a successful team out of a an old two bay gas station, Big Bill France was able to tell the manufacturers "don't let the door hit you on the way out". Today, the landscape is totally different, and the manufacturers have made demands, for better worse.
To answer the question, yes, I think NASCAR will move to something similar to the IMSA engine model, and I for one think that makes perfect sense and is a move probably10-15 years overdue. Grand Am put on terrific prototype races with very tightly regulated production based V8 engines going back 2003, so the road map has been out there for a LONG time.
it been a pretty simple formula so far. Make the cars have less downforce, and the big teams spend millions trying to gain pounds more. The way it is now in some cases they are trying to loose some or figure out how to balance it. Passing has been overall better this year with good numbers in the pack and for the leaders. I have a pretty good idea in the future 21 car they will go with the balance of performance formulas for the individual cars and probably have as many standardized parts as possible to help with the costs. IRS is almost a given and they will have a HP mark that the OEMS can achieve easily. I do wonder if it will become a clonish GT sports car IMSA like series.
Right. It’s why I laugh at so many people mad
about this package. While that spoiler could probably be a tad smaller, last year was very obvious with how much better the top 5 were over the rest of the sport. And even then Penske didn’t get going until the 2nd half of the season
This article is from a couple weeks back and features quotes from Ford Performance global director Mark Rushbrook regarding Ford's desires for the Gen 7 car. Heavy on street relevance, he mentions rack and pinion steering, IRS, closer body resemblance, and the dreaded H word (!). Not for 2021 or 2022, but this implies that Ford wants a move to hybrid engines down the line. Honestly that seems like a no-brainer from their perspective, as their entire fleet will be that before Gen 7 has run its course.
We get a bit of a glimpse of the Gen 7 car at the All Star Race coming up. Nothing from the article above are earth shaking IMO. Rack n pinion steering, independent rear suspension. Probably the biggest change is to try to make the cars more life like, but the Camaro and the Mustang aren't really that far off.
The All-Star Race will introduce Gen 7 parts such as a single-piece carbon fibre splitter at the front for stability, and radiator parts that exit through the bonnet instead of the engine, improving engine cooling.
Lol can’t we say hood instead of bonnet
Look at possible vents used for 2019 ASR to be testing for Gen 7 model
Ironically, David Wilson asked the question, "Why can't we have the number of manufacturers in NASCAR as we do GTD class in IMSA?"
That question is utter nonsense. One is a third rate participation series; the other is a top level destination series. Pyramids are always wider at the base than at the peak. And what it takes to compete at the base of the pyramid bears no resemblance to what's required at the peak. David Wilson knows this. He's talking trash.
So you're saying we can't have four or five manufacturers in Cup?
You may get 4 or 5 but they won't last because they want to be winners and wins are just to hard to come by. Lots of makes in the old days but those were drivers cars not manufacturers.
Separate names with a comma.