'21 Generation 7 Car news

Formerjackman said:
All I would say is it is AWFULLY late in the game to be doing ANY kind of crash testing and critically late if there is actually anything that would need to be changed. This car should have been locked up and set in stone six months ago MINIMUM, probably longer.
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Is it really critically late? As far as I know no has received any chassis yet, so you don't have to have them brought back and modified. IF the car failed some tests it's not like it's going to be a complete redesign, it most likely going to adding a bar or changing some configurations. I doubt they have any bodies mounted so these modifications would be relatively simple. As long as everyone gets them at the same time it doesn't really matter when distribution occurs.

Once again until more data comes out public we have no idea if or what failed and if something did fail was the load needed to create failure considered acceptable? If you apply a big enough force to anything it will fail, just was that force needed for failure realistic in real world conditions?
 
wi_racefan said:
Is it really critically late? As far as I know no has received any chassis yet, so you don't have to have them brought back and modified. IF the car failed some tests it's not like it's going to be a complete redesign, it most likely going to adding a bar or changing some configurations. I doubt they have any bodies mounted so these modifications would be relatively simple. As long as everyone gets them at the same time it doesn't really matter when distribution occurs.

Once again until more data comes out public we have no idea if or what failed and if something did fail was the load needed to create failure considered acceptable? If you apply a big enough force to anything it will fail, just was that force needed for failure realistic in real world conditions?
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This last test was with a real car. They wrecked the heck out of it, and sent the dummy to the Dr. who examined Sr after the wreck along with other experts in the field

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Formerjackman said:
All I would say is it is AWFULLY late in the game to be doing ANY kind of crash testing and critically late if there is actually anything that would need to be changed. This car should have been locked up and set in stone six months ago MINIMUM, probably longer.
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Exactly this. The fact that there's a sole supplier who has to deliver a fleet of chassis' to the teams within a few months and now they still don't even have a current revision to build them too is pretty insane. It is a LOT of fab work ahead of them and one would think the final revision should have been set in stone by now. They could run into lead time issues to get new materials now too if any of the materials need to be changed in order to meet the safety goals.
 
• Officials anticipate having two rules packages with the Next Gen car — a low-downforce, low-drag, high-horsepower package for short tracks and road courses, and also a high-downforce, lower horsepower package for intermediate-sized tracks (1.5 miles) and longer. Target horsepower figures for the rules packages are still being determined.
 
StandOnIt said:
• Officials anticipate having two rules packages with the Next Gen car — a low-downforce, low-drag, high-horsepower package for short tracks and road courses, and also a high-downforce, lower horsepower package for intermediate-sized tracks (1.5 miles) and longer. Target horsepower figures for the rules packages are still being determined.
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I thought the next-gen car was supposed to be one package all season long? I can't stand this high downforce-low HP stuff.
 
@Dr_B_UNC to your point about teams having concerns about the supply chain, and apparently BBS not being able to keep up with wheel production, this is the risk of having sole suppliers for all of these parts. Everything from the parts list I saw had exactly one producer linked to it. Springs, shocks, controls arms, the chassis, brakes... everything. What happens if any of these suppliers have a major issue that delays production? What if there's a defect found in a large lot of parts that creates a shortage? All of these parts are consumable and need regular replacement, so if the shock factory has a hiccup and the teams aren't allowed to touch them to rebuild the ones they already have in the shop then what are these teams going to do?

I'm certain that NASCAR has vetted the suppliers and raised that concern, but it's concerning when all the eggs are in one basket and you're dealing with very large quantities of new parts that have not been tested in actual running conditions yet.
 
cheesepuffs said:
@Dr_B_UNC to your point about teams having concerns about the supply chain, and apparently BBS not being able to keep up with wheel production, this is the risk of having sole suppliers for all of these parts. Everything from the parts list I saw had exactly one producer linked to it. Springs, shocks, controls arms, the chassis, brakes... everything. What happens if any of these suppliers have a major issue that delays production? What if there's a defect found in a large lot of parts that creates a shortage? All of these parts are consumable and need regular replacement, so if the shock factory has a hiccup and the teams aren't allowed to touch them to rebuild the ones they already have in the shop then what are these teams going to do?

I'm certain that NASCAR has vetted the suppliers and raised that concern, but it's concerning when all the eggs are in one basket and you're dealing with very large quantities of new parts that have not been tested in actual running conditions yet.
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automakers have been using single source suppliers for years and so has the rest of the world.
 
If I’m a team owner, I don’t trust NASCAR as far as I can throw them to give truly equal parts to every buyer.
 
aunty dive said:
I'm a facts, logic and science guy.
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I love people like this.

The best part this is that “facts” always change when more information comes out about a topic. So establishing a hardline opinion about a fresh take is impossible. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

Also, just on the science part, if science can’t be challenged, then it’s not science. It’s an arguable point that there is no such thing as “facts” or “proof” in science.
 
StandOnIt said:
automakers have been using single source suppliers for years and so has the rest of the world.
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Single source is inherently more risky than diversifying your supply chain. I understand why they went that route, being that its basically a spec series now and you want the teams to feel assured that all parts are being made equal, but diversifying supply chains has also been a topic in manufacturing for years.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
If I’m a team owner, I don’t trust NASCAR as far as I can throw them to give truly equal parts to every buyer.
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The problem is going to be that there is a tolerance band on all dimensions of all parts that are manufactured. So, what tends to happen in a spec series, even super low budget series' like Spec Miata, is that people buy several examples of one component, measure them all, and then choose the best one to actually use. In Spec Miata for example the engines basically have to be factory stock, but what people do is buy several used engines, take them all apart, measure the cams, measure the CC of the combustion chambers, measure the cylinder bores and piston diameters, and then put together one "perfect" engine using all the best parts together that measured the most favorably. So now yeah, it's still a stock Miata engine that isn't worth much, but it took five engines to build that one prime example.

The teams will likely do the same thing. They're not going to throw away their shock dynos just because they can't build their own shocks anymore. They're going to buy a giant batch of the spec shocks and dyno them all and choose the ones they like best, because shocks even of the same part number still have variation. A spec control arm may offer a little more camber than another spec control arm even though they were both made to the same print because there's definitely going to be a tolerance zone. And that tolerance zons might be really small, but you can bet that the big teams are willing to sift through this stuff for even that tin advantage when that can be the difference between 1st or 2nd place.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I love people like this.

The best part this is that “facts” always change when more information comes out about a topic. So establishing a hardline opinion about a fresh take is impossible. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

Also, just on the science part, if science can’t be challenged, then it’s not science. It’s an arguable point that there is no such thing as “facts” or “proof” in science.
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People like this?

As factual information becomes available, people like me will be better able to understand whether or not Bozi’s rumor is real or imagined. At this point, I haven’t formed an opinion.

In this case, science is being challenged right now.
 
cheesepuffs said:
They're going to buy a giant batch of the spec shocks and dyno them all and choose the ones they like best,
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That's easy enough to stop, if NASCAR's interested in doing so. Instead of teams buying directly from the manufacturers, NASCAR could buy them and then sell them to the teams in limited quantities.
 
My thoughts
based on prior comments

future NASCAR
teams show up at track
car is waiting for them in their pit stall
slap some decals on them
Practice, qualify and race same day

end result driver skill is marketed

This seems so familiar
like it’s been tried before
nahhhh
 
I see both sides of this. I don’t doubt there is inherit agenda within the garage area to try to smear the Next Gen platform. Likely due to aversion to the wholesale changes to the supply chain and the ceding of internal control over the building process. Not to mention chassis builders and engineers being put out or work due to these changes. Like I said in the Atlanta repave thread, sometimes NASCAR simply has to ignore driver/team opinions on potential industry changes. While they certainly have a poor track record of decision making, there is a varying difference in what drivers think is good racing, and what will actually put eyeballs on the sport.

For those reasons, I also don’t find it far fetched that NASCAR would put out a gag order on any concerns or perceived criticism of their precious Next Gen car. They have staked the future of the industry and sanctioning body on it. Next Gen HAS to work. Everything depends on it. Too much at stake for them to fail at this juncture. Hence the lack of transparency.

From the jump, everything about the development of this product has felt forced and rushed. I just hope pushing forward in the face of corporate pressure like they are doesn’t result in yet another poorly designed race vehicle. Much less the tragedy and PR crisis that would result from negligence of safety.
 
I'm not worried about the crash thing, there isn't any reliable information and if there was, problems like that are easily fixed. What I don't think they have any reliable data on is how is the car going to behave in traffic under race conditions. Nobody is going to know much about that until it happens.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That's working out pretty well for computer chips these days.
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Exactly!
I never imagined that my 2020 F350 which stickered at 69,065 would have a median KBB value of 75,000 one year and 2,500 miles later!
Maybe an investment in spec parts wouldn't be a bad idea............
 
gnomesayin said:
Is there a Checkered Flag thread for the dummy so that I can pay my respects?
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Noted NASCAR enthusiast / supporter Bob Leavine covered the funeral expenses.

”As NASCAR started crash testing the Next Gen car, rumors -- spurred in part by former car owner Bob Leavine and crew chiefing great Steve Hmiel -- suggested that the crash test dummy used by NASCAR keeps getting "killed" during sled tests, and that the Next Gen car is too rigid/has too few crush zones to dissipate the force of an impact away from the driver.”

www.cbssports.com

Explaining the alleged safety concerns surrounding NASCAR's Next Gen car

NASCAR made a memo public on Friday that concerns a Next Gen car crash test last week at Talladega Superspeedway
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com

 
Cup cars at Atlanta will have a sticker on the C-pillar celebrating the contributions generations of test dummies have made to the sport. All the drivers are going to autograph Daniel Suarez' race-worn 'Day of the Dead' helmet, which will be auctioned online. Proceeds will go to scholarships so aspiring young dummies can prepare for careers in motorsport safety testing.
 
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aunty dive said:
Noted NASCAR enthusiast / supporter Bob Leavine covered the funeral expenses.

”As NASCAR started crash testing the Next Gen car, rumors -- spurred in part by former car owner Bob Leavine and crew chiefing great Steve Hmiel -- suggested that the crash test dummy used by NASCAR keeps getting "killed" during sled tests, and that the Next Gen car is too rigid/has too few crush zones to dissipate the force of an impact away from the driver.”

www.cbssports.com

Explaining the alleged safety concerns surrounding NASCAR's Next Gen car

NASCAR made a memo public on Friday that concerns a Next Gen car crash test last week at Talladega Superspeedway
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com

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I posted that memo a few threads back, but we have some conspiricy theorists that think everything Nascar says is fake news and instead listen to a disgruntled former car owner, a guy that uses his wife''s twitter account, and various uneducated driver's opinions as the truth.
 
KTMLew01 said:
The cars have a removeable bolt-on front and rear clip. Any crash worthiness will be built into these two items. The exhaust deal, dumb. There was a reason they were running it out the RH side. But am concerned about the pushrods.
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Rumor has it they're going to two-strokes for the '23 season so no more pushrod concerns. You heard it here first.
 

NASCAR awaits final sign-off of crash results on Next Gen car​

Independent panel to review

Probst indicated all of the testing data was being sent to an independent panel in the biomechanics/safety field for review, which should be completed by next week.

Should NASCAR get the final OK from the panel, teams would begin receiving Next Gen chassis and parts – currently held at the NASCAR R&D Center in Concord, N.C. – soon after.

www.motorsport.com

NASCAR awaits final sign-off of crash results on Next Gen car

www.motorsport.com www.motorsport.com
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
If I’m a team owner, I don’t trust NASCAR as far as I can throw them to give truly equal parts to every buyer.
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... This is why they have the vendors take care of what they need to take care of.

2020 did not help, 2021 is a game a catch-up with everyone.
 
Freddie Kraft said that if the car is ran next season, it would be part time.

For anyone interested in Freddie’s credentials, he is the Cup spotter for the #23 team.

Stuff like this is so hard to believe IMO because of the heavy promotion of this car so far. Although, to be fair, the development process of the COT was fully transparent.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Freddie Kraft said that if the car is ran next season, it would be part time.

For anyone interested in Freddie’s credentials, he is the Cup spotter for the #23 team.

Stuff like this is so hard to believe IMO because of the heavy promotion of this car so far. Although, to be fair, the development process of the COT was fully transparent.
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When did he say this....and where?
 
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